Should Vintage Class Be 2 Stroke Only?

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10/11/2017 10:57 AM

I don't know where you all are from but in D17 the Vintage class is 8 years or older. I believe that's an alright age but at some point we are going to start reaching into efi 4 strokes. The last time I raced Vintage in '13 was on a 2000 CR250 and half of the dudes with me were on 04 -05 450s and 250fs. I still won so ,no that's not why I am talking about this. I just want to hear other guys opinions that like to race vintage for fun on older 2 strokes and do you think there should be a year limit on the Vintage class? A guy can go out on an 07 YZ250 that is essentially the same as a 2018 and its excepted. My local moto club presents rule change ideas to the District every year and before I mention anything I want to feel my fellow Vitards out. Thanks

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Vital news is 100% true 30% of the time.

10/11/2017 11:01 AM

To my knowledge for an item, car, bike etc. to be considered vintage it has to be 20 years or older.

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"Sorry Goose, but it's time to buzz the tower."

10/11/2017 11:11 AM

That is true. I really think there should be like a 2007 limit on the class. I mean you will still have a few 4 strokes in there but 07 was the last year that all the big MFGs made 2 strokes right?

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Vital news is 100% true 30% of the time.

10/11/2017 11:51 AM

8 years is ridiculous for vintage.

That's shorter than some brands model cycle.

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10/11/2017 11:51 AM

A 10 year old bike is still competitive with the current offerings. It really is up to the rider, eh? I mean were not talking expert class...

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A big thanks goes out to Donnie at Morgantown Powersports and RJ at Beaver Creek Cycles

10/11/2017 11:52 AM

Pretty sure the last year the manufacturer's made two strokes (big bikes) available in North America was 2008 for Suzuki, 2006 for Honda and Kawasaki.

Obviously the rest of the manufacturer's still make them to this day.

As for what year limit your local club should put I don't know. Maybe have that put to a vote with the club members? I believe modern 4 strokes started in 1998 with the YZF 400 then the YZF 426 was introduced to the public and in the early 2000's came the 250f's. 125 were still competitive against those early 250f's. I never made the jump to the 4 stroke bikes and my 125 was competitive. Maybe put the limit on the 4 strokes at the year 2004 or 2005?

I don't really see it being a problem if you have a 2008 RM or 2006 KX or CR. The 2018 YZ is really just an updated 2006. KTM however have continued to develop their 2 strokes so maybe cap the YZ and KTM SX at the year 2010 or 2008 just like when Suzuki stopped producing big bikes. Anything newer than a 2008 is just not accepted?

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"Sorry Goose, but it's time to buzz the tower."

10/11/2017 11:57 AM

-MAVERICK- wrote:

Pretty sure the last year the manufacturer's made two strokes (big bikes) available in North America was 2008 for Suzuki, 2006 for Honda and Kawasaki.

Obviously the rest of the manufacturer's still make them to this day.

As for what year limit your local club should put I don't know. Maybe have that put to a vote with the club members? I believe modern 4 strokes started in 1998 with the YZF 400 then the YZF 426 was introduced to the public and in the early 2000's came the 250f's. 125 were still competitive against those early 250f's. I never made the jump to the 4 stroke bikes and my 125 was competitive. Maybe put the limit on the 4 strokes at the year 2004 or 2005?

I don't really see it being a problem if you have a 2008 RM or 2006 KX or CR. The 2018 YZ is really just an updated 2006. KTM however have continued to develop their 2 strokes so maybe cap the YZ and KTM SX at the year 2010 or 2008 just like when Suzuki stopped producing big bikes. Anything newer than a 2008 is just not accepted?

Shouldnt this be in the OLD SCHOOL MOTO subforum?

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10/11/2017 12:17 PM
Edited Date/Time: 10/11/2017 12:19 PM

Nope. He's talking about a class at his local club not about a specific motorcycle.

Try again!

Edit: Now you're whining about it!

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"Sorry Goose, but it's time to buzz the tower."

10/11/2017 12:24 PM

early wrote:

Shouldnt this be in the OLD SCHOOL MOTO subforum?

Yeah I wasn't asking about the history of bikes in my OP ,(early). Thank you Maverick for your insight and knowledge. I just feel like the Vintage class should be an easy going class where people shouldn't have to worry about a guy hauling the mail on a 450. I really don't know why District 17 made it 8yrs or older. You would think they would have thought about how they have already crept into non vintage technology that is like you guys said still competitive with current bikes.

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Vital news is 100% true 30% of the time.

10/11/2017 12:24 PM

Lol at using a bike from 2000 to win the "vintage" class....

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Die Antwoord

10/11/2017 12:34 PM

gt80rider wrote:

Lol at using a bike from 2000 to win the "vintage" class....

