Show us a Pro rider’s contract.

Thisusernameisavailable
Edited Date/Time 5/3/2022 4:24am
BLOCK out all names.
BLOCK out the manufacturer’s name.
BLOCK out the financial figures.

What could it hurt?

It’ll be interesting.

Someone here has the ability to do so, let’s see it.
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Melicar
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Melicar 5/2/2022 9:51am
5/2/2022 9:51am
Already been done. It's here somewhere, I seent it!
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Richy
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Richy 5/2/2022 9:54am
5/2/2022 9:54am
Would be cool to see, out of total idle curiousity only.

Melicar, if you stumble across it again or remember the title name post it up man 👍
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Kyle978
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Kyle978 5/2/2022 9:58am
5/2/2022 9:58am
LOL - what is the upside to this for the person providing the info?
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aeffertz
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aeffertz 5/2/2022 10:00am
5/2/2022 10:00am
Richy wrote:
Would be cool to see, out of total idle curiousity only. Melicar, if you stumble across it again or remember the title name post it up...
Would be cool to see, out of total idle curiousity only.

Melicar, if you stumble across it again or remember the title name post it up man 👍
If I remember correctly, it was Forkners PC contract but it was quickly deleted. I’m sure there’s a few people who saved the pic, though.
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Kyle978
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Kyle978 5/2/2022 10:19am
5/2/2022 10:19am
Thisusernameisavailable wrote:
What is the down-side?
Seems like a pretty quick way to get outside the circle of trust in a very small industry.
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BMc914
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BMc914 5/2/2022 10:25am
5/2/2022 10:25am
Thisusernameisavailable wrote:
What is the down-side?
Kyle978 wrote:
Seems like a pretty quick way to get outside the circle of trust in a very small industry.
Why? Most professional sports the contract is public knowledge. Watch one night of sportscenter and you will see some one signed new contract and the years the amount. If you do more research you can find all the incentives in them as well. Transparency can help a sport. Moto sometimes is to "private" which can hurt the sport.
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tek14
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tek14 5/2/2022 10:26am
5/2/2022 10:26am
Would be nice to see what options there are.
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FIREfish148
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FIREfish148 5/2/2022 10:26am
5/2/2022 10:26am
That’s highly proprietary information…. Good luck though.
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profeshenal125 5/2/2022 10:33am
5/2/2022 10:33am
A contract is just numerous pages of legal stuff maybe not so legal if your a w2 worker. Riders r independent contractors. I signed 3 contracts as a o/o this yr stuff like 2k fine for being put out of service for equipment violations which is illegal. If I say this is a equipment violation and they won’t do repairs, I get a fine. I know it would suck to b stuck in a contract if the team couldn’t get the bike to handle right. And your not allowed to say it’s the bike that sucks and not the rider. Or you hv to use this engine when you had 1 built that is much stronger but your not allowed to race it for wins. There engine is only good for a 5th. Bottom line you sign the contract and try to make every dollar you can.
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Kyle978
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Kyle978 5/2/2022 10:34am
5/2/2022 10:34am
BMc914 wrote:
Why? Most professional sports the contract is public knowledge. Watch one night of sportscenter and you will see some one signed new contract and the years...
Why? Most professional sports the contract is public knowledge. Watch one night of sportscenter and you will see some one signed new contract and the years the amount. If you do more research you can find all the incentives in them as well. Transparency can help a sport. Moto sometimes is to "private" which can hurt the sport.
But this is MX/SX, not other sports.

Whether you agree or not, that information is held very closely in this sport. It would be pretty dumb for someone to risk their position to please some Vital members who are just going to shit all over it anyway.
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soggy
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soggy 5/2/2022 10:37am
5/2/2022 10:37am
If riders had a union we would get contract details more easily. But they don’t and probably never will. I think they should though.
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Mr. Afterbar
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Mr. Afterbar 5/2/2022 10:39am
5/2/2022 10:39am
What is it that you're hoping to see in the contracts? Pay, stipulations, etc.?
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JazzyJJ
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JazzyJJ 5/2/2022 10:41am
5/2/2022 10:41am
BMc914 wrote:
Why? Most professional sports the contract is public knowledge. Watch one night of sportscenter and you will see some one signed new contract and the years...
Why? Most professional sports the contract is public knowledge. Watch one night of sportscenter and you will see some one signed new contract and the years the amount. If you do more research you can find all the incentives in them as well. Transparency can help a sport. Moto sometimes is to "private" which can hurt the sport.
Kyle978 wrote:
But this is MX/SX, not other sports. Whether you agree or not, that information is held very closely in this sport. It would be pretty dumb...
But this is MX/SX, not other sports.

