Should 300 2-strokes be allowed in the AMA 450 class?

kiwifan
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12/25/2019 12:56pm
Do we really need a pole to figure out what Vitals stance is on this? Lol I’m an off-road guy. The 300 is the ultimate off-road...
Do we really need a pole to figure out what Vitals stance is on this? Lol

I’m an off-road guy. The 300 is the ultimate off-road bike because it’s lite & torquey. You can lug it like a 4stroke, power up huge hills & still thread it through the tight technical stuff like a 250. I just don’t think this bike translates into a better MX bike than a 250 for the 450 class.
^^ This!!!!
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Grenader26
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12/25/2019 1:16pm
wwdiii wrote:
Will somebody post a pic of a girl on a 2 stroke with big BOOBS and be done with it!!

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Tarz483
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12/25/2019 1:51pm
I'm not personally a fan of Mixing two strokes and Four strokes. So I would say no.
But I am a fan for trying new things.
I think Daniel Blair gas got it right, he said in a recent podcast to have a mod/works 250 class, be the premier class.
And have a stock 250 class. And I agree, That sounds like the best solution for Super cross that I have heard.
The racing is typically better on them anyway.

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ktm 125
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12/25/2019 3:03pm
Die hard 2t fan here! But 4t are faster in mx. Even if they had similar lap times, when battling each other the loss of momentum due to a block pass or the front bike defends position is way bigger on a smoker. But 2t are super fun to ride, more demanding and more rewarding, a living machine. So idk, i'd hate to see them fighting for 15th...

The Shop

12/25/2019 3:12pm
Absolutely.. would actually spice things up, but I am sure only manufacturers making 2 strokes would be fore it.

450F vs 300cc2T and 250F vs. 167cc2T is what is close to fair.
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bvm111
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12/25/2019 3:58pm
Holy 2 year old thread Batman!

I’m as a big a 2 stroke fan as the next but please just give it up, it’s not 2004 and is beating a dead horse and boarder line desperation at this point!
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12/25/2019 4:53pm
Those 3hunnits are pretty popular with the jungle riding gang.....
kb228
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12/26/2019 6:39am
How about

250 class
Open class

This way it makes sense.. like why even start at 100cc? Are we allowing superminis to race supercross and forcing geico honda and pro circuit to race full blown factory 450s and expecting it to be fair?
Bramlett321
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12/26/2019 7:29am
yz133rider wrote:
Shit 250 2 strokes should be allowed in the 250 class. Id allow 500 2 strokes in the 450 class, so absolutely 300s should be allowed...
Shit 250 2 strokes should be allowed in the 250 class. Id allow 500 2 strokes in the 450 class, so absolutely 300s should be allowed in the 65+hp 12,000 rpm traction controlled, adjustable mapping, launch control 450 class.
Yep CC for CC....technology has changed the game. I'd love to see it man.
Travis_Hudson
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12/26/2019 9:25am
slipdog wrote:
^^Jeff is correct a mod 250 is way better than a 300. Hated the one I raced at Glenn Helen a few summers ago.
ML512 wrote:
Agreed, the 300s I've tried on a moto track weren't that appealing. Mike Brown and I were chatting with this after he's raced the 300 at...
Agreed, the 300s I've tried on a moto track weren't that appealing. Mike Brown and I were chatting with this after he's raced the 300 at Straight Rhythm and at the two-stroke national...he said mod 250 over 300 all day.
I remember riding some KTM's that seemed like they had the bore/stroke thing figured out. They ripped, but its been some years ago now...my memory may be fuzzy.
H4L
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12/26/2019 11:46am Edited Date/Time 12/27/2019 8:05am
downard254 wrote:
I would love to see how a factory built 300 would do. I’m sure a 450 would still own it, but didn’t they say RC’s last...
I would love to see how a factory built 300 would do. I’m sure a 450 would still own it, but didn’t they say RC’s last 250 was making about 62 HP. I probably read that wrong I’ll bet, right?
57HP on his 02/03 CR250..... I think a legit factory built and tuned 300cc 2 stroke on an SX track would make a good bike with...
57HP on his 02/03 CR250..... I think a legit factory built and tuned 300cc 2 stroke on an SX track would make a good bike with any top 10 factory rider.
In 02 there was an mx mag that published it had 59 hp.. Did a search on the net & couldn’t find the article. More than likely it got archived do to its age. I might have a hard copy in a box buried somewhere in the garage.
The 03 had a tad more since Honda improved on the cyl. porting specs.
Steve--
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12/30/2019 2:19pm
Whip wrote:
Steve-- wrote:
What a naive, ignorant, false statement.
bultokid wrote:
You do know Jeff ran a 250 2t in the Nats ?
If your point is that he is a good rider, then I would agree. However, his claim is not factual when it comes to the physics of engine function. I'm both a long time engine builder, and a studying physicist and his functional description is simply inaccurate. Increasing the size of the piston does not effect the engines ability to rev. Yes, increasing the piston size does increase the mass of the rotating assembly, but it proportionately also increases the amount of fuel in the combustion chamber, which more than counters this increase in mass.