The bike was 13 years old at the time and 5 years older than my 125 and 9 years older than my 450. It also complied with the 8yr or older rule. Trust me I want to buy a mid 90s 250 and do a project and run it. My in home accountant believes the only way I could do such project is if I was single lol. Also like I said I personally am not mad about the rule I just know a lot of older dudes that enjoy riding the class so they can ride safe enough to go to work on Monday. Locally every 17yr old C class crazy is racing the vintage class on their 250fs and 450s. I just feel like there should be something in place to make the class more ...vintage.

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Vital news is 100% true 30% of the time.

10/11/2017 12:39 PM
Edited Date/Time: 10/11/2017 12:40 PM

mmain62 wrote:

Yeah I wasn't asking about the history of bikes in my OP ,(early). Thank you Maverick for your insight and knowledge. I just feel like the Vintage class should be an easy going class where people shouldn't have to worry about a guy hauling the mail on a 450. I really don't know why District 17 made it 8yrs or older. You would think they would have thought about how they have already crept into non vintage technology that is like you guys said still competitive with current bikes.

Maverick called out ben990s race report for including an Alta but not being posted in the electric bike section. I was just glthrowing it back to him. Nothing personal, i guess this crazy 8 year rule means i ride a vintage 2 stroke too grin

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10/11/2017 12:49 PM

early wrote:

Maverick called out ben990s race report for including an Alta but not being posted in the electric bike section. I was just glthrowing it back to him. Nothing personal, i guess this crazy 8 year rule means i ride a vintage 2 stroke too grin

I was unaware of the ALTA debacle. Its a pretty weird rule.

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Vital news is 100% true 30% of the time.

10/11/2017 12:55 PM

Maybe another solution could simply be to change the class name to Pre-insert year 2 strokes and 4 strokes.

Like I previously mentioned vintage is anything over 20 years old. By that definition your 2000 CR 250 is old yes but not yet classified as vintage. Still old in terms of technology compared to the modern KTM's.

That said some will say vintage is 25 years and others will say it's 50 years but typically it's 20 years or more.

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"Sorry Goose, but it's time to buzz the tower."

10/11/2017 1:05 PM

Before 2 strokes came to dominate, there were 4 strokes...

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10/11/2017 1:24 PM

ando wrote:

Before 2 strokes came to dominate, there were 4 strokes...

Don't bring facts into this discussion!

You are showing your age!

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10/11/2017 2:26 PM

We classify classic cars as 25 years and older at our car shows. That means 1991 is now considered a classic vehicle. There is something wrong with that IMO.

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10/11/2017 2:27 PM

ando wrote:

Before 2 strokes came to dominate, there were 4 strokes...

AHRMA361 wrote:

Don't bring facts into this discussion!

You are showing your age!

I know these facts but no one is going to show up to race a local moto race on a bike from the 50's or 60's or 70's for that matter maybe and AHRMA race but not local moto. You know better than to start throwing real facts out on here ANDO. Thanks for the comments.

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Vital news is 100% true 30% of the time.

10/11/2017 2:39 PM

Vintage is a relative term and really doesn't need to be used when creating a class structure in my opinion. Separating the classes by year while keeping technology advances in mind lets anybody with a bike a class to race.

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Bret Bonham

10/11/2017 2:41 PM

Damn 8 years is crazy for vintage. Our District 37 classifies

-1974 Vintage
1974-79 Classic
1980-85 Evolution
1986-1995 Revolution


Rules are rules I guess and 8 years is damn near a modern bike to me

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"A link is only as long as your longest strong chain"

10/11/2017 2:41 PM

The circuit that I race now is a small "outlaw" series and they do have a vintage class along with all the normal classes on race day and the only rule is no disk brakes. Another series that ive never done but have looked into is a vintage only series and their classes are set up to kind of keep the bikes in their relative time period. For example 1 class is big bike from 1970-1979, '80-89' '90-99, And so on but then they also had specs within the classes like certain years had to be within a certain number of suspension travel requirement and then ofcourse rules on liquid vs air cooled and yada yada. Like I said ive never done any of their races but just from following it I think they must have a good thing going because they seem to have big turnouts for their races.

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10/11/2017 3:07 PM

I thought vintage was to 1977, then post vintage/ EVO/ Pre 82, then pre 90,s and so on.

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10/11/2017 3:37 PM

"Vintage" is defined by the sanctioning body, club, or promoter putting on the race. They decide. For example AHRMA specifies "Vintage" as basically 1974 and earlier.

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“Adhering to 1970’s Standards of Political Correctness”

10/11/2017 3:43 PM

-MAVERICK- wrote:

Pretty sure the last year the manufacturer's made two strokes (big bikes) available in North America was 2008 for Suzuki, 2006 for Honda and Kawasaki.

