Seelys comments on Euro speed

kkawboy14
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10/5/2017 9:20am Edited Date/Time 10/9/2017 4:29pm
On the podcast he seemed truly blown away by a lot of the guys raw speed.

Can these guys ever catch up if they don't start getting faster tracks to race on?
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GuyB
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10/5/2017 10:00am
Huh. At Indiana, Herlings described some of the GP tracks as small and tight.
Motofinne
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10/5/2017 10:05am
Getting faster tracks to race on? Wut?!

The US national tracks are way faster and more open compared to the majority of GP tracks.
RangerLee
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10/5/2017 10:16am
Seely's comments were on how fast they were going in the mud. He stated the rain started and they were going just as fast in the mud as before the rain and he could not comprehend that speed.
10/5/2017 10:48am Edited Date/Time 10/5/2017 11:08am
Have you ever created a sensable thread?

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kkawboy14
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10/5/2017 10:57am
GuyB wrote:
Huh. At Indiana, Herlings described some of the GP tracks as small and tight.
Exactly so how did they get so fast?
10/5/2017 10:58am
Barcia may have been a better choice in that respect then, re mud. Guess bike availability came into the equation and killed that idea. Still, Cole did the best he can and I hope it's given him a whole bunch of new motovation and measurement of outdoor speed to reach for. Cole Seely fan right here. Love his BMX inspired SX style
kkawboy14
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10/5/2017 10:59am
Motofinne wrote:
Getting faster tracks to race on? Wut?!

The US national tracks are way faster and more open compared to the majority of GP tracks.
So why are they slower?
kkawboy14
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10/5/2017 11:01am
RangerLee wrote:
Seely's comments were on how fast they were going in the mud. He stated the rain started and they were going just as fast in the...
Seely's comments were on how fast they were going in the mud. He stated the rain started and they were going just as fast in the mud as before the rain and he could not comprehend that speed.
He also said they were launching the big stuff right out of the box and it took him awhile
GuyB
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10/5/2017 11:05am
kkawboy14 wrote:
Exactly so how did they get so fast?
They focus on motocross year-round. Our guys go back and forth between Supercross and motocross. I think if our guys rode MX full-time their suspension setup (and potentially their riding style) might evolve to something closer to what the GP guys use.
wreckitrandy
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10/5/2017 11:07am
GuyB wrote:
Huh. At Indiana, Herlings described some of the GP tracks as small and tight.
kkawboy14 wrote:
Exactly so how did they get so fast?
Smaller, tighter tracks are slower. So they go slower to get faster.
Flip109
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10/5/2017 11:10am
GuyB wrote:
They focus on motocross year-round. Our guys go back and forth between Supercross and motocross. I think if our guys rode MX full-time their suspension setup...
They focus on motocross year-round. Our guys go back and forth between Supercross and motocross. I think if our guys rode MX full-time their suspension setup (and potentially their riding style) might evolve to something closer to what the GP guys use.
Ding ding ding! Can’t believe how some people just can’t grasp this. You’d think it was fakin rocket science lol
bvm111
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10/5/2017 11:14am
in
kkawboy14
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10/5/2017 11:19am
GuyB wrote:
They focus on motocross year-round. Our guys go back and forth between Supercross and motocross. I think if our guys rode MX full-time their suspension setup...
They focus on motocross year-round. Our guys go back and forth between Supercross and motocross. I think if our guys rode MX full-time their suspension setup (and potentially their riding style) might evolve to something closer to what the GP guys use.
Flip109 wrote:
Ding ding ding! Can’t believe how some people just can’t grasp this. You’d think it was fakin rocket science lol
I can grasp it, and I agree. In fact I think they get so used to stiff sx suspension that it's hard for them to get comfortable at softer mx settings.

