Significance of track layout in SX, huge!

Darryl916
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Edited Date/Time 1/5/2015 4:24pm
I'm coming to think track layout is the single biggest contributor to the results of the nights show. A "basic" layout like we had this past weekend in Anaheim resulted in very similar lap times thru the entire field with no option to assume more risk to make up any time. Holeshot wins it. Everyone races around in a line. Passes only happen if you run it in and punt someone over the berm.

There is always the topic of slowing the tracks down, keeping the racers closer to the ground, safer, etc. Then there is the complaints of boring racing because nobody can get a leg up on anyone else. The way the track builders decide to set up the track in a lot of ways manipulates the entire experience.


With that said, what do you guys think is better overall?


-Fast, easy, somewhat safe tracks where people are running it in to make passes or otherwise depending solely on a start (often luck) as an advantage?

or

-Big, gnarly, sketchy, one mistake you die, triple-quad-triple rhythm sections, where a top guy can get a bad start and charge thru the pack passing fools in wholesale and a second tier guy with big balls can have a spectacular night if he's feeling good and pulls the trigger on the big boy options? Downside is hero to zero in milliseconds.



So, huge jumps and wad-ups or bumper cars in the turns?

Discuss....



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FLmxer
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1/5/2015 7:15am
Just copy the tracks from the eighties, that will toughen up these y2k sissies. I kid but seriously of course.
bama205
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1/5/2015 7:19am
" Discuss... "

Loser
Jimfunn
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1/5/2015 7:21am
FLmxer wrote:
Just copy the tracks from the eighties, that will toughen up these y2k sissies. I kid but seriously of course.
I don't remember the 80's but would love to see them do something completely different. A water splash, a few flat straights, any thing just something different!

The Shop

jamma10
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1/5/2015 7:44am Edited Date/Time 1/5/2015 7:45am
I dont think we need 'Big, gnarly, sketchy, one mistake you die' type of tracks, but I think they could try and be a bit more creative with some of the obstacles. I'd like to see them build stuff like two tiered corners with different line choices or use more individual obstacles instead of numerous rhythm sections that regulate everyones speed.
1/5/2015 7:50am
Easy! The tracks need to be wider for better racing!
More sand corners as well. Wink
mrquick
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1/5/2015 7:54am
Canard came from 14th to 3rd (almost 2nd) and never touched anyone. When you're "Trey" good you don't have to take people out to advance.
Darryl916
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1/5/2015 8:05am
mrquick wrote:
Canard came from 14th to 3rd (almost 2nd) and never touched anyone. When you're "Trey" good you don't have to take people out to advance.
That's actually a good point. You think maybe the track being too simple was an excuse for some?
rosebud441
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1/5/2015 8:08am
Track looked super skinny to me... I almost fell asleep
mauidex
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1/5/2015 8:10am
same track for everyone........................just like same gate drop for everyone...........why it is called racing.............that day/night whoever rode the best wins...........alessi got the holeshot finished 8 or 9....................like quik just saidf trey started 14 got 3rd..................dungey basically stayed where he started....................
rcannon
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1/5/2015 8:11am
I would rather see something more technical . I remember one of t e Supercross races held in Salt Lake, We happened to be sitting right in front if this "s" turn that kept changing. It was very poorly designed and built. The mud and snow was an added attraction. Watching Kevin Whindham take this section apart was probably as impressive as the entire race. Everyone out there was fast, but his riding skills were at a higher level than anyone, that night.

