Shootout’s are a laugh........

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8/14/2019 5:01 PM
Edited Date/Time: 8/14/2019 5:03 PM

Ok, so 99% of us on here are nowhere near the top 20 guys in MX and SX. I know there are few former Pro’s that visit and post.....JT$, DV12 etc..... The main test riders for shootouts are damn good riders and on another level than most of us.......

The thing that cracks me up most about shootouts is when the main guy talking about the bike saying how said bike is overweight, motor is under horse powered, suspension needs a lot of work, hard to ride.......... Meanwhile the rider in the background is RIPPING around the track, scrubbing the $hit out of jumps and railing berms like a champ. 😂😂😂😂

And can someone tell me why Motocross Action is always completely off on their bike pics compared to the other magazines??

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“Let the Good Times Roll”

8/14/2019 5:02 PM

Paging Mr. Info...

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8/14/2019 5:04 PM

The only correct answer is Honda...

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8/14/2019 5:07 PM

MXA is off because theyre biased toward KTM.

MXA is the CNN of moto media.

Anyways, takes good riders to test bikes. Do we really want C level riders out there who cant feel a difference in fork height? If 10 different A/B class guys give the same feedback that should be pretty good.

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8/14/2019 5:07 PM

The best bike out there.
Is the one your on, go get some seat time.

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8/14/2019 5:19 PM

They always have been.

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much ty. How to spot a paid forum poster/artificial forum traffic producer (see list of actions/phrases below):

Copius pattern amounts of phrases like “Anyone have”..., “Anybody know?”.... and their variations.

Thoughts?
Any help is appreciated!
Thanks in advance!





8/14/2019 5:22 PM

I read MXA's review of the 2020 Honda 450, and it was laughable imho. But at the end of the day that is their opinion I guess, but it went against most of what I had seen and heard so far.

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Current rides: 2019 CRF450RWE and 2019 TC300
Occasional ride for VMX: 1985 CR500RF
Adventure/Road bike: CRF1000L

8/14/2019 5:59 PM

I’ve never put to much stock into them. I’ve done my own testing through the yrs.. In the end that’s what matters since I’ll be riding the bike & not someone else.

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Speak softly and carry a big stick.

8/14/2019 6:04 PM
Edited Date/Time: 8/14/2019 6:43 PM

Racer111 wrote:

Ok, so 99% of us on here are nowhere near the top 20 guys in MX and SX. I know there are few former Pro’s that visit and post.....JT$, DV12 etc..... The main test riders for shootouts are damn good riders and on another level than most of us.......

The thing that cracks me up most about shootouts is when the main guy talking about the bike saying how said bike is overweight, motor is under horse powered, suspension needs a lot of work, hard to ride.......... Meanwhile the rider in the background is RIPPING around the track, scrubbing the $hit out of jumps and railing berms like a champ. 😂😂😂😂

And can someone tell me why Motocross Action is always completely off on their bike pics compared to the other magazines??

Did your Suzuki not fair well? I think any shootout can be biased, but I also think most of the major shootouts try to be as fair as possible.

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8/14/2019 6:27 PM
Edited Date/Time: 8/14/2019 6:31 PM

kb228 wrote:

MXA is off because theyre biased toward KTM.

MXA is the CNN of moto media.

Anyways, takes good riders to test bikes. Do we really want C level riders out there who cant feel a difference in fork height? If 10 different A/B class guys give the same feedback that should be pretty good.

Yes actually I would like to see a bunch of c guys do the testing. Would be more realistic to the masses.

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8/14/2019 6:37 PM

They are a joke. I just wish they talked about them but did not out them in any order

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8/14/2019 6:52 PM

Racer111 wrote:

Ok, so 99% of us on here are nowhere near the top 20 guys in MX and SX. I know there are few former Pro’s that visit and post.....JT$, DV12 etc..... The main test riders for shootouts are damn good riders and on another level than most of us.......

The thing that cracks me up most about shootouts is when the main guy talking about the bike saying how said bike is overweight, motor is under horse powered, suspension needs a lot of work, hard to ride.......... Meanwhile the rider in the background is RIPPING around the track, scrubbing the $hit out of jumps and railing berms like a champ. 😂😂😂😂

And can someone tell me why Motocross Action is always completely off on their bike pics compared to the other magazines??

theprizefighter wrote:

Did your Suzuki not fair well? I think any shootout can be biased, but I also think most of the major shootouts try to be as fair as possible.

I bought a 2020 CRF.

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“Let the Good Times Roll”

8/14/2019 7:13 PM

Not all the shootouts are just "fast" riders. There were definitely some legit novice and vet guys at atleast one of them last year that I saw with my own eyes.

Not all "fast" riders can actually test, and not all slow riders can't test. Some guys have it and some don't. I will say you can't have a completely out of control guy test simply because they can't replicate their actions/lines, but other than that, speed isn't a necessity to be a good test rider.

They have their place - the ranking/result is not the ultimate - but the info and breakdown can really help steer a decision.

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Proud supporters of VitalMX. Ask me about the VitalMX Discount!