Obviously the rest of the manufacturer's still make them to this day.

As for what year limit your local club should put I don't know. Maybe have that put to a vote with the club members? I believe modern 4 strokes started in 1998 with the YZF 400 then the YZF 426 was introduced to the public and in the early 2000's came the 250f's. 125 were still competitive against those early 250f's. I never made the jump to the 4 stroke bikes and my 125 was competitive. Maybe put the limit on the 4 strokes at the year 2004 or 2005?

I don't really see it being a problem if you have a 2008 RM or 2006 KX or CR. The 2018 YZ is really just an updated 2006. KTM however have continued to develop their 2 strokes so maybe cap the YZ and KTM SX at the year 2010 or 2008 just like when Suzuki stopped producing big bikes. Anything newer than a 2008 is just not accepted?

Kawasaki stopped their 125 in 2005. The 250 remained until 2007

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Tomac and/or Anderson for 2020.....

10/11/2017 3:43 PM

If you can buy parts for it at the dealership, its not vintage
Photo

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"A link is only as long as your longest strong chain"

10/11/2017 4:06 PM

-MAVERICK- wrote:

Pretty sure the last year the manufacturer's made two strokes (big bikes) available in North America was 2008 for Suzuki, 2006 for Honda and Kawasaki.

Obviously the rest of the manufacturer's still make them to this day.

As for what year limit your local club should put I don't know. Maybe have that put to a vote with the club members? I believe modern 4 strokes started in 1998 with the YZF 400 then the YZF 426 was introduced to the public and in the early 2000's came the 250f's. 125 were still competitive against those early 250f's. I never made the jump to the 4 stroke bikes and my 125 was competitive. Maybe put the limit on the 4 strokes at the year 2004 or 2005?

I don't really see it being a problem if you have a 2008 RM or 2006 KX or CR. The 2018 YZ is really just an updated 2006. KTM however have continued to develop their 2 strokes so maybe cap the YZ and KTM SX at the year 2010 or 2008 just like when Suzuki stopped producing big bikes. Anything newer than a 2008 is just not accepted?

BobPA wrote:

Kawasaki stopped their 125 in 2005. The 250 remained until 2007

Yep looked that up not long ago and looks like 2007 was the last year for the Honda CR 125 and CR 250 as well.

Still sucks they're no longer available for purchase. People say buy new to support them but the thing is some people are loyal to a brand and like to stick with them and would buy a new model if it was available.

Take Suzuki for example. It's hard to support them when it looks like they've stopped caring. It's no wonder you don't see much of them out there. Kept the same RMZ model for 10 years. They release the 2018 model and it's basicly just an updated version of the old RMZ. Put in the effort and show people you care and they'll support you.

KTM is the perfect example. Practically no one rode them in the early-mid 2000's and look at them now. They're everywhere.

#BringBack2Strokes

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"Sorry Goose, but it's time to buzz the tower."

10/11/2017 4:26 PM

Some clubs run a "decade" class. It's all up to the promoter. my guess is the promoter is doing everything he can to get as many people as possible through the gate.

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The older I get, the faster I was.

10/11/2017 6:31 PM

Or separation via tech. As in pre-watercooled, no disc brakes, dual rear shocks, that's how it should be.

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10/11/2017 6:59 PM

-MAVERICK- wrote:

Yep looked that up not long ago and looks like 2007 was the last year for the Honda CR 125 and CR 250 as well.

Still sucks they're no longer available for purchase. People say buy new to support them but the thing is some people are loyal to a brand and like to stick with them and would buy a new model if it was available.

Take Suzuki for example. It's hard to support them when it looks like they've stopped caring. It's no wonder you don't see much of them out there. Kept the same RMZ model for 10 years. They release the 2018 model and it's basicly just an updated version of the old RMZ. Put in the effort and show people you care and they'll support you.

KTM is the perfect example. Practically no one rode them in the early-mid 2000's and look at them now. They're everywhere.

#BringBack2Strokes

Love me some Kawi two strokes. I admit the new KTM's are a better bike all around. But I grew up on Kawasaki's....and they cost me under $4k for the pair. If Kawasaki came out with new smokers, I'm not saying I'd be first on the list, but you could put me in the top 5 to buy one.Photo

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Tomac and/or Anderson for 2020.....

10/11/2017 7:07 PM

There's only one thing I don't like about that picture. It's located on the right and it's not the fact that it's a KTM because I like the brand. I'm on my phone so I can't really tell but it looks like it might have two extra strokes that are not needed lol. Hoping that's a 150.

If it is you certainly have a nice stable.

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"Sorry Goose, but it's time to buzz the tower."