Shifting With the Clutch

Stuntman949
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Stuntman949 4/9/2018 2:38pm
4/9/2018 2:38pm
aFACEdismembered wrote:
I don't know about wrong but not having to pull a lever a few extra 100 times per ride saves a lot of fatigue and energy...
I don't know about wrong but not having to pull a lever a few extra 100 times per ride saves a lot of fatigue and energy. I ride a 13 year old KX250 with original transmission.
Yeah KX500 gears are getting expensive and rare damn quick so the clutch is my friend
hellbillyohio 4/9/2018 2:42pm
4/9/2018 2:42pm
mikec265 wrote:
Sometimes I feel like a clutch. Sometimes I don't.
What's Gary Semics and other credit worthy trainers say to do?
It's been a looooong time since I went to Semics Mx school. I want to say that's where I learned that it was ok to not use it. I also remember running a circle track and Gary had us using the brakes without clutching as well. I never do on the down shift. Why? because its one less thing to worry about.

Correct me if I am wrong Mr. Semics

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Muscle-Milk-KTM 4/9/2018 2:46pm
4/9/2018 2:46pm
I nip the clutch when I'm going up a long uphill to keep the revs from dipping but the only other time I use it is when I'm moving away/starting, slipping it, when using the back brake in mid air & stopping.
Katoomey
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Katoomey 4/9/2018 3:17pm
4/9/2018 3:17pm Edited Date/Time 4/9/2018 3:18pm
you don't have to use the clutch, but there is almost no upside to not using, while there is an upside to using it- less wear on your dogs/dog houses, and much less wear on your shift forks.

you aren't going to gain any advantage by speed shifting, in fact, you might be wasting focus on timing the shifts, although, if you are one of those that suffers from arm pump due to clutch use, it may benefit you to use the clutch less.
Motofinne
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Motofinne 4/9/2018 3:35pm
4/9/2018 3:35pm
Katoomey wrote:
you don't have to use the clutch, but there is almost no upside to not using, while there is an upside to using it- less wear...
you don't have to use the clutch, but there is almost no upside to not using, while there is an upside to using it- less wear on your dogs/dog houses, and much less wear on your shift forks.

you aren't going to gain any advantage by speed shifting, in fact, you might be wasting focus on timing the shifts, although, if you are one of those that suffers from arm pump due to clutch use, it may benefit you to use the clutch less.
I'm sorry but i have a really difficult time to even see your potential scenario.

No upside to not using? I see lots of upsides of not using the clutch. I mean i can shift whenever i want on my bike, i don't have to time the shifts even though i don't use the clutch. I seriously see no upside with using to clutch except the wear part. But like i said, i have never ever had a problem with that even though i'm not using the clutch.
BobPA
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BobPA 4/9/2018 3:58pm
4/9/2018 3:58pm
I hold her wide and dab the clutch to up shift. Not even really sure what I do on downshifts. I always felt it easier to shift quicker while touching the clutch on an upshift. Power shifting a bike never works for me, the bike simply will not shift.
Katoomey
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Katoomey 4/9/2018 4:01pm
4/9/2018 4:01pm Edited Date/Time 4/9/2018 4:02pm
Katoomey wrote:
you don't have to use the clutch, but there is almost no upside to not using, while there is an upside to using it- less wear...
you don't have to use the clutch, but there is almost no upside to not using, while there is an upside to using it- less wear on your dogs/dog houses, and much less wear on your shift forks.

you aren't going to gain any advantage by speed shifting, in fact, you might be wasting focus on timing the shifts, although, if you are one of those that suffers from arm pump due to clutch use, it may benefit you to use the clutch less.
Motofinne wrote:
I'm sorry but i have a really difficult time to even see your potential scenario. No upside to not using? I see lots of upsides of...
I'm sorry but i have a really difficult time to even see your potential scenario.