So I guess the answer to the question is: they are never gonna catch up
MohMoto14
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10/5/2017 11:33am
GuyB wrote:
They focus on motocross year-round. Our guys go back and forth between Supercross and motocross. I think if our guys rode MX full-time their suspension setup...
They focus on motocross year-round. Our guys go back and forth between Supercross and motocross. I think if our guys rode MX full-time their suspension setup (and potentially their riding style) might evolve to something closer to what the GP guys use.
Flip109 wrote:
Ding ding ding! Can’t believe how some people just can’t grasp this. You’d think it was fakin rocket science lol
Yep and half their training is spent on perfectly prepped SX tracks. When the track is smooth we have the raw insanely fast speed. When it gets rough Americans struggle to keep the same intensity of just going all out for a whole moto. We also don't have as many mud races and because of that most Americans don't practice it either. also its alot easier to jump everything in the mud when you know the track which may have been why Seely was so surprised by the GP riders launching everything so quickly. Didn't one of the GP riders make a similar quote about the usgp, Americans can push further on a groomed track but when it's rough the GP riders excel? I could be wrong on that, just thought I remembered one of them saying something. Have a SX Des Nations and it would go way different. Lol
10/5/2017 11:53am
To be fair Matterly Basin probably isn't a great representation of the GP tracks.
Sideways
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10/5/2017 12:15pm
Imagine if Gajser wins Monster cup.

I would need to leave this place for a month lol.
10/5/2017 12:19pm
No two ways about it- European riders are fast.

Now the question being "Can these guys ever catch up?" is really about the MXDN- which appears to be losing attractiveness to many of the potential American riders. So, its not so much about US riders increasing speed but having an interest in the event.

Sure next year will be on American and that will surely help, but really I cannot envision the competitiveness with Euros being big concern in the future. The business of racing has changed. If team managers (not just Roger but those who are working with the riders all year long) are reluctant to have there athletes do it, its all a moot point.
Flip109
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10/5/2017 12:33pm
I think once the GP riders finally evolved out of their gooney ass riding style is when they finally caught up. Hell most of them scrub better than bubbles himself now. Combine that with pounding out motos year round on tracks like Lommel and Crazy sand over there, and all the rain they get year round. And they do this all year. Year after year. You have the makings of some motocross riders that eat sunbaked hardpack single line supercross riders for breakfast when the conditions go to hell. I mean seely is known fir his sx skills first. They ate his ass! ShockedLaughing
SKlein
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10/5/2017 12:38pm
GuyB wrote:
They focus on motocross year-round. Our guys go back and forth between Supercross and motocross. I think if our guys rode MX full-time their suspension setup...
They focus on motocross year-round. Our guys go back and forth between Supercross and motocross. I think if our guys rode MX full-time their suspension setup (and potentially their riding style) might evolve to something closer to what the GP guys use.
Flip109 wrote:
Ding ding ding! Can’t believe how some people just can’t grasp this. You’d think it was fakin rocket science lol
kkawboy14 wrote:
I can grasp it, and I agree. In fact I think they get so used to stiff sx suspension that it's hard for them to get...
I can grasp it, and I agree. In fact I think they get so used to stiff sx suspension that it's hard for them to get comfortable at softer mx settings.

So I guess the answer to the question is: they are never gonna catch up
Who is they, because Tomac still has won 5 out of his 6 USGP moto's. Clearly he benefits from the races being on home soil, but I find it hard to believe our top guys will "never catch up" when they are already beating top GP competition.
Motofinne
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10/5/2017 12:47pm
Flip109 wrote:
I think once the GP riders finally evolved out of their gooney ass riding style is when they finally caught up. Hell most of them scrub...
I think once the GP riders finally evolved out of their gooney ass riding style is when they finally caught up. Hell most of them scrub better than bubbles himself now. Combine that with pounding out motos year round on tracks like Lommel and Crazy sand over there, and all the rain they get year round. And they do this all year. Year after year. You have the makings of some motocross riders that eat sunbaked hardpack single line supercross riders for breakfast when the conditions go to hell. I mean seely is known fir his sx skills first. They ate his ass! ShockedLaughing
I agree with a lot you say. The Euros that are on the top level now have grown up with internet, videos etc watching the American style of riding. The aggressiveness, the intensity etc. The major advantage that Americans had is gone.

It's like Matthes once in awhile mentions. He went to the German GP in 2009 and the difference in riding style was massive between the MX1 and MX2(kids) class. The MX2 riders looked like the Americans. They had the intensity and aggressiveness that the old guys in MX1 lacked. Now they are in the MXGP class. I think that is the most significant part of why Europeans have caught the Americans. Mix the aggressiveness with the technicality and diversity of tracks and conditions and there we have it.

