Serious Aldon thread

level
Posts
6185
Joined
8/27/2006
Location
Acworth, GA US
Edited Date/Time 5/12/2019 11:11am
No doubt this guy builds champions but at what cost? Seems like he burns out every rider who he works with to the point they retire early or takes the fun out of it.

No doubt this sport at this level you have to be amazingly physically fit. We all know how exhausting it is to ride a dirt bike and to do it for 20 to 35 minutes at full speed is limited to just a few riders.

What are your thoughts on his training? Good or bad or we don’t have enough info?
2
6
|
5/11/2019 12:47pm
Musquin is almost 30 , Osborne is almost 30 ... only the ones who have won titles and big money have retired early
13
1
150ripper
Posts
583
Joined
12/30/2018
Location
Beverly Hills, CA US
5/11/2019 12:52pm
Some people don't mind training. Apparently Dungey stuck pretty close to the program after he retired. Zacho said when he got to Aldon's he started doing less work than he had before. I'd bet if you asked Webb right now if all the work he put in leading up to SX this was worth it he'd say hell yea!
13
Natester551v
Posts
1002
Joined
1/11/2015
Location
St. George, UT US
5/11/2019 12:58pm
I recall reading about this survey of Olympic athletes where they posed a hypothetical scenario of "if they could guarantee a gold medal, but die by 40 yrs old, would they do it". Some crazy high majority said yes.

If you could make tens of millions by working your ass off for 10 years, then retire, I'd rather that than be second tier and stretch it out for much longer. That's somewhat of a false choice for many riders, but what about the uber-talented guys that squander their prime?

2
wildbill
Posts
4358
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
Christmas Valley, OR US
5/11/2019 1:03pm
When I was training for rank amateur plastic, it became a job and took some of the fun out of it. I can only imagine at that level. Win bonus might sway my thought process a bit.
2

The Shop

MotoMan12345
Posts
1668
Joined
12/22/2014
Location
Woodbine, NJ US
Fantasy
1924th
5/11/2019 1:10pm
You’re definitely right. Stew said in his video that Aldon was killing him, RD and RV also said they were completely drained out. Probably why Kenny and AC left Aldon
3
Ranman68
Posts
1143
Joined
1/31/2019
Location
Lubbock, TX US
5/11/2019 1:11pm
I don't think it's because of Aldon Baker or his program. I think it's a result of the insane schedule and number of races each year. After a brutal 17 round sx series with only one weekend off, the riders must immidiatly start practicing for outdoors and be lined up for Hangtown two weeks after the last sx event. Then it's back to back racing every week through the outdoor series. After that ends, if you're one of the top riders/champions, you may have mxon to start getting ready for. Then there's the MEC later in October for all the top ama guys to prepare for. After that, Amaheim 1 is just around the corner. It's the constant switching from sx to mx that requires a lot of testing set ups as well. No time of the year where they can rest for any length of time and heal their bodies. It's the ridiculous, non stop schedule and pressure to not only race in it all, but to win. It's not Aldon. Aldon is just prearing them the best possible for all they are scheduled to compete in. The ones who win are the ones who train the most intensely and put in the most work. There's a limit on how long a guy can do that without being ruined physically or burned out mentally.

6
4
77Moto
Posts
512
Joined
1/31/2019
Location
CA
5/11/2019 1:12pm
Cooper had 3 titles before. It's not like Aldon had to tell him to not eat a gallon of ice cream each night.
Didn't teach him how to ride or go fast.
Didn't teach him how to train or be in shape.

Cooper needed a change. New motivation. It's like back when Lechien, RJ, Bailey, Omara were on Hondas.
You knew you had the winning shit. And so you did. That's what I see.

Osbourne same thing. He won a Championship overseas, maybe some other stuff.

Dungey. Same thing.

Roczen same thing.






1
2
kkawboy14
Posts
11494
Joined
6/5/2015
Location
TX US
5/11/2019 1:44pm
Let’s calculate the reality:

1) 3 time Champion with $15,000,000.00 in the bank, cruises happily thru the rest of his life!

2) 0 Championships, never above 47th fastest in the World, has $38.00 in the bank when he retires (but isn’t burnt out on moto), digs ditches the rest of his life and becomes burnt out on life and digging ditches.....

Yep definitely 2 different paths and yep both lead to burn out of some kind!
4
1
Helda
Posts
690
Joined
9/17/2018
Location
AU
5/11/2019 2:00pm Edited Date/Time 5/11/2019 2:01pm
77Moto wrote:
Cooper had 3 titles before. It's not like Aldon had to tell him to not eat a gallon of ice cream each night. Didn't teach him...
Cooper had 3 titles before. It's not like Aldon had to tell him to not eat a gallon of ice cream each night.
Didn't teach him how to ride or go fast.
Didn't teach him how to train or be in shape.

