Should Loretta’s have a C class

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5/31/2018 6:57 PM

I personally say no. No point in hiding in a class that means nothing in the grand scheme of things. Stupid to see people second mortgage their homes for a kid that will be done racing in 2 years. Thoughts?

Should Loretta’s have a c class

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5/31/2018 7:03 PM

I always felt that if you can jump everything and rail ruts, you shouldn't be in the C class. Get rid of it and even local races would be better with less sand bagging.

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5/31/2018 7:11 PM

1) Rename C to beginner
2) Expand the entries for B at Loretta’s

KC

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5/31/2018 7:17 PM

Not really sure how you grow a sport by not letting as many people participate.

Remember Michael Jordan was cut from his high school basketball team. Not everybody blossoms at the same time.

Weston Pieck should have just given up because he didn't have a factory ride at 16......

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5/31/2018 7:33 PM

All the promoters would be pissed at losing the C entry $$ at the qualifiers and regionals if they did that

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5/31/2018 7:38 PM

752dad wrote:

1) Rename C to beginner
2) Expand the entries for B at Loretta’s

KC

I agree with this. Mtb racing is the same way. Beginner, intermediate and expert

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5/31/2018 7:56 PM

I remember I was shocked when I saw Jeff Alessi and Lapaglia race the C class when they first moved up.

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5/31/2018 8:08 PM
Edited Date/Time: 5/31/2018 8:09 PM

You have to remember that the C class is different throughout the country. Out West we have beginner and then C is novice/junior. C is no joke here.

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5/31/2018 8:31 PM

McG194 wrote:

Not really sure how you grow a sport by not letting as many people participate.

Remember Michael Jordan was cut from his high school basketball team. Not everybody blossoms at the same time.

Weston Pieck should have just given up because he didn't have a factory ride at 16......

A good source (Laney High School Alum) told me this was misinformation. MJ wasn't cut per se, he was told he would have to play JV as a Freshman, instead of Varsity.

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5/31/2018 8:45 PM
Edited Date/Time: 5/31/2018 8:46 PM

mattyhamz2 wrote:

You have to remember that the C class is different throughout the country. Out West we have beginner and then C is novice/junior. C is no joke here.

C class can be like that here too man, when I raced D (beginner) i damn near jumped everything on the track and often caught vets on stagger starts. I moved up to C and was finishing midpack or worse, took half a season to catch up.

I think we should approach classifications like USABMX. They accept that the intermediate class is the largest class because so many people have tried the sport of bmx and demonstrated proficiency beyond a beginner, so they lump into the largest and most competitive class.

Imho C class isnt needed at Loretta's, but its such a cash cow with all of the C classes available multiplied by two or three regions.

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5/31/2018 8:55 PM

Yes.

Look at the times...outside the top 3.

The classes are exactly the steps they need to be

A customer of mine top 10 C at lorettas last year and frankly 2 years ago I would have never imagined he could... he made big strides

He has been just about dead last in B class this year at the national level events he tried.. and he is better this year than last...

The reason the A class isnt “way ahead of b” is simple... lorettas doesnt pay. The elite level b guys who could stay for a the next season at their next level of speed can do the same thing in pro and at least chase local/regional money and a bigger platform at pro pro rather than A

And some riders just dont jive at lorettas, chase felong used to do some things with us, he had a terrible lorettas last year in a, went and got 23-24 at hangtown if i remember right... he aint no slouch!

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5/31/2018 9:16 PM

How it is around here
D class = Beginner
C class = Intermediate
B class = Pro Am
A class = Pro

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2009 RMZ 250 (sold)
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5/31/2018 9:22 PM

I don't spend a lot of time on the amateur scene, but I don't think C class and National Championship belong in the same sentence.

I've always thought that letting them race area and regionals was a way to showcase their talent on that level. If you make it to B and want to step up to the big dance? Give it a shot.

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5/31/2018 9:31 PM

The 250 beginner class here in Portland Oregon at PIR is kinda stupid. Kids at the front are clearing all the jumps, railing turns, and then the kids at the back are barely moving. There should be more clear rules about who is allowed and not allowed in a “beginner” class because if you can go to washougal and clear every jump and fly through the turns you are no longer just a “beginner”..

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5/31/2018 9:33 PM

McG194 wrote:

Not really sure how you grow a sport by not letting as many people participate.

Remember Michael Jordan was cut from his high school basketball team. Not everybody blossoms at the same time.

Weston Pieck should have just given up because he didn't have a factory ride at 16......

TJMX947 wrote:

A good source (Laney High School Alum) told me this was misinformation. MJ wasn't cut per se, he was told he would have to play JV as a Freshman, instead of Varsity.

Hey, don’t go letting the truth get in the way of a good inspirational story...

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5/31/2018 9:47 PM

I think C class is good to stay a LL. It’s not a beginner class and the loss of revenue would murder the event.