The less technical tracks give the illusion that everyone is as good as everyone else, and I dont think thats what racing should be like. Thats a Monster Truck show.
steveada
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1/5/2015 8:13am
I still think the main issue is parity between riders. Even at A1, faster riders were passing slower riders. Passes were being made throughout the races. However, if you are only 0.1 sec a lap faster on your very best lap than the guys in front of you, unless they make a mistake or pull over to let you by, it doesn't matter what track you are riding, you will have a tough time getting by them.
mx836
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1/5/2015 8:26am
mrquick wrote:
Canard came from 14th to 3rd (almost 2nd) and never touched anyone. When you're "Trey" good you don't have to take people out to advance.
Canard started in 8th. Go back and watch. 8th after the pack thinned out a little a couple corners in and 8th at the end of lap one. You've gotta be the tenth person I've seen trying to claim he passed 11 guys. It was 5.
1/5/2015 8:39am
FLmxer wrote:
Just copy the tracks from the eighties, that will toughen up these y2k sissies. I kid but seriously of course.
I think they should bring back the 70s & 80s style tracks, slow the racing down, get rid of the ''Big, gnarly, sketchy, one mistake you die, triple-quad-triple rhythm sections'' and replace it with smaller more technical stuff that is almost impossible to rhythm or do perfectly every lap, even by the very best, like old school outdoor Motocross, which in the beginning is what they were trying to do with Supercross, Bring the outdoor Motocross experience into a stadium for the ease and enjoyment of the spectator.
nytsmaC
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1/5/2015 8:40am
bama205 wrote:
" Discuss... "

Loser
Darryl916 wrote:
Care to elaborate on that?
Don't hold your breath. Judging by his drive-by rebuttal he probably didn't have the attention span to even read your post, just the title.
RMT
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1/5/2015 8:45am
Let's not lose sight of this being the first round. We don't want a bunch of guys hurt and out before the series gets going so the first couple of tracks might be a little tame. Let's look back after round 5 with a little better perspective and see where we are. Remember, Dirt Wurx have been building these tracks for a long time and they will step it up as we go.
Micahdogg
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1/5/2015 8:54am
The biggest problem with modern Supercross is the 450F. No matter what track designers do to make racing slower, more technical and more competitive, you still have a bike with a bazillion horsepower that a rider can whiskey throttle and clear everything. That is the problem.

Jesse Nelson ran a mid 55 lap time at A1. Only 3 guys in the 450 class were in the 55's. Its painful to watch the 450F undo everything that was great about Supercross (and bankrupt OEM's and the teams in the process). So that is my take. Bring back the "not insano horsepower" two strokes that people actually had to have skill to ride and you'll see way better racing no matter what the track looks like.
Camp332
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1/5/2015 9:07am
Micahdogg wrote:
The biggest problem with modern Supercross is the 450F. No matter what track designers do to make racing slower, more technical and more competitive, you still...
The biggest problem with modern Supercross is the 450F. No matter what track designers do to make racing slower, more technical and more competitive, you still have a bike with a bazillion horsepower that a rider can whiskey throttle and clear everything. That is the problem.

Jesse Nelson ran a mid 55 lap time at A1. Only 3 guys in the 450 class were in the 55's. Its painful to watch the 450F undo everything that was great about Supercross (and bankrupt OEM's and the teams in the process). So that is my take. Bring back the "not insano horsepower" two strokes that people actually had to have skill to ride and you'll see way better racing no matter what the track looks like.
^ Damn those 4-strokes! ^
RbR
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1/5/2015 10:05am
Without James to lead the way, no one is going to hit the quadtripletable ... just so sad. True Story.



Darryl916
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1/5/2015 10:10am
RbR wrote:
Without James to lead the way, no one is going to hit the quadtripletable ... just so sad. True Story. [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2015/01/05/76054/s1200_A1_Quadtripletable.jpg[/img]
Without James to lead the way, no one is going to hit the quadtripletable ... just so sad. True Story.



Brayton was hitting some big rhythms last year too in the early season when he was "on".
iBobbyb
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1/5/2015 10:13am Edited Date/Time 1/5/2015 10:15am
Toronto last year was sick. it separated the men from the boys for sure. or should i say "man" since it just separated js7 from everyone. you could make a debate for rv2 being sick. but still, no other rider was even close to his level on that tough technical track.

but this was just A1. im sure there will be some good tracks and good racing to come.
ridge
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1/5/2015 10:14am
steveada wrote:
I still think the main issue is parity between riders. Even at A1, faster riders were passing slower riders. Passes were being made throughout the races...
I still think the main issue is parity between riders. Even at A1, faster riders were passing slower riders. Passes were being made throughout the races. However, if you are only 0.1 sec a lap faster on your very best lap than the guys in front of you, unless they make a mistake or pull over to let you by, it doesn't matter what track you are riding, you will have a tough time getting by them.
If the track were made differently, then a rider who is .1 faster than the guy in front of him could take a risk and make a pass.