No upside to not using? I see lots of upsides of not using the clutch. I mean i can shift whenever i want on my bike, i don't have to time the shifts even though i don't use the clutch. I seriously see no upside with using to clutch except the wear part. But like i said, i have never ever had a problem with that even though i'm not using the clutch.
well ladi fuckin da.

my post was pretty ambiguous about whether you should or shouldn't use the clutch. I also didn't say there was any other upside to using a clutch besides wear and tear.

I was just pointing out, that there aren't really any benefits to speed shifting, unless you are just lazy, or you get arm pump.

what are the upsides of not using the clutch? if you think you're going faster because you aren't using the clutch, your high. Every racer has experimented with using vs not using the clutch. I found out when I was on mini's that it didn't make a bit of difference. Using the clutch does not take any more time than not using it...the shift can happen at the same exact time, regardless. And it can happen so fast that there is no more loss of power transmission vs speed shifting.

so, you don't use the clutch...should we build a fucking monument in your honor?
SoCalMX70
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SoCalMX70 4/9/2018 4:03pm
4/9/2018 4:03pm
Half and half with down shifting, always when I up shift. YZ250.

I'm not really sure what makes me decide to use it when I down shift other than when I'm descending a hill and don't want the extra drag.
Motofinne
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Motofinne 4/9/2018 4:05pm
4/9/2018 4:05pm
I'm actually disappointed that i responded to your post because i knew that would be your response. Mistake from my part.
agn5009
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agn5009 4/9/2018 4:14pm
4/9/2018 4:14pm
Skylebones wrote:
Always on a down shift, but often I don't use the clutch on an upshift especially on a fast straight. If you time everything right it's...
Always on a down shift, but often I don't use the clutch on an upshift especially on a fast straight. If you time everything right it's as smooth as butter and completely harmless.
Same as me.
Falcon
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Falcon 4/9/2018 4:40pm
4/9/2018 4:40pm
I always give it a little slap just to let the clutch spin for a moment. It seems like it helps the gears find each other easier.
Just a slap. Like slappin da bass.
Eddieg15
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Eddieg15 4/9/2018 5:07pm
4/9/2018 5:07pm
It's called constant mesh transmission. As it implies. I blip clutch sometimes on up shifts. Never use it on down shift as it helps w braking pulling in on clutch when down shifting only speed you up when trying to brake
theycallmeebryan 4/9/2018 5:17pm
4/9/2018 5:17pm Edited Date/Time 4/9/2018 5:20pm
These transmissions are designed to allow for clutchless shifting. I typically don't use the clutch on up shifts. If i do, its just barely grabbing it with my finger to release some of the load on the transmission, allowing the gears to mesh. The more powerful the engine, to more you have to let off or release load on the transmission in order for it to shift. On my 125 i barely need to roll the throttle hand back for a shift to occur. On the 450, the rollback is much more pronounced.

On my street bikes, i actually preload the shifter with my foot, then blip the throttle hand to allow the bike to shift.

Some sport bikes have quick shifters which trigger an ignition cut precisely at the point of shifting, allowing you to hold it wide open and bang the shifter without having to roll off the throttle. Wonder why that hasn't made it into the motocross world yet (for up shifts, mainly)?

This (long) video does a decent job explaining clutchless shifting:

https://youtu.be/2D_XxTFrq4M
plowboy
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plowboy 4/9/2018 6:48pm
4/9/2018 6:48pm
Robgvx wrote:
Have never used the clutch to shift since I started racing 41 years ago. Never once broken a tranny.
X2. Way back in the day clutches were made of peanut butter. We tried to use them as little as possible. I learned to drive a semi by "floating" the gears the same way...clutch was for starting/stopping only.
Sonny
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Sonny 4/9/2018 7:12pm
4/9/2018 7:12pm
Odd you mention that. I was just thinking back on a season I tried Hare scrambles. An A rider suggested that I shift without a clutch, when possible. The theory was to only use it in tight sections and mud. Last Saturday in Seattle explained it all.