However, what I would do is encourage the AMA to police the results/entries more effectively. Also, I would like to see the AMA pay better attention to whom they are allowing a demotion of racers that were advanced to B. From what I’ve seen this year... the riders that were awarded the demotions are dominating many of the qualifiers. The lack of attention to this by the AMA is a major problem. I’m sick of seeing career C riders and racers that were awarded demotions after winning B races.



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5/31/2018 10:10 PM

Derek Harris wrote:

Yes.

Look at the times...outside the top 3.

The classes are exactly the steps they need to be

A customer of mine top 10 C at lorettas last year and frankly 2 years ago I would have never imagined he could... he made big strides

He has been just about dead last in B class this year at the national level events he tried.. and he is better this year than last...

The reason the A class isnt “way ahead of b” is simple... lorettas doesnt pay. The elite level b guys who could stay for a the next season at their next level of speed can do the same thing in pro and at least chase local/regional money and a bigger platform at pro pro rather than A

And some riders just dont jive at lorettas, chase felong used to do some things with us, he had a terrible lorettas last year in a, went and got 23-24 at hangtown if i remember right... he aint no slouch!

There is another point to be made out of this as well... you could have some kids that don’t jive on minis. Then something clicks on big bikes and they have a chance to go to LL in C on a big bike. There are a lot of kids in this boat.

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5/31/2018 10:42 PM

GuyB wrote:

I don't spend a lot of time on the amateur scene, but I don't think C class and National Championship belong in the same sentence.

I've always thought that letting them race area and regionals was a way to showcase their talent on that level. If you make it to B and want to step up to the big dance? Give it a shot.

Maybe “amateur and National”don’t belong in the same sentence? Its an amateur event and C class is an amateur as it gets for those age groups.
Leave it in.

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5/31/2018 11:49 PM

McG194 wrote:

Not really sure how you grow a sport by not letting as many people participate.

Remember Michael Jordan was cut from his high school basketball team. Not everybody blossoms at the same time.

Weston Pieck should have just given up because he didn't have a factory ride at 16......

TJMX947 wrote:

A good source (Laney High School Alum) told me this was misinformation. MJ wasn't cut per se, he was told he would have to play JV as a Freshman, instead of Varsity.

I didn't know the entire story as I really hated MJ when he was playing.

You pretty much made my point, he was cut from the varsity team and had to play JV. I knew plenty of kids that played varsity as a freshman and didn't even get a sniff at college.


As far as the class structure a local track had A, B, C, and a Beginner class. The beginner class was also called the no jump class, the first time you jumped a double you got advanced to the C class.


I have just started riding dirt again after a 20 year hiatus and have been racing Hare Scrambles. They have a Beginner class that you get kicked out of after one of these three events 8 races total, 3 top 5's, or 1 win.

Sometimes sandbagging helps.... I remember reading an article back in the day that Jack McGrath would intentionally have Jeremy race a smaller local races as he thought learning to win was more important than facing tougher competition. I may remember that story wrong but in my opinion the logic was sound and it turned out ok. lol



Plenty of ways to get to the top, bottom line is they will never cut the class out. Not sure if you guys are aware but the purpose of a business is to make money and no one wants to slice the throat of 33% of their income.

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6/1/2018 1:09 AM
Edited Date/Time: 6/1/2018 1:10 AM

+1 on C class being different around the country... We have D class here... The top half of the racers in C class at an Ultra Series or Mega Series event aren't "total noobs" by any means...

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6/1/2018 5:19 AM

McG194 wrote:

I didn't know the entire story as I really hated MJ when he was playing.

You pretty much made my point, he was cut from the varsity team and had to play JV. I knew plenty of kids that played varsity as a freshman and didn't even get a sniff at college.


As far as the class structure a local track had A, B, C, and a Beginner class. The beginner class was also called the no jump class, the first time you jumped a double you got advanced to the C class.


I have just started riding dirt again after a 20 year hiatus and have been racing Hare Scrambles. They have a Beginner class that you get kicked out of after one of these three events 8 races total, 3 top 5's, or 1 win.

Sometimes sandbagging helps.... I remember reading an article back in the day that Jack McGrath would intentionally have Jeremy race a smaller local races as he thought learning to win was more important than facing tougher competition. I may remember that story wrong but in my opinion the logic was sound and it turned out ok. lol



Plenty of ways to get to the top, bottom line is they will never cut the class out. Not sure if you guys are aware but the purpose of a business is to make money and no one wants to slice the throat of 33% of their income.

I'm with you on MJ and varsity. You would think a player who would contribute to a NCAA Championship in his Freshman season would be playing Varsity 4 years prior to that. It would be like Ricky Carmichael losing local races when he was 13 years old.

Funny story, I was looking at AQ and Regional results from 2004, Brock Tickle raced the amateur regional in 125B (ended up racing School Boy at LLs and finishing 2nd I believe behind Josh Hill) and he got a legit 10th place. Kind of crazy to think about the strides he made in speed over the next 3 - 8 years.

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6/1/2018 5:58 AM

GuyB wrote:

I don't spend a lot of time on the amateur scene, but I don't think C class and National Championship belong in the same sentence.