When everyone is doing the same exact jump combos, what's the faster guy supposed to do, jump faster? He can't over jump...

At A1, there was only one place where a rider could hold it on longer and pass...that was the sand section. It was great in the heat race (Canard's pass on Millsaps) because both lines were pretty equal, but the track prep before the main took that option away.
Flesh206
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1/5/2015 10:20am Edited Date/Time 1/5/2015 10:21am
I think it's more of a Feld thing with the track design. Ease everyone into the series without getting hurt...no big names NO ticket sales. I will get tougher as the rounds tic on.
1/5/2015 10:25am
More over unders. Dont that it will help but I like em lol

The sand section at A1 was awesome.

But since Windham is not doing transfers this year let bubba come out and put down a few insane fast laps to show the other riders where the options are.
Darryl916
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1/5/2015 10:27am
iBobbyb wrote:
Toronto last year was sick. it separated the men from the boys for sure. or should i say "man" since it just separated js7 from everyone...
Toronto last year was sick. it separated the men from the boys for sure. or should i say "man" since it just separated js7 from everyone. you could make a debate for rv2 being sick. but still, no other rider was even close to his level on that tough technical track.

but this was just A1. im sure there will be some good tracks and good racing to come.
Good call


seth505
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1/5/2015 10:30am
mrquick wrote:
Canard came from 14th to 3rd (almost 2nd) and never touched anyone. When you're "Trey" good you don't have to take people out to advance.
mx836 wrote:
Canard started in 8th. Go back and watch. 8th after the pack thinned out a little a couple corners in and 8th at the end of...
Canard started in 8th. Go back and watch. 8th after the pack thinned out a little a couple corners in and 8th at the end of lap one. You've gotta be the tenth person I've seen trying to claim he passed 11 guys. It was 5.
Maybe he's mixing up Trey and BamBam, Barcia went from 14th or so to 6th.
brimx153
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1/5/2015 10:30am
Just make a track you can pass on .inside and outside line in turns , nearly all 180 turns , no 90 .the problem. With the track was it was to one lined .not that it was easy or hard
rcannon
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1/5/2015 10:37am
RMT wrote:
Let's not lose sight of this being the first round. We don't want a bunch of guys hurt and out before the series gets going so...
Let's not lose sight of this being the first round. We don't want a bunch of guys hurt and out before the series gets going so the first couple of tracks might be a little tame. Let's look back after round 5 with a little better perspective and see where we are. Remember, Dirt Wurx have been building these tracks for a long time and they will step it up as we go.
This idea sounds reasonable, but what about the 250 east coast riders? We start the 250 west guys on the "easier" tracks, but not the east guys???

If anyone might benefit from an easier track, it would have to be the 250 class, and this current plan does not include half of them. I've not seen them go back to easy tracks when the series heads that direction.

The entire sport is this way and they do a lot of things simply because 'they've always done it that way....." and soemhow the result , this year, will be different than in the years past.

I think the first thing they could concentrate on is a way to answer the question "who won" without having to ask a follow up question.

j100
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1/5/2015 10:39am
Zach Bell came from 12th to 3rd in his heat race and 21st to 11th in the main.

you could triple - triple the rhythm after the start or go 1-2-3 or 2-2-2 so the track had lines.

I think the from the sand section all the way to the finish line is where all the time was made up or lost.
Kawirider
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1/5/2015 10:58am
It was the first round of the 15 season chill out! Why would they make the first round a very technical track and get riders hurt at the first round, give it some time.

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