Should Pro Moto be faster or slower in the future?

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9/28/2017 8:48 AM

Let technology go, or choke it back?

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2015 Beta 500 RS, history: 99 KTM 300, 87 CR250, 84 KLR 600, 82 GPZ 550, 81 KX 250, 80 KX 250, 79 Montesa 414 VE, 78 250 VB, 77 360 VB, 76 360 VA, 75 YZ 125, 74 TM 125, 72 TS 125, 60's West Bend Go Boy Kart

9/28/2017 9:03 AM

OK I'll go 1st. Faster.

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2015 Beta 500 RS, history: 99 KTM 300, 87 CR250, 84 KLR 600, 82 GPZ 550, 81 KX 250, 80 KX 250, 79 Montesa 414 VE, 78 250 VB, 77 360 VB, 76 360 VA, 75 YZ 125, 74 TM 125, 72 TS 125, 60's West Bend Go Boy Kart

9/28/2017 9:04 AM

I think we would get bored if we hold things back.

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2009 Kawasaki KX450F
2009 Kawasaki KX250F
2002 Suzuki GSXR 600

9/28/2017 9:34 AM
Edited Date/Time: 9/28/2017 9:35 AM

Better suspension slower motors, lighter bikes

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9/28/2017 9:45 AM

Slower. I’m a fan of good racing, not watching one or two guys do insane stuff while the rest of the pack separates trying to hang on to rockets.

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9/28/2017 9:45 AM

S. L. O. W. E. R. ++++ L. E. S. S. J. U. M. P. S. ====== C. L. O. S. E. R. R. A. C. I. N. G.
period

Promoter says "but it aint what the fans want to see!!!!" Bullshit, its the same fans and their offspring for the last 100 yrs. Trying to draw in nascar fans and monster truck fans with huge jumps is 1% effective so give up on it already. People want to see a damn race for once! Better you are in the points the worse gate pick you get, keep em on the ground more so they can pass. Same ole circus show has as many tuning out as there are newbies tuning in.

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9/28/2017 9:46 AM

faster and more powerful .... harder tracks that make you go slower ..

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scte3.0 pro-line trinity tekin

9/28/2017 9:54 AM

Silliker269 wrote:

Better suspension slower motors, lighter bikes

Photo
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9/28/2017 9:55 AM

brightlights wrote:

S. L. O. W. E. R. ++++ L. E. S. S. J. U. M. P. S. ====== C. L. O. S. E. R. R. A. C. I. N. G.
period

Promoter says "but it aint what the fans want to see!!!!" Bullshit, its the same fans and their offspring for the last 100 yrs. Trying to draw in nascar fans and monster truck fans with huge jumps is 1% effective so give up on it already. People want to see a damn race for once! Better you are in the points the worse gate pick you get, keep em on the ground more so they can pass. Same ole circus show has as many tuning out as there are newbies tuning in.

Colin Edwards? Sorry to hear about your dad.

Photo

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2015 Beta 500 RS, history: 99 KTM 300, 87 CR250, 84 KLR 600, 82 GPZ 550, 81 KX 250, 80 KX 250, 79 Montesa 414 VE, 78 250 VB, 77 360 VB, 76 360 VA, 75 YZ 125, 74 TM 125, 72 TS 125, 60's West Bend Go Boy Kart

9/28/2017 9:59 AM

Faster or slower? Just make it a more level playing-field.. For the last ten years its too common to see a top-rider come from last place/way back in the pack and win the race passing 3 or 4 other factory riders like nothing in the process.

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All I needs a cool buzz some tasty berms and I'm fine

9/28/2017 10:01 AM

Jamal#440 wrote:

Faster or slower? Just make it a more level playing-field.. For the last ten years its too common to see a top-rider come from last place/way back in the pack and win the race passing 3 or 4 other factory riders like nothing in the process.

What is so unlevel about the playing field in the premier class?

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9/28/2017 10:02 AM

brightlights wrote:

S. L. O. W. E. R. ++++ L. E. S. S. J. U. M. P. S. ====== C. L. O. S. E. R. R. A. C. I. N. G.
period

Promoter says "but it aint what the fans want to see!!!!" Bullshit, its the same fans and their offspring for the last 100 yrs. Trying to draw in nascar fans and monster truck fans with huge jumps is 1% effective so give up on it already. People want to see a damn race for once! Better you are in the points the worse gate pick you get, keep em on the ground more so they can pass. Same ole circus show has as many tuning out as there are newbies tuning in.