Cooper needed a change. New motivation. It's like back when Lechien, RJ, Bailey, Omara were on Hondas.
You knew you had the winning shit. And so you did. That's what I see.

Osbourne same thing. He won a Championship overseas, maybe some other stuff.

Dungey. Same thing.

Roczen same thing.






People don't give Alton enough credit, do you think he would of won the SX Championship if he went to KTM but trained with Swannie, you bet your ass after training RC, JS, RV, RD he knows how to train both on and off the bike.

He's seen more laps thrown down then any trainer in the sport right now!

There is a saying we had when I was racing thoroughbreds, Any trainer can train a good horse but a great trainer will take that horse to the next level and get the full potential from that horse.

Same as here.
3
3
race
Posts
3447
Joined
8/26/2006
Location
CA US
5/11/2019 2:00pm
77Moto wrote:
Cooper had 3 titles before. It's not like Aldon had to tell him to not eat a gallon of ice cream each night. Didn't teach him...
Cooper had 3 titles before. It's not like Aldon had to tell him to not eat a gallon of ice cream each night.
Didn't teach him how to ride or go fast.
Didn't teach him how to train or be in shape.

Cooper needed a change. New motivation. It's like back when Lechien, RJ, Bailey, Omara were on Hondas.
You knew you had the winning shit. And so you did. That's what I see.

Osbourne same thing. He won a Championship overseas, maybe some other stuff.

Dungey. Same thing.

Roczen same thing.






I wouldn't use the 250 class titles as a comparison. Sheer talent alone goes a lot farther in the 250 class than 450. Once you step up to the big bike class your talent won't carry you nearly as far without the other components.

No doubt some of it was due to a change of bike, team, etc.

None of us know what Aldon told him, but Cooper said he dropped another 10-15 pounds from the shape he was in. That's a huge amount for someone who thought they were in shape. Add in the weekly training with elite competition and presumably Aldon's coaching, strategizing ... and you have a winning formula. I think Aldon should get a lot of credit for Cooper's turnaround.

I also think the KTM450 should start getting some credit too. Over the last few years Dungey, Musquin and Cooper have all demonstrated that thing can turn on a dime. I don't see the other bikes able to dive into extreme inside lines and pivot like the KTMs.
2
bents
Posts
3282
Joined
12/31/2009
Location
CA
Fantasy
710th
5/11/2019 2:02pm
For RC, Dungey, and RV specifically, I don't think it was as simple as saying that they got burnt out on training and Aldon. They got burnt out on the constant pressure of having to win all the time and everything that came with it. So they retired early, with tons of bank, set for life, with multiple titles-isn't that the point? This sport by nature is not built for longevity, with the exception of a few. RV is having a great time now, Dungey looks pretty dang happy, and RC seems to be doing alright! I mean for RC for example, after 150 wins, and 15 championships at age 26, what was left to prove? They all got tired of having to constantly defend their titles as much as they tired of the training, if not more-just my opinion.
9
Sluggo77
Posts
311
Joined
3/25/2018
Location
CA
5/11/2019 2:24pm Edited Date/Time 5/11/2019 2:28pm
In one interview RC said MX was his job by the age 11 and already not enjoying it. JS was his family's way out of poverty. Villo and Dungey took racing and winning as serious as a heartache. When Dungey was 15 he was down south during the winter to ride and race. They said in his free time he was by himself in a hotel room doing push-ups. What kind of normal 15 yr old does that?
All these guys, and their families were fanatically obsessed with only one thing, winning and the financial reward that goes with it. Baker is nothing more than a symptom of that obsession. Most of the guys who employ him were on the road to burn out long before they met him. Since an early age, a sport to most of us is truly a job to these guys. If you are a multi-millionaire and your job is really dangerous, retiring as soon as you can seems logical.
9
2
soggy
Posts
4882
Joined
12/3/2018
Location
UT US
Fantasy
3846th
5/11/2019 2:47pm
in one of the MX Nation season's Aldon talks about how hard his program is and how it might cause people to retire early or get burnt out. But his thinking is yea the training is really hard but if you as a rider get 5-6 years of racing at your peak and collecting championships/ contending that's better then just kind of going through the motions and racing for 10-12 years.
4
mattmatt300
Posts
1448
Joined
3/30/2009
Location
Rockmart, GA US
5/11/2019 3:11pm
Who did he burn out? RV wasn’t happy anymore and RD had an injury that made him look at things differently.
2
peltier626
Posts
1401
Joined
3/15/2018
Location
LA US
5/11/2019 3:18pm
Ranman68 wrote:
I don't think it's because of Aldon Baker or his program. I think it's a result of the insane schedule and number of races each year...
I don't think it's because of Aldon Baker or his program. I think it's a result of the insane schedule and number of races each year. After a brutal 17 round sx series with only one weekend off, the riders must immidiatly start practicing for outdoors and be lined up for Hangtown two weeks after the last sx event. Then it's back to back racing every week through the outdoor series. After that ends, if you're one of the top riders/champions, you may have mxon to start getting ready for. Then there's the MEC later in October for all the top ama guys to prepare for. After that, Amaheim 1 is just around the corner. It's the constant switching from sx to mx that requires a lot of testing set ups as well. No time of the year where they can rest for any length of time and heal their bodies. It's the ridiculous, non stop schedule and pressure to not only race in it all, but to win. It's not Aldon. Aldon is just prearing them the best possible for all they are scheduled to compete in. The ones who win are the ones who train the most intensely and put in the most work. There's a limit on how long a guy can do that without being ruined physically or burned out mentally.