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FARANG
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FARANG 4/9/2018 7:33pm
4/9/2018 7:33pm
Sometimes do, sometimes don't (depending on how tired I am mainly) on my YZ125. When I start getting arm pump I stop using it. Never had gearbox issues.

My street/track bike - 899 Panigale - has a quickshifter up and down (aftermarket blipper) and it's buttery smooth. I've often thought this would be cool on any MX bike that had Ride By Wire. I'm guessing the reason they don't have it is the extra expense, those load cells are expensive and easily broken. Also, preventing a bit of rear wheel hopping on aggressive downshifts is less important on a MX bike since it's constantly moving around anyway. Much more scary when it happens at the track on a road bike.
King KTM
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King KTM 4/9/2018 8:07pm
4/9/2018 8:07pm
BobPA wrote:
I hold her wide and dab the clutch to up shift. Not even really sure what I do on downshifts. I always felt it easier to...
I hold her wide and dab the clutch to up shift. Not even really sure what I do on downshifts. I always felt it easier to shift quicker while touching the clutch on an upshift. Power shifting a bike never works for me, the bike simply will not shift.
X2 I cant get the bike to shift while hard on the throttle. Downshifting sometime I do sometimes I don’t.
731chopper
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731chopper 4/9/2018 10:03pm
4/9/2018 10:03pm
I typically feather the clutch on upshifts if I’m hard on the throttle. Never for a downshift though.
rongi#401
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rongi#401 4/9/2018 11:14pm
4/9/2018 11:14pm
I literally have no idea if I do or not
Premixed112
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Premixed112 4/9/2018 11:27pm
4/9/2018 11:27pm Edited Date/Time 4/9/2018 11:28pm
Can you non-clutch guys explain to me how you upshift while wide open. I seriously don't get how this is possible or how it's "quicker" than staying wide open and feathering the clutch momentarily for an upshift. Every time I've tried shifting up while accelerating, even if letting off the throttle slightly, I'm feeling resistance from the transmission and/or it feels like I'm hurting the transmission.
Andy_Greenney 4/9/2018 11:48pm
4/9/2018 11:48pm
As a hangover from my 2 stroke days I flick the clutch on up shifts, never on the downshifts. Only ever lost third gear on an cr85 which was a common problem back in the day
Turbojez
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Turbojez 4/10/2018 2:22am
4/10/2018 2:22am
99% of the time I pull in the clutch when shiftin. I only skip it when armpump doesn't let me move my finger anymore. Always assumed it's easier and cheaper to replace clutches, than transmission gears.
Lastander
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Lastander 4/10/2018 2:36am
4/10/2018 2:36am
Motofinne wrote:
I have never ever used the clutch when shifting. Not when down shifting, not when up shifting. I have never ever had clutch issues in my...
I have never ever used the clutch when shifting. Not when down shifting, not when up shifting. I have never ever had clutch issues in my 15+ years of riding.

I'm amazed that people use the clutch when they shift.
Maybe its a murica thing?Laughing
I have never used it either, but when i think about it i have probably trashed 5 gearboxes in 6-7 years
TMV
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TMV 4/10/2018 2:43am
4/10/2018 2:43am
An ex-AMA pro racer (who almost beat the king on a 250 SX championship) once told me not to use it to upshift only for downshifting...
NVA57
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NVA57 4/10/2018 2:58am
4/10/2018 2:58am
On sandtracks (99% of the tracks here) I feather the clutch when upshifting. It's a bitch to click it in gear while going through deep bumps and ruts while maintaining a high RPM on a 2 stroke without the clutch.

On hardpack I never ever touch it.

Never use it on downshifts either.
SOAB_465
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SOAB_465 4/10/2018 7:55am
4/10/2018 7:55am
Always when shifting up on the ground, sometimes in the air, hardly ever when shifting down.

I keep hearing you need to shift without it to go fast, but...

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