Johnny Depp wrote:

Colin Edwards? Sorry to hear about your dad.

Photo

No brother. Not him, but right down the road from him. Hate to hear that.

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9/28/2017 10:06 AM

As someone else mentioned.


Less CC's, lighter bikes.



9.5/10 the 250cc class trumps the 450s for action and interest. Not enough parity in lap times between 250s and 450s either, especially in SX where a 250 can and has matched or beat 450 lap times, which says something.

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9/28/2017 10:14 AM

early wrote:

What is so unlevel about the playing field in the premier class?

The jumps have contributed to an un-level playing field. I remember RJ being the only one who would do a quad at a certain race and he was the eventual winner.

When you put in obstacles so difficult that only a few can do them, you either have the same guys winning or wannabees getting career ending injuries. Worse part it does not make for more exciting racing.

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9/28/2017 10:14 AM

norcal3737 wrote:

As someone else mentioned.


Less CC's, lighter bikes.



9.5/10 the 250cc class trumps the 450s for action and interest. Not enough parity in lap times between 250s and 450s either, especially in SX where a 250 can and has matched or beat 450 lap times, which says something.

I really like the smaller and lighter bikes idea. They got rid of the 500cc bikes, I see the 450's going away to let E-bike come in.

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9/28/2017 10:39 AM
Edited Date/Time: 9/28/2017 10:48 AM

Technology should progress. ProMoto is already slower and the racing not as good as it was. Why? Tracks are OVER prepped, too deep, bunch of slot car lines down straights. Best racing was at Washougal this year. I wanna see racing not how good a rider's technical skill is. Watch enduro-cross for skill.

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9/28/2017 10:43 AM

Johnny Depp wrote:

Let technology go, or choke it back?

Didnt they already choke it back with the works ban?

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All I needs a cool buzz some tasty berms and I'm fine

9/28/2017 10:43 AM

Endurocross is slower and more technical. Still the same 2 dudes checking out on everyone.

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9/28/2017 10:50 AM

Johnny Depp wrote:

Let technology go, or choke it back?

Jamal#440 wrote:

Didnt they already choke it back with the works ban?

I was thinking electric vs. restrictor plates when I typed that.

Restrictor plates in my mind make more sense than high dollar, high rpm, short fuse smaller engines.

The production rule is a farce, the GP bikes don't go one bit faster with "works" stuff.

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2015 Beta 500 RS, history: 99 KTM 300, 87 CR250, 84 KLR 600, 82 GPZ 550, 81 KX 250, 80 KX 250, 79 Montesa 414 VE, 78 250 VB, 77 360 VB, 76 360 VA, 75 YZ 125, 74 TM 125, 72 TS 125, 60's West Bend Go Boy Kart

9/28/2017 10:50 AM

bbhMoto wrote:

The jumps have contributed to an un-level playing field. I remember RJ being the only one who would do a quad at a certain race and he was the eventual winner.

When you put in obstacles so difficult that only a few can do them, you either have the same guys winning or wannabees getting career ending injuries. Worse part it does not make for more exciting racing.

I think many people would disagree that there have been an increase in seperating obstacles and that they are not good.

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9/28/2017 10:51 AM

We need to manage the speed like most other motor sports. It's very, very important going forward.

There's quite a bit of feedback on the last 2 pages of this thread where I posted the following:
http://www.vitalmx.com/forums/Moto-Related,20/ALTA-at-A1,1327270

Look!

Every freaking motor sport on the planet manages the overall speed of the vehicles as technology evolves.
When the top speeds start reaching a threshold, Indy lowers the maximum displacement. I believe Nascar does as well.
It allows the manufacturers to continue to innovate and compete on a level playing field while managing the risk to the athletes.

Let's face the truth. A crash at 50 mph is going to do more damage than a crash at 38 mph (for example).

In MX we've done the exact freaking opposite! As technology, HP, and top speeds increased on 125 and 250 2 strokes, we brought in 4 strokes and freaking increased the max displacement and maximum speed. Why? Where does it stop? When SX bikes go 0-100 in 4 seconds?

Now, electric bikes are coming in and some people are saying to let them go as fast as they want. Don't limit them.

I'm saying Hell No! Not even faster!

It's time for us to manage the overall speed of MX for the exact same reasons Indy and Nascar do it.

The 125 and 250 (and 80cc) 2 strokes should be the standard at this point in time to adjust ANY bike that is going to be approved to race, regardless of the engine, or motor type. I don't care if you race a bike running on nuclear power or fuel cells, they each need to have maximum specs, and be managed by the controlling bodies.