Agree. 12 sx and 12 outdoors with multiple breaks in between rounds.
1
jonesaustin
Posts
2498
Joined
7/6/2009
Location
Austin, TX US
5/11/2019 3:36pm
competition overwhelmed the cool factor. bikes are too fast (easy), tracks are too scientifically designed, and the training is too insane to make it worth doing. of course, burning out at 28 with no worries financially the rest of your life is a nice thought, but from the fans perspective it seems lost. back to YouTube for some 250 2 stroke racing.
Sluggo77
Posts
311
Joined
3/25/2018
Location
CA
5/11/2019 4:03pm
I wasn't blaming anyone around them especially Baker. I said they where very driven kids from a young age. My point was with or without Aldon the result was going to be the same.
1
1
kpiper
Posts
2192
Joined
3/20/2019
Location
AZ US
5/11/2019 4:13pm
Aldon is great no doubt but RC, RV and RD would have won without him. You look really good as a football coach when you have great players. Same here.

Aldon is not magic. Still needs great talent to create winners.

His program does seem to keep the athlete lean and mean like bicycle racers. I will say Webb looks a little worn out though. Much more so than Tomac.
1
langhammx
Posts
8932
Joined
5/5/2011
Location
Santa Clarita, CA US
Fantasy
455th
5/11/2019 4:21pm
Who did he burn out? RV wasn’t happy anymore and RD had an injury that made him look at things differently.
Roczen
AC
Baggett
Bubba
RC
Spudnut
Posts
1946
Joined
6/25/2018
Location
WA US
5/11/2019 4:37pm
Do any job for 10 years plus and you will be a little burnt out on it no matter what. Espescially when you have a family and are on the road for how many weeks a year???

A couple to 10 million stacked up and a family at home would make me want to retire before 30 as well!
1
5/11/2019 4:44pm Edited Date/Time 5/11/2019 4:45pm
Whatever the case may be, the dude is in these rider's head with a proven winning message.

Webb on the podium in Dallas after fighting from behind for the closest win in the history of the sport:
"...And I honestly was kinda settling for a podium and I just said, ‘You know what, never give up.’ I would have probably got yelled at by Aldon. So just went out and gave it my all. "
4
hamncheeze
Posts
2428
Joined
1/13/2018
Location
British Columbia CA
5/11/2019 4:45pm
I think a huge part of Aldon's program is the mental edge he manages to transfer to his riders. Dungey was already a champion and a race winner, but going to Aldon simplified things for him and he spent way less time worrying about his training, his fitness and probably even his bike. Zacho had a plenty of talent and some good results, but Aldon pulled the best out of him. Anderson, probably benefited from the training as much as anything but in his 2018 SX season look how he managed his races. Same with Webb, look at how he raced this season. Consistent and calm.

For as much as he is a great physical trainer I think he is more valuable as a mental coach.
5
1
5/11/2019 5:02pm
This has been the way sports are, one champ and the others try as hard as possible to be the champ.
If they don't make it I wears them out, even last year's champ will wear out eventually.

Not everyone can be the champ.
JB 19
Posts
4205
Joined
3/8/2009
Location
Marion, OH US
5/11/2019 5:39pm
I have a different angle to consider. Maybe for the guys that Aldon can help to the point of dominating the sport for awhile it's actually the stress and expectations of being the champ for 3-4 straight years that actually causes the retirement.... and the large pile of cash they made.
mattmatt300
Posts
1448
Joined
3/30/2009
Location
Rockmart, GA US
5/11/2019 5:52pm
Who did he burn out? RV wasn’t happy anymore and RD had an injury that made him look at things differently.
langhammx wrote:
Roczen
AC
Baggett
Bubba
RC
Roczen thought he could do it on his own
AC??
Baggett??
Bubba got Yamahitis
RC wanted to leave on top and do exactly that

Not sure why you’re calling AC and BB burnt out?
1
1
UpTiTe
Posts
7758
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
CA US
Fantasy
4091st
5/11/2019 6:12pm Edited Date/Time 5/11/2019 6:13pm
77Moto wrote:
Cooper had 3 titles before. It's not like Aldon had to tell him to not eat a gallon of ice cream each night. Didn't teach him...
Cooper had 3 titles before. It's not like Aldon had to tell him to not eat a gallon of ice cream each night.
Didn't teach him how to ride or go fast.
Didn't teach him how to train or be in shape.