I might be wrong but that is my theory on it.
10/5/2017 12:59pm
GuyB wrote:
They focus on motocross year-round. Our guys go back and forth between Supercross and motocross. I think if our guys rode MX full-time their suspension setup...
They focus on motocross year-round. Our guys go back and forth between Supercross and motocross. I think if our guys rode MX full-time their suspension setup (and potentially their riding style) might evolve to something closer to what the GP guys use.
Flip109 wrote:
Ding ding ding! Can’t believe how some people just can’t grasp this. You’d think it was fakin rocket science lol
So you guys put the blame on suspension set ups? Interesting
agn5009
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10/5/2017 1:15pm
You must have a lot of time of your hands to come up with so many dumb threads.
10/5/2017 1:17pm
GuyB wrote:
They focus on motocross year-round. Our guys go back and forth between Supercross and motocross. I think if our guys rode MX full-time their suspension setup...
They focus on motocross year-round. Our guys go back and forth between Supercross and motocross. I think if our guys rode MX full-time their suspension setup (and potentially their riding style) might evolve to something closer to what the GP guys use.
Flip109 wrote:
Ding ding ding! Can’t believe how some people just can’t grasp this. You’d think it was fakin rocket science lol
MohMoto14 wrote:
Yep and half their training is spent on perfectly prepped SX tracks. When the track is smooth we have the raw insanely fast speed. When it...
Yep and half their training is spent on perfectly prepped SX tracks. When the track is smooth we have the raw insanely fast speed. When it gets rough Americans struggle to keep the same intensity of just going all out for a whole moto. We also don't have as many mud races and because of that most Americans don't practice it either. also its alot easier to jump everything in the mud when you know the track which may have been why Seely was so surprised by the GP riders launching everything so quickly. Didn't one of the GP riders make a similar quote about the usgp, Americans can push further on a groomed track but when it's rough the GP riders excel? I could be wrong on that, just thought I remembered one of them saying something. Have a SX Des Nations and it would go way different. Lol
Idk about the roughness part. Our top guys shred when it’s rough. I mean Tomac was killing it in the main events when it was gnarly
10/5/2017 1:35pm
GuyB wrote:
They focus on motocross year-round. Our guys go back and forth between Supercross and motocross. I think if our guys rode MX full-time their suspension setup...
They focus on motocross year-round. Our guys go back and forth between Supercross and motocross. I think if our guys rode MX full-time their suspension setup (and potentially their riding style) might evolve to something closer to what the GP guys use.
Flip109 wrote:
Ding ding ding! Can’t believe how some people just can’t grasp this. You’d think it was fakin rocket science lol
So you guys put the blame on suspension set ups? Interesting
The thing I struggle to understand is-

during the two win streaks team USA have enjoyed, you guys spent the same portion of your year racing supercross as you do now. And you were winning then!
Further to this, Im sure i recall these words "the American riders are so strong BECAUSE they have the intensity of supercross to condition them"

So years ago you were THANKING supercross for your superiority, but now you're BLAMING supercross?!

WTH??
kkawboy14
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10/5/2017 1:39pm
agn5009 wrote:
You must have a lot of time of your hands to come up with so many dumb threads.
I do.... I must have as much time as you since you respond to dumb threads and then I respond to your dumb posts and then you respond to my dumb posts and then.....
PRM31
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10/5/2017 1:59pm
Some variety of soil would probably help US Nationals riders.

A 17 SX and then 12 round MX series is not optimal for developing MX skills. Not sure it really makes a huge difference, but I think it does detract form MX somewhat.
mx_563
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10/5/2017 2:06pm
Despite having a tougher schedule and two completely different series, the US was able to beat the Euros for a couple of decades. Now suddenly we're going to blame SX? Were DeMaria and Bervoets not focused entirely on MX, like Cairolli and Herlings are today????

US riders invest hundreds of thousands of dollars building practice tracks in Florida. What kind of private facilities do the GP guys have? How many GP riders even have a private facility?

It pains me to say this as an American but the only way out of this slump is to stop making excuses.

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