If at some point 2 stroke technology advances, 125 and 250 may need to be lowered as well (but not at this point).

I've proposed how to manage the speed, lower maximum displacement for 4T's and bring back 2T's into competition a few times already in a manner that is great for manufacturers, after market companies, and riders. I won't go into the details again unless asked, but it can and should be done, and phased in over a few years.

As for the electric bikes today, we cannot increase speeds beyond where they are now. There must be maximum specs that reasonably keep them at or below the current speed of the 250 and 450 classes.
We cannot allow what happened when 4 strokes entered MX and SX again. Speeds must not increase or more riders will have more serious injuries.

Again, it's not about whether a rider can handle a more powerful bike. It's that when crashes occur, it's simple physics that the faster the speed, the more intense the injury. We've reached a threshold that we have no business crossing.

That's my $.02, though it's probably worth more like a buck.

Radical




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9/28/2017 10:54 AM

Silliker269 wrote:

Better suspension slower motors, lighter bikes

Boom

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9/28/2017 10:58 AM

Jamal#440 wrote:

Faster or slower? Just make it a more level playing-field.. For the last ten years its too common to see a top-rider come from last place/way back in the pack and win the race passing 3 or 4 other factory riders like nothing in the process.

How do you level talent?

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9/28/2017 10:59 AM



Nuff said!
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9/28/2017 11:04 AM

Have some of you hit your head too many times? Seriously. The tracks (and the fact it's on dirt) control the speed. It's not the bikes, SMH! If you offered up 540cc to a Pro would he want it? Some might. You have to control that power though, put it to the ground.

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9/28/2017 11:06 AM

Eliminate 450s and have a spec ECU. Everyone makes the same power. Privateers have better chance. 250’s are fast enough. The sport is too dangerous and it just keeps getting worse. We don’t need 50mph through whoops and 70mph straights.
The 450 is supposed to be the premiere class? Why? 250s do the exact same things on the track. I personally like watching 250s more because there are usually better battles.
If Roczen, Tomac and the rest were on 250s it would be just as exciting.

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9/28/2017 11:11 AM
Edited Date/Time: 9/28/2017 11:12 AM

I would go the route of MotoGP. Limit the fuel the bikes have for a moto.

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9/28/2017 11:16 AM

Nesc39 wrote:

Eliminate 450s and have a spec ECU. Everyone makes the same power. Privateers have better chance. 250’s are fast enough. The sport is too dangerous and it just keeps getting worse. We don’t need 50mph through whoops and 70mph straights.
The 450 is supposed to be the premiere class? Why? 250s do the exact same things on the track. I personally like watching 250s more because there are usually better battles.
If Roczen, Tomac and the rest were on 250s it would be just as exciting.

WTF?! "The sport is too dangerous". Really? All motosports have a danger factor. That's what makes them exciting. The rider controls the speed. You can only go so fast and have to brake for a corner, not much friction on dirt.
IF tracks had 100mph straights with 200' jumps and a rythym lane right after that if you timed it incorrectly you would possibly die, yea, that would be "too dangerous".
I can't for the life of me understand this fascination with detuning the bikes. I would like to see works bikes come back.

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9/28/2017 11:18 AM

brightlights wrote:

S. L. O. W. E. R. ++++ L. E. S. S. J. U. M. P. S. ====== C. L. O. S. E. R. R. A. C. I. N. G.
period

Promoter says "but it aint what the fans want to see!!!!" Bullshit, its the same fans and their offspring for the last 100 yrs. Trying to draw in nascar fans and monster truck fans with huge jumps is 1% effective so give up on it already. People want to see a damn race for once! Better you are in the points the worse gate pick you get, keep em on the ground more so they can pass. Same ole circus show has as many tuning out as there are newbies tuning in.

Sounds like Enduro Cross. Much better racing IMO.

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9/28/2017 11:32 AM
Edited Date/Time: 9/28/2017 11:34 AM

If you want to slow it down and or close up the competition, why do it with cc's?

An exhaust restrictor plate at the outlet is simple to install, test, inspect and verify. Not to mention quieter.

It gets tougher with electrics for sure.

Lap times are another simple method to separate classes.

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2015 Beta 500 RS, history: 99 KTM 300, 87 CR250, 84 KLR 600, 82 GPZ 550, 81 KX 250, 80 KX 250, 79 Montesa 414 VE, 78 250 VB, 77 360 VB, 76 360 VA, 75 YZ 125, 74 TM 125, 72 TS 125, 60's West Bend Go Boy Kart