8/14/2019 7:18 PM

Riesenberg448 wrote:

Not all the shootouts are just "fast" riders. There were definitely some legit novice and vet guys at atleast one of them last year that I saw with my own eyes.

Not all "fast" riders can actually test, and not all slow riders can't test. Some guys have it and some don't. I will say you can't have a completely out of control guy test simply because they can't replicate their actions/lines, but other than that, speed isn't a necessity to be a good test rider.

They have their place - the ranking/result is not the ultimate - but the info and breakdown can really help steer a decision.

"the ranking/result is not the ultimate - but the info and breakdown can really help steer a decision."

This is the biggest thing most people seem to overlook or not understand. Just because a bike got 2nd to last or last in a shootout doesn't mean the bike is trash. All the bikes are good these days and depending on your skillset or riding style, your ranking order could be different. That's why they always break down what people liked, what their skillset is, price and so on. Read/watch/listen to the breakdown of each bike and see what fits you the best.

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8/14/2019 7:23 PM
Edited Date/Time: 8/15/2019 6:16 AM

Riesenberg448 wrote:

Not all the shootouts are just "fast" riders. There were definitely some legit novice and vet guys at atleast one of them last year that I saw with my own eyes.

Not all "fast" riders can actually test, and not all slow riders can't test. Some guys have it and some don't. I will say you can't have a completely out of control guy test simply because they can't replicate their actions/lines, but other than that, speed isn't a necessity to be a good test rider.

They have their place - the ranking/result is not the ultimate - but the info and breakdown can really help steer a decision.

aeffertz wrote:

"the ranking/result is not the ultimate - but the info and breakdown can really help steer a decision."

This is the biggest thing most people seem to overlook or not understand. Just because a bike got 2nd to last or last in a shootout doesn't mean the bike is trash. All the bikes are good these days and depending on your skillset or riding style, your ranking order could be different. That's why they always break down what people liked, what their skillset is, price and so on. Read/watch/listen to the breakdown of each bike and see what fits you the best.

I say it every year, at no point do I think the winner of Shootouts is the bike everyone should go buy. I do think it’s a well rounded bike typically to pull the W but I think the characteristics of the bikes as they’re explained is the true reason a shootout is useful, dissecting that to see which one would be the best choice to add to your garage.

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If you liked my bike tests from Vital, head to my YouTube channel to see my latest tests and more: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCcgAl-F63686Bfnt44vmrfQ
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8/14/2019 7:28 PM

Well the last 2 bikes I have owned (3 if you count my sons) 2016 KTM 350 SXF x2, 2019 KTM 350 SXF aren’t in any Shootouts. 😢😢

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8/14/2019 7:30 PM

Coming from behind the camera of some VitalMX videos and MIchael Lindsay’s, the truth is that the fast riders and banger action looks muchhhhh better to watch then shots of the 30+C rider.

For example on last years Vital 250 shootout I filmed the first day and got to test the bikes as a rider day 2 and 3. I’m 35 B/C, can test well and have feel of bike changes, but there’s no way you want to see video clips of me ride. My input was added to the scores and the average is what ML talks about on camera. But When editing, it’s embarrassing to see the clips compared to guys like Michael, Max or Zack Peddie.

GuyB did use some great camera work to get these shots, but he’s a pro and does great work to make me look legit.





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8/14/2019 7:42 PM

I enjoy watching them but they have little impact on what I buy.

I buy what I'm most comfortable on, fits me the best and what dealers are nearest my home which happens to be Kawasaki.

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8/14/2019 7:53 PM

ML 512 paid for his own 2020 bikes. 6 bikes at maybe 8 grand apiece is 48K. Let’s just call it 50K. How many of you have $50,000 grand laying around in the bank. Bet Yamaha has 50K.

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8/14/2019 7:59 PM

Has anyone reading this thread ever purchased a bike based on a shootout?
Serious question.
The 2016 shootouts kind of made me want a yzf250...
My next bike will be a 300xc, 250xc, or kx450 if I can get a smoking deal on it. The KTMs because they make sense for my racing and the kx would be for contingency purposes. I would happily purchase a cheap rmz to have strictly for moto racing if I got a good deal. Point is, shoot outs have nothing to do with my next purchase.

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8/14/2019 8:05 PM

They need to bring in a few more clydesdale test riders.... that would make it more relevant to your average rider

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8/14/2019 10:22 PM

ktmdan wrote:

Has anyone reading this thread ever purchased a bike based on a shootout?
Serious question.
The 2016 shootouts kind of made me want a yzf250...
My next bike will be a 300xc, 250xc, or kx450 if I can get a smoking deal on it. The KTMs because they make sense for my racing and the kx would be for contingency purposes. I would happily purchase a cheap rmz to have strictly for moto racing if I got a good deal. Point is, shoot outs have nothing to do with my next purchase.

A bit different, but after riding all of them last year I almost bought a Yamaha and I've been a Honda guy forever.

But, I actually just bought the bike I put 4th in the shootout last year, the Honda, because I have a dealer relationship and the only two things I would have to do to it to make it perfect for me are suspension and mapping which I have a good relationship to handle both.