Whether you agree or not, that information is held very closely in this sport. It would be pretty dumb for someone to risk their position to please some Vital members who are just going to shit all over it anyway.
And keeping things secret does nothing but hinder everyone involved. This same thing happens in cycling, where "pro" US riders(pro conti teams) can make nothing or small sums in the 20-40k/year range, but they don't talk about it because they don't want to admit it.

How many parents are mortgaging their house for the 3rd time to get 9 year old timmy to LLs this year? Maybe if they knew the realities that there are probably 75 riders in the US making a decent living wage off of racing MX, they reconsider. Maybe they don't, but I fail to see how more information is a detriment.
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UpTiTe
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UpTiTe 5/2/2022 10:46am
5/2/2022 10:46am
I’ve seen amateur and professional ones, they’re nothing to look at.

They’re just like any other contract, pages of what they will provide, what the rider will provide, what they can and cannot do, bonus structure and pay structure. There’s a bit more, but that’s pretty much it.
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Thisusernameisavailable 5/2/2022 10:50am
5/2/2022 10:50am
Mr. Afterbar wrote:
What is it that you're hoping to see in the contracts? Pay, stipulations, etc.?
After reading the other thread about Webb sitting out this summer and whether he’s getting paid or not, I thought it was quite interesting wondering what kind of stipulations a manufacturer might put in regarding these sorts of scenarios.

Nothing more than interest and hoping good conversation.👍🏻
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UpTiTe
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UpTiTe 5/2/2022 10:52am
5/2/2022 10:52am
BMc914 wrote:
Why? Most professional sports the contract is public knowledge. Watch one night of sportscenter and you will see some one signed new contract and the years...
Why? Most professional sports the contract is public knowledge. Watch one night of sportscenter and you will see some one signed new contract and the years the amount. If you do more research you can find all the incentives in them as well. Transparency can help a sport. Moto sometimes is to "private" which can hurt the sport.
Kyle978 wrote:
But this is MX/SX, not other sports. Whether you agree or not, that information is held very closely in this sport. It would be pretty dumb...
But this is MX/SX, not other sports.

Whether you agree or not, that information is held very closely in this sport. It would be pretty dumb for someone to risk their position to please some Vital members who are just going to shit all over it anyway.
It’s always been this way, and honestly I don’t get it. All the teams know who pays what, because they negotiate with the same managers, it’s stupid that’s it so super secret.
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Thisusernameisavailable 5/2/2022 10:54am
5/2/2022 10:54am
UpTiTe wrote:
I’ve seen amateur and professional ones, they’re nothing to look at. They’re just like any other contract, pages of what they will provide, what the rider...
I’ve seen amateur and professional ones, they’re nothing to look at.

They’re just like any other contract, pages of what they will provide, what the rider will provide, what they can and cannot do, bonus structure and pay structure. There’s a bit more, but that’s pretty much it.
So far this year we’ve seen Kenny step away, not claiming any particular injury, just burn-out, or tiredness.
Now we’re seeing a Webb sit out without claiming any specific injuries.

Why does their boss allow this?
Do they get paid? Even a percentage?
Do they have to pay any back?
Do they need a Doctors note?

This sort of stuff is interesting.
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UpTiTe
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UpTiTe 5/2/2022 10:57am
5/2/2022 10:57am
Mr. Afterbar wrote:
What is it that you're hoping to see in the contracts? Pay, stipulations, etc.?
Thisusernameisavailable wrote:
After reading the other thread about Webb sitting out this summer and whether he’s getting paid or not, I thought it was quite interesting wondering what...
After reading the other thread about Webb sitting out this summer and whether he’s getting paid or not, I thought it was quite interesting wondering what kind of stipulations a manufacturer might put in regarding these sorts of scenarios.

