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I can see why the insurance companies need to price for it.
They have to consider it, if they want to stay in business.
That's why they need to be booted out.
Someone has to pay for that.
As it is, a select group of people are targeted to take on that high risk, almost certain expense.
Why a select group?
Interested to hear your thoughts on who should pay for these kind of items?
And who should be considered eligible?
More power to them.
And no, I'm not advocating lowering standards.
And I don't appreciate you putting words in my mouth.
What I'd like to see is a relief from the stranglehold one organization has on the profession.
More doctors, the price they charge should go down.
And furthermore, nobody says you have to deal with a doctor not accredited with the AMA.
All you would need do is look on the wall at his diplomas.
You don't like them, you don't feel they're qualified, don't use him.
Just don't tell me who I have to deal with, or if I can can go overseas if I can't afford Dr. John Smith from Harvard Medical School If I so wish.
What happens when I get a life threatening condition, and my insurance company doesn't cover it?
Do I just die because my company doesn't have it going on like you?
The Shop
Healthcare companies and insurers have done an amazing job convincing us that when it comes to health care it is every man for themselves and it's royally fucking us.
That's where Government should come in.
That's where all of us, we, as one great big tribe, do the best to take care of all.
Would it be as good as a few, select individuals get, heck no.
But there should be something.
And St. Jude's Hospital can only ask for so many donations.
That's why, imo, it's something, something vital, that's needed by all, both well and not so well off.
And you ain't gonna get that out of a businessman hired by a company to maximize profits.
IMO its the administrative bureaucratic payment system friction, with a ton of personnel involved, that is driving up costs, not "free care" people. My premiums went up every year since I started working in 89, and I paid full freight for my family since 97 and was not sheltered by employee subsidies.
One anecdotal example I have is my buddy living in Orange County California, who makes Good Money and is surrounded by Top Medical Facilities, who goes to MEXICO for his dental work. Right over the border in Mexico is state-of-the-art facilities, USA trained staff, and fraction of the costs. It's cheaper to pay out of pocket than it is to pay via his Good Dental Insurance.
That's one example. Look up costs of giving birth in the USA vs other 1st World Countries. Or the cost of a ACL. Or anything else. It's cheaper to fly out of country, get the work done, and fly home EVEN IF YOU HAVE GOOD HEALTHCARE PROGRAM in the USA.
The talking point that non-USA medical facilities are mud huts with dirty scalpels is pretty bs. Any industrialized country has quality facilities.
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A report of McKinsey and Co. from 2008 found that between 60,000 and 85,000 medical tourists were traveling to the United States for the purpose of receiving in-patient medical care.[69] The same McKinsey study estimated that 750,000 American medical tourists traveled from the United States to other countries in 2007 (up from 500,000 in 2006).
In First World countries such as the United States, medical tourism has large growth prospects and potentially destabilizing implications. A forecast by Deloitte Consulting published in August 2008 projected that medical tourism originating in the US could jump by a factor of ten over the next decade. An estimated 750,000 Americans went abroad for health care in 2007, and the report estimated that 1.5 million would seek health care outside the US in 2008.
We also have a teledoc line that we can call. Most of the little crap I get like sinus infections, are diagnosed over the phone for free, and the script is called in and I just pay for the prescription. This is the best option available to me. But if you need a routine prescription, or anything that costs monthly, it's not beneficial. In other words, I'm just fortunate I'm healthy and can benefit from this HSA.
Seems odd that somebody has to travel from WA to MN to get the surgery they need if your system is so great. I didn't even have to leave my city and a three month stay in hospital with a 13+ hour surgery didn't cost us a dime out of pocket. Never mind all the endoscopes and other preliminary tests (CT scans, etc).
Someone mentioned a single payer and then supplemental insurance. That makes the most sense to me, just like car insurance. You get covered for the routine items like check-ups and preventative care while it will also cover accidents and emergencies. Then you need to get supplemental insurance to cover cancer and other disease treatments. Those are the items that get expensive. That is a little cold hearted but something has to give somewhere. And I am not wealthy by any means so I would probably be the one dying because I couldn't afford the coverage for some weird disease...
Just because we can do something doesn't mean it always makes sense. If you can't afford a $500,000 house the government won't subsidize it. Some of the treatments we have now that are super expensive should be looked at the same way. Then maybe the medical industry will correct their pricing to sell more at a cheaper price instead of selling more at a government subsidized price.