Increasing the stroke, however, is a different, more complex issue, and will in fact affect the engine's revving ability.
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kage173
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12/30/2019 2:49pm
If they did, would we see different lines from the 2t? That would be cool. Just fantasizing but it's a genuine question
Travis_Hudson
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12/30/2019 2:53pm
kage173 wrote:
If they did, would we see different lines from the 2t? That would be cool. Just fantasizing but it's a genuine question
Sweep the leg Johnny!
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Steve--
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12/30/2019 2:53pm Edited Date/Time 12/30/2019 2:58pm
Bearuno wrote:
Simple Equivalency - that's all racing should be. Anything else is just Handicap Class Bullshit. Manufacturers that choose Not to make a 450 class 2t -...
Simple Equivalency - that's all racing should be.

Anything else is just Handicap Class Bullshit.

Manufacturers that choose Not to make a 450 class 2t - fair enough.

Those ( and I doubt it would be many, or, perhaps, any: I'm a realist) who did choose to, fair enough, again.

And, for those that keep coming out with the idea of new classes, like 200cc /350cc, well, whatever sizing you invent, that would require development of entirely new engines, for the vast majority of manufacturers = well, there's a great way to drive up costs / drive out manufacturers. Riders axe themselves on any capacity they get on, even pitbikes..............

Once again, and forever and anon, just make the 250 and 450 classes, at Every level, Equivalent capacity classes.
If I'm understanding you correctly, I tend to agree with this. All things, other than the racers themselves, should be equivalent. Even smaller cc engines should not be allowed. If in some way, a smaller engine, just as with a larger engine, gives some sort of an advantage, then it is not fair, and shouldn't be allowed. The only reason any person would want to use an engine different than the standard class, whether that engine is smaller or bigger, would be for the advantage it would provide. Other than for an advantage, there would be no reason to want a different engine size. Again, this would be unfair, as a race should come down to nothing other than individual rider skill levels.
CPR
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12/30/2019 5:38pm
kage173 wrote:
If they did, would we see different lines from the 2t? That would be cool. Just fantasizing but it's a genuine question
That is an issue for anybody riding a 2t.
A track dominated by 4t's will have different lines than what 2t's need to go as fast as possible.
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endurox
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12/30/2019 7:04pm
Lowering the DB level to 90DB at 2 meters will take away the 4 stroke advantage and keep the sport going for awhile longer.
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kage173
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12/30/2019 8:05pm
Sweep the leg Johnny!
Lol. Bro I'm cool with no 2t and I have no delusions that it'll happen. Just wondering.
1/2/2020 6:20pm
TxT0RKiT wrote:
Did MA800 run a big bore YZ at Monster Cup. I heard he got a LCQ win. But, I didn’t see the LCQ on TV unfortunately.
https://youtu.be/0ffMMQmETm8


The OEM's hate this.


Beat the 450's on the Track and Ride Single Track the next day!

At half the price!
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Travis_Hudson
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1/2/2020 6:46pm Edited Date/Time 1/2/2020 6:47pm
Sweep the leg Johnny!
kage173 wrote:
Lol. Bro I'm cool with no 2t and I have no delusions that it'll happen. Just wondering.
I was referring to sweeping lines like two strokes need. Lol. Listen i for one would love to see it. I will tell you this.....i know when i rebuilt my 250 awhile back after not having one for awhile, that it was interesting riding at tracks with mostly four strokes. I would mak a good sweeping line and next lap, boom! It is either blown out or squares up. Four strokes can effectively take what use to be a bad line and make it work. In supercross 250 for 250 would probably interesting. 450 against 250 is not fair no matter which way you stack it.
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1/2/2020 9:15pm
TxT0RKiT wrote:
Did MA800 run a big bore YZ at Monster Cup. I heard he got a LCQ win. But, I didn’t see the LCQ on TV unfortunately.
https://youtu.be/0ffMMQmETm8


The OEM's hate this.


Beat the 450's on the Track and Ride Single Track the next day!

At half the price!
Yes 250 2- Strokes should run with 250 4-Strokes for starters!! And 450 2-Strokes should run against 450-4 Strokes!!

The video link shows # 800 on a YZ ESR 325 pulling off the Hole Shot against 450's, but the OEM's don't like it because they would loose Parts Sales.

OEM's don't give a DAM about MX or Off-Road Racing / Riding in my mind!!
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