Nothing more than interest and hoping good conversation.👍🏻
Webb has great bargaining power, so if he’s injured he’s probably getting paid. If he’s not injured, I’d bet he’s taking a huge hit.

Guys with less bargaining power will take a hit for missing races while they are injured.
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profeshenal125 5/2/2022 10:59am
5/2/2022 10:59am
What is a good website to make a contract ? I,m going to use my buisness as a leasing equipment co to sign a rider , myself. Bonus structure maybe 1,000 for a win. The bonus money comes out of my buisness checking account. The leasing co will b required to pay for my insurance, gas, race fuel, special equipment, merchandise tshirts and posters, etc.
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LungButter
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LungButter 5/2/2022 11:00am
5/2/2022 11:00am
JazzyJJ wrote:
And keeping things secret does nothing but hinder everyone involved. This same thing happens in cycling, where "pro" US riders(pro conti teams) can make nothing or...
And keeping things secret does nothing but hinder everyone involved. This same thing happens in cycling, where "pro" US riders(pro conti teams) can make nothing or small sums in the 20-40k/year range, but they don't talk about it because they don't want to admit it.

How many parents are mortgaging their house for the 3rd time to get 9 year old timmy to LLs this year? Maybe if they knew the realities that there are probably 75 riders in the US making a decent living wage off of racing MX, they reconsider. Maybe they don't, but I fail to see how more information is a detriment.
75 might be a stretch.... unless you are counting guys on Factory Contracts for off road as well.
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thewrizzle
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thewrizzle 5/2/2022 11:05am
5/2/2022 11:05am
BMc914 wrote:
Why? Most professional sports the contract is public knowledge. Watch one night of sportscenter and you will see some one signed new contract and the years...
Why? Most professional sports the contract is public knowledge. Watch one night of sportscenter and you will see some one signed new contract and the years the amount. If you do more research you can find all the incentives in them as well. Transparency can help a sport. Moto sometimes is to "private" which can hurt the sport.
Kyle978 wrote:
But this is MX/SX, not other sports. Whether you agree or not, that information is held very closely in this sport. It would be pretty dumb...
But this is MX/SX, not other sports.

Whether you agree or not, that information is held very closely in this sport. It would be pretty dumb for someone to risk their position to please some Vital members who are just going to shit all over it anyway.
UpTiTe wrote:
It’s always been this way, and honestly I don’t get it. All the teams know who pays what, because they negotiate with the same managers, it’s...
It’s always been this way, and honestly I don’t get it. All the teams know who pays what, because they negotiate with the same managers, it’s stupid that’s it so super secret.
It’s 100% union related. The sports that are unionized have to share figures, just like any other union.
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UpTiTe
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UpTiTe 5/2/2022 11:08am
5/2/2022 11:08am
Thisusernameisavailable wrote:
So far this year we’ve seen Kenny step away, not claiming any particular injury, just burn-out, or tiredness. Now we’re seeing a Webb sit out without...
So far this year we’ve seen Kenny step away, not claiming any particular injury, just burn-out, or tiredness.
Now we’re seeing a Webb sit out without claiming any specific injuries.

Why does their boss allow this?
Do they get paid? Even a percentage?
Do they have to pay any back?
Do they need a Doctors note?

This sort of stuff is interesting.
Why does their boss allow this? Kenny, they had no choice, he caught Covid and had a serious bout with it and went back to Germany to get his body right. Honestly, I think he went there to get treatment he can’t get here.

Webb, I can’t begin to tell you why he is taking time off, or why they are letting him. My guess is both sides are frustrated and he wants to go clear his head.


Do they get paid? Even a percentage? Depends on the contract, some guys get nothing, some guys get a percentage, most top guys get payed full.

Do they have to pay any back? No, they are paid each month a negotiated amount. If they get hurt, the pay is adjusted.

Do they need a Doctors note? Yes.
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