Pit Row
7 months ago myself, my wife and two kids (year and a half old girl, four year old boy) were traveling through Montana to an indoor race. We were hit head on by a drunk driver. We were in an SUV (my dad had already taken bikes down), and it completely crunched it. kids were rushed around and flown to a couple different hospitals, but within 8 hours we all ended up at the same facility on separate floors.
I don't remember much until I was laying in the ER at the last hospital and I made it clear to all the hospital staff that I have good travel insurance through my work, and my dad was able to get a hold of a co-worker and get all of the information.
I had completely shattered my left knee-cap, and broke my wrist. My wife broke several bones in her face, her thumb and her ankle. My little girl broke both her femurs. My boy broke his tib/fib and we would later find out that he had a bleed on the back of his brain that was causing problems.
At first the hospital staff were great. They treated us very well. A doctor asked if I wanted to go straight in for surgery to repair my kneecap. I told him I wasn't sure and asked what his opinion was (in Canada, the doctors typically tell US what is going on, not the opposite). He said it didn't matter, they could do it there, or it could wait until we get back to Canada. In my delirious state I told him I'd just wait until I got back to Canada.
Fast forward ~48 hours - in the meantime I had been in direct contact with my travel insurance, they were taking care of everything and just trying to get an ambulance lined up to get us back to Canada. The pediatrics staff came in and asked what we would like them to do with our two kids. I had no idea what they were talking about, but they said the kids were fixed up and ready to go! I still couldn't stand or sit up, or do anything for myself let alone my kids. My wife was in the same condition. My little girl was in a full body cast for her femurs. I thought there was no way our kids were all better and ready to leave the hospital, but they insisted they were and needed the bed space. My travel insurance and an admin at the hospital assured us that the kids wouldn't be going anywhere until rides were arranged to get us all comfortably back to Canada. Sure enough, the next day after the admin had left on holidays the pediatrics staff discharged our two kids to my wife's parents who fortunately were able to get there to take the kids to a nearby hotel. We finally ended up getting an ambulance arranged for the next day, but the hospital couldn't keep me or my wife for another day so they called the hotel shuttle to come pick us up and we spent a night in the hotel.
We finally made it back to Canada and were all four admitted back into the hospital. I was in for another week or so having surgery on my knee, my wife was in for another couple of days, and my four year old who was deemed "perfectly fine" had to be rushed to the children's hospital in Calgary because the hemorrhage on the back of his brain was pushing on his optical nerve and paralyzing his left eye, and he was kept there for about another week.
The whole experience in the US hospital was a joke. After the first 24 hours they treated us completely different. In their eyes we were "fixed" and they were ready for new clients. Maybe it was a bad hospital, who knows. But I have never been so happy to get back in to a Canadian hospital in my life.
Oh, and if anyone is curious how much I have paid so far in medical expenses or co-pays, the sum total comes out to roughly $0. My travel insurance is already into the hundreds of thousands that they have paid on my behalf.
Another misunderstanding is, insurance isnt healthcare. Insurance wasnt even a thing for average people until Reagan came in office and congress got together with insurance companies and doctors and figured out a way for everyone involved to make millions. Then the lawyers got wind.... doctors sold their souls for the money in the 80's and society is paying for it now. Nobody went bankrupt over medical bills until insurance was pushed to everyone and was offered on a regular basis to every worker. Insurance used to be a perk to hire the best of the best.
Now, with ACA, try asking a doctor what the cash price is for a procedure. They will either one, be crooked and give you a price, or 2, follow the rules and say they cannot accept cash, doing so will nullify contracts with insurance companies.
The biggest reason for rising costs at hospitals is payroll. Hiring administration personel to manage the paperwork and compliance officers to try and avoid a missed comma on a piece of paper that can result in a multi million dollar settlement. It isnt the procedures, its the overhead to prevent a lawsuit from the procedure.
I appreciate your insight as this has been my first and only experience with a non-Canadian medical system.
They patched you up and got you the fuck out of there in the cheapest manner that they could without you suspecting it.
Welcome to America.
In order for healthcare in this country to be fixed, the money and political bullshit have got to be somehow kept out of it.
Ok, I've said more than I wanted too....
Carry on Vitards....
Mike, if you want to discuss further shoot me a PM, we actually know each other and I would like to catch up if you have the time.
Some of the elective treatment can be a bit of a wait though. That is where we can improve. There is rarely/never a scenario though, where Canadians would need to sell the house to cover medical costs. I have never heard of such a case myself? And a “moto” injury really isn’t going to matter, because the treatment will happen regardless...
I really don’t get the Obamacare debate that I hear about (and admittedly don’t understand the system in the US currently).
There sure seems to be some hard left/right views on it, that is for sure!
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