I've always thought that letting them race area and regionals was a way to showcase their talent on that level. If you make it to B and want to step up to the big dance? Give it a shot.

Richard Tease II wrote:

Maybe “amateur and National”don’t belong in the same sentence? Its an amateur event and C class is an amateur as it gets for those age groups.
Leave it in.

Neither of you seem to understand what Amateur National Championship actually means. This is how i understand it. Amateur as in not professionals (this includes beginners as they are a sub classification of amateur), National meaning riders from all across the country compete (hence area and regional qualifiers spread across the country), championship meaning takes a series of events to become the champion (again due to qualifiers and also due to overall determined by 3 motos).

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2018 crf450r
2015 Ninja 1000

6/1/2018 6:15 AM

My local races now have 4 main classifications: A-Pro, B-Pro AM/Intermediate, C-Intermediate/Novice, D-Beginner. B & C overlap a lot. I have always raced C as there is more riders on average in 450C then 450B. Also it really depends on the event on how i place. I'v dominated some C races and iv gotten destroyed in some so it can go either way. One thing that stays fairly consistent is that there is normally only 4-8 riders in B class and if they stagger before 450C the top 3 normally catch and beat half the B class. I have even raced a few times where there was 4 "B" riders and I have caught and passed all 4 from staggered start. I stick with Ctho because every once in a while I try to go to a big event, like Daytona and at big events like that I'm lucky to be in top 30 in C class and if i race B locally I cant drop back to C for the big events. So basically I just judge my riding classification off of big events, which clearly shows i belong in C. This can sometimes be an issue at local events but i hardly race anymore (maybe 2-4 times a yr now).

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2018 crf450r
2015 Ninja 1000

6/1/2018 6:21 AM

Classes should be:
Beginner (2 years max)
Intermediate
Expert

I never chased national titles/events. I personally went straight from C to A. The local fast B riders were every bit as good as the A riders. But if I got 3rd in A I got my entry fee money back. So it was a no brainer for me. There were always less riders to deal with in the local A classes also, so the chance for making money was way better. Plus the riders were older in A and less likely to take eachother out. I don’t really think there is a fix for it. Plus it hurts the entry fee money that tracks can make, and that’s not cool, but IMO C class is stupid.

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6/1/2018 8:51 AM

mattyhamz2 wrote:

You have to remember that the C class is different throughout the country. Out West we have beginner and then C is novice/junior. C is no joke here.

I've had better results in B class out here than C class. True story.

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"A link is only as long as your longest strong chain"

6/1/2018 8:55 AM

GuyB wrote:

I don't spend a lot of time on the amateur scene, but I don't think C class and National Championship belong in the same sentence.

I've always thought that letting them race area and regionals was a way to showcase their talent on that level. If you make it to B and want to step up to the big dance? Give it a shot.

Richard Tease II wrote:

Maybe “amateur and National”don’t belong in the same sentence? Its an amateur event and C class is an amateur as it gets for those age groups.
Leave it in.

I always thought an "Amatuer National Championship" was nucking futs. I you want to be a National Champ run with the AMA Pro's.

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6/1/2018 10:45 AM

mattyhamz2 wrote:

You have to remember that the C class is different throughout the country. Out West we have beginner and then C is novice/junior. C is no joke here.

Stuntman949 wrote:

I've had better results in B class out here than C class. True story.

laughing I think that is universal.
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6/1/2018 10:55 AM

GuyB wrote:

I don't spend a lot of time on the amateur scene, but I don't think C class and National Championship belong in the same sentence.

I've always thought that letting them race area and regionals was a way to showcase their talent on that level. If you make it to B and want to step up to the big dance? Give it a shot.

Richard Tease II wrote:

Maybe “amateur and National”don’t belong in the same sentence? Its an amateur event and C class is an amateur as it gets for those age groups.
Leave it in.

OW38B wrote:

I always thought an "Amatuer National Championship" was nucking futs. I you want to be a National Champ run with the AMA Pro's.

you should reread what you posted there. There is a big difference between an Amateur National Championship and a Pro National Championship, Hence the Amateur and Pro words in front of National Championship. IDK y ppl keep confusing the word National with the words Pro and Amateur...

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2018 crf450r
2015 Ninja 1000

6/1/2018 11:02 AM

The purpose of a class structure is so riders of similar skill, age, etc, riding similar sized bikes are grouped together to make the racing more competitive and safe. If you are a purist who wants only the very best to be named national champion, then you can by definition have only 1 class. No age classes, no bike classes, no womens classes. That would be pretty stupid because nobody would participate since in order to make it interesting for riders you have to have at least some parity between riders and bikes. Why is it wrong to have a national C class championship, but OK to have a national 6 y/o 50cc champion or a national 50+ champion? Nobody pretends that riders in those classes are the fastest in the country either. C-class is not a beginner class. It is the lowest national class but a beginner would have no chance to compete. They tried having a beginner class once at LL and that didn't go over too well.

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6/1/2018 11:07 AM

McGrath won the novice class at Lorettas.

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