Cooper needed a change. New motivation. It's like back when Lechien, RJ, Bailey, Omara were on Hondas.
You knew you had the winning shit. And so you did. That's what I see.

Osbourne same thing. He won a Championship overseas, maybe some other stuff.

Dungey. Same thing.

Roczen same thing.






Helda wrote:
People don't give Alton enough credit, do you think he would of won the SX Championship if he went to KTM but trained with Swannie, you...
People don't give Alton enough credit, do you think he would of won the SX Championship if he went to KTM but trained with Swannie, you bet your ass after training RC, JS, RV, RD he knows how to train both on and off the bike.

He's seen more laps thrown down then any trainer in the sport right now!

There is a saying we had when I was racing thoroughbreds, Any trainer can train a good horse but a great trainer will take that horse to the next level and get the full potential from that horse.

Same as here.
Most people give Aldon to much credit. RC, 5 titles before he met Aldon. RV 3, Stewy 3 Dungey 5 and Little Dooosh Coop 1, all would’ve done the same without Aldon.

Cooper is a small guy that was on a Rigid, big 450. He moved to a smaller, slimmer lighter more forgiving bike and did what he knows how to do. Fitness was never his problem, EVER, his bike and the confidence he found in that bike is the big change.

Coop didn’t need Aldon, he needed that team.
4
7
5/11/2019 6:26pm
Sluggo77 wrote:
In one interview RC said MX was his job by the age 11 and already not enjoying it. JS was his family's way out of poverty...
In one interview RC said MX was his job by the age 11 and already not enjoying it. JS was his family's way out of poverty. Villo and Dungey took racing and winning as serious as a heartache. When Dungey was 15 he was down south during the winter to ride and race. They said in his free time he was by himself in a hotel room doing push-ups. What kind of normal 15 yr old does that?
All these guys, and their families were fanatically obsessed with only one thing, winning and the financial reward that goes with it. Baker is nothing more than a symptom of that obsession. Most of the guys who employ him were on the road to burn out long before they met him. Since an early age, a sport to most of us is truly a job to these guys. If you are a multi-millionaire and your job is really dangerous, retiring as soon as you can seems logical.
Not only logical, but for some, similar to say a WWII bomber crew - a dread and altogether rational fear that the longer you race the more certain you are the hammer is about to drop. Dungey alluded to it.
2
had2comment
Posts
107
Joined
5/2/2013
Location
Huntington Beach, CA US
5/11/2019 6:43pm
77Moto wrote:
Cooper had 3 titles before. It's not like Aldon had to tell him to not eat a gallon of ice cream each night. Didn't teach him...
Cooper had 3 titles before. It's not like Aldon had to tell him to not eat a gallon of ice cream each night.
Didn't teach him how to ride or go fast.
Didn't teach him how to train or be in shape.

Cooper needed a change. New motivation. It's like back when Lechien, RJ, Bailey, Omara were on Hondas.
You knew you had the winning shit. And so you did. That's what I see.

Osbourne same thing. He won a Championship overseas, maybe some other stuff.

Dungey. Same thing.

Roczen same thing.






Helda wrote:
People don't give Alton enough credit, do you think he would of won the SX Championship if he went to KTM but trained with Swannie, you...
People don't give Alton enough credit, do you think he would of won the SX Championship if he went to KTM but trained with Swannie, you bet your ass after training RC, JS, RV, RD he knows how to train both on and off the bike.

He's seen more laps thrown down then any trainer in the sport right now!

There is a saying we had when I was racing thoroughbreds, Any trainer can train a good horse but a great trainer will take that horse to the next level and get the full potential from that horse.

Same as here.
UpTiTe wrote:
Most people give Aldon to much credit. RC, 5 titles before he met Aldon. RV 3, Stewy 3 Dungey 5 and Little Dooosh Coop 1, all...
Most people give Aldon to much credit. RC, 5 titles before he met Aldon. RV 3, Stewy 3 Dungey 5 and Little Dooosh Coop 1, all would’ve done the same without Aldon.

Cooper is a small guy that was on a Rigid, big 450. He moved to a smaller, slimmer lighter more forgiving bike and did what he knows how to do. Fitness was never his problem, EVER, his bike and the confidence he found in that bike is the big change.

Coop didn’t need Aldon, he needed that team.
Couldn’t agree more. A legit nutritionist and legit professional trainer could produce any top of the line athlete. Get your blood taken regularly and make sure you aren’t deficient in anything boom.
1

Post a reply to: Serious Aldon thread

The Latest