I talked with ML briefly today, and it's interesting because if you actually listen and learn, you can find out that some bikes that might not crush the shoot out are easy to fix the "flaws" while others who might score higher in complete stock trim would be more difficult to improve and personalize.

Another example, the 2019 KX450, to make it comfy for me was mainly the bars and levers which are extremely easy and cheap to change.

If you are just looking for a brand to win, you're missing the point. Read, listen, dissect the info across each media outlet if you actually want to make an educated decision. If you hear the same thing 5 or 6 times, I'd think it's a pretty well rounded opinion.

One shootout isn't enough to make a decision, but an accumulation should be helping steer your decision if you are flexible about what you're going to buy.

Not everyone is, for example, until this purchase it didn't matter. If Honda was the worst bike, I would've bought one still because the price and support was too good to match. Shootouts are steering the guy who knows what he wants, they are helping weigh the decisions of the guys on the fence or debating.

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8/14/2019 11:26 PM

*someone posting fofiddy shootout results*
Me:

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My third and last attempt to establish account on this website.

Disabilities:
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8/14/2019 11:55 PM

Find the test riders at the practice track and see what bike is in their truck- then look at their shootout results. Did they spend their hard-earned on their favourite bike, or did the manufacturer loan them a bike for the year in exchange for a favourable review..? Always the sceptic..

It HAS to happen, right??

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8/15/2019 12:34 AM

Thisusernameisavailable wrote:

Find the test riders at the practice track and see what bike is in their truck- then look at their shootout results. Did they spend their hard-earned on their favourite bike, or did the manufacturer loan them a bike for the year in exchange for a favourable review..? Always the sceptic..

It HAS to happen, right??

OR they liked the brand so much they brought one

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Current rides: 2019 CRF450RWE and 2019 TC300
Occasional ride for VMX: 1985 CR500RF
Adventure/Road bike: CRF1000L

8/15/2019 1:12 AM

ktmdan wrote:

Has anyone reading this thread ever purchased a bike based on a shootout?
Serious question.
The 2016 shootouts kind of made me want a yzf250...
My next bike will be a 300xc, 250xc, or kx450 if I can get a smoking deal on it. The KTMs because they make sense for my racing and the kx would be for contingency purposes. I would happily purchase a cheap rmz to have strictly for moto racing if I got a good deal. Point is, shoot outs have nothing to do with my next purchase.

I am 54 years old in 3 weeks, Bought my first bike when I was 15. Have owned KTM’s since late 1996.
The only time I have been influenced by a magazine on a bike purchase was late 2012 , at that time I had a KTM 450 SXF. MXA did a digital magazine on KTM’s in it was a project they did on a 300SX 2 stroke. The next day I ordered a 2013 250 SX, with the 300 kit fitted from new.

I do remember back in the early eighties at school arguing about the best bikes in Shootouts, this is when it took about 3 months for MXA and the other magazines to get to New Zealand,

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8/15/2019 1:42 AM

Thisusernameisavailable wrote:

Find the test riders at the practice track and see what bike is in their truck- then look at their shootout results. Did they spend their hard-earned on their favourite bike, or did the manufacturer loan them a bike for the year in exchange for a favourable review..? Always the sceptic..

It HAS to happen, right??

kiwifan wrote:

OR they liked the brand so much they brought one

^ Didn't I say that??^

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8/15/2019 1:56 AM

Tonynz wrote:

I am 54 years old in 3 weeks, Bought my first bike when I was 15. Have owned KTM’s since late 1996.
The only time I have been influenced by a magazine on a bike purchase was late 2012 , at that time I had a KTM 450 SXF. MXA did a digital magazine on KTM’s in it was a project they did on a 300SX 2 stroke. The next day I ordered a 2013 250 SX, with the 300 kit fitted from new.

I do remember back in the early eighties at school arguing about the best bikes in Shootouts, this is when it took about 3 months for MXA and the other magazines to get to New Zealand,

Ha yeah I remember that as a 80s teenager in Aus- months old MXA's for twice the price of local ADBs or Trail n Track, and they were the coolest thing ever.
My riding mates n I would bag on each other if your model/ make didn't fare well in a shootout.
Though I do actually think shootouts held more stock back then because the differences between bikes were greater. Now it's just about pick your favourite colour.

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8/15/2019 2:06 AM

Thisusernameisavailable wrote:

Find the test riders at the practice track and see what bike is in their truck- then look at their shootout results. Did they spend their hard-earned on their favourite bike, or did the manufacturer loan them a bike for the year in exchange for a favourable review..? Always the sceptic..

It HAS to happen, right??

kiwifan wrote:

OR they liked the brand so much they brought one

Thisusernameisavailable wrote:

^ Didn't I say that??^

yes you did, my bad

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Current rides: 2019 CRF450RWE and 2019 TC300
Occasional ride for VMX: 1985 CR500RF
Adventure/Road bike: CRF1000L

8/15/2019 6:04 AM

Wait, you guys buy a bike for it's riding traits????
I just buy the ones that look good to me! Maybe because I'm old and slow. "If you can't go fast, look fast!"

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