Seattle Mudder: Are Idiotic Contraptions Inferior to Electric Simplicity?

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4/7/2018 10:55 PM

I wonder if an electric bike would have blown up, overheated, or fried a clutch tonight. Don't get me wrong, I love the drama that a bunch of spinning metal provides. I love overly complicated solutions, like someone setting up a series of unneeded events. Think dominoes falling into a maze, then a ball jumps out of nowhere and onto a sweet little crossbow that shoots it at a button to start a coffee maker. What could go wrong? Hopefully nothing, but it'd be fun to tinker with until it did work, just like an engine is. Smoking, revving without moving, spectacular breakdowns where something shoots out the cases and the like are awesome to see and even to experience if you aren't generally hot-headed. But....none of that crap would have happened on an Alta, right? Does this make Alta, notwithstanding the range issue, a better logical choice for the nastiest conditions? Is it, dare I say, a better DIRT bike since it doesn't have a crapload of mechanical things that render it useless when pushed hard?

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4/7/2018 11:04 PM

Could an electric bike somehow malfunction and electrify the standing water?

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4/7/2018 11:06 PM

Where's my flamethrower

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4/7/2018 11:09 PM

As hard as the mud is on an engine, I'd bet the battery wouldn't have lasted through that race. Mud and sand drain power

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4/7/2018 11:16 PM

Zacka 161 wrote:

Could an electric bike somehow malfunction and electrify the standing water?

I dont know. I think humans are still trying to figure out how to waterproof things. It may take another couple decades. You may want to check beck then. Maybe that modern marvel will be solved but who knows.

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4/7/2018 11:20 PM

Zacka 161 wrote:

Could an electric bike somehow malfunction and electrify the standing water?

JBernard_401 wrote:

I dont know. I think humans are still trying to figure out how to waterproof things. It may take another couple decades. You may want to check beck then. Maybe that modern marvel will be solved but who knows.

I mean all the teams still wrap their electrics in plastic to stop the water getting in... waterproofing has gotten much better with electronics though, most new phones are completely waterproof

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4/7/2018 11:24 PM

Track and Trail wrote:

I wonder if an electric bike would have blown up, overheated, or fried a clutch tonight. Don't get me wrong, I love the drama that a bunch of spinning metal provides. I love overly complicated solutions, like someone setting up a series of unneeded events. Think dominoes falling into a maze, then a ball jumps out of nowhere and onto a sweet little crossbow that shoots it at a button to start a coffee maker. What could go wrong? Hopefully nothing, but it'd be fun to tinker with until it did work, just like an engine is. Smoking, revving without moving, spectacular breakdowns where something shoots out the cases and the like are awesome to see and even to experience if you aren't generally hot-headed. But....none of that crap would have happened on an Alta, right? Does this make Alta, notwithstanding the range issue, a better logical choice for the nastiest conditions? Is it, dare I say, a better DIRT bike since it doesn't have a crapload of mechanical things that render it useless when pushed hard?

In theory, I'd say yes. But all that mud adds more spinning, more weight, that equals more battery life being used.

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4/7/2018 11:32 PM

They should scotch guard the track....

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4/7/2018 11:36 PM

Man, at this age I'd rather have a dead battery than a blown engine. Maybe its just me.

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4/8/2018 2:51 AM
Edited Date/Time: 4/8/2018 2:52 AM

Track and Trail wrote:

Man, at this age I'd rather have a dead battery than a blown engine. Maybe its just me.

I just had a vision of the track safety crew attending safety meetings about the proper use of the jump box they will be carrying instead of having to hear about the technic to get the bike into neutral so vitards don't call them idiots

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4/8/2018 3:22 AM

Oh great, now we’re getting electric bike nazis. Why are internal combustion engines now idiotic contraptions? If electric bikes are good, they’ll take over. Until then, take a pill.

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4/8/2018 4:02 AM

It is an interesting question. The Altas go into power limiting mode when the battery gets too hot from prolonged high power output. But power is proportional to motor speed (to a point, then remains constant), and you'd have to think you'd only be up to midrange max during a race like this.

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4/8/2018 4:22 AM

Graybeard wrote:

Oh great, now we’re getting electric bike nazis. Why are internal combustion engines now idiotic contraptions? If electric bikes are good, they’ll take over. Until then, take a pill.

It's just a discussion ,god forbid any discussion about new technology that is fast approaching down the pipe line . Someone should save a pill for you .

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4/8/2018 4:30 AM

JustMX wrote:

I just had a vision of the track safety crew attending safety meetings about the proper use of the jump box they will be carrying instead of having to hear about the technic to get the bike into neutral so vitards don't call them idiots

Wtf would they have a jump box????

All the e start bikes already carry a battery as is. Now those might need a jump box in order to start the engine but a jump box won’t do shit for a battery powered bike.

Is Feld or the AMA providing special instructions for the e start bikes to the safety crew or flaggers?

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4/8/2018 4:36 AM

Graybeard wrote:

Oh great, now we’re getting electric bike nazis. Why are internal combustion engines now idiotic contraptions? If electric bikes are good, they’ll take over. Until then, take a pill.

MR. X wrote:

It's just a discussion ,god forbid any discussion about new technology that is fast approaching down the pipe line . Someone should save a pill for you .

Listen to MR X. He is correct.

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4/8/2018 5:02 AM
Edited Date/Time: 4/8/2018 5:02 AM

TbonesPop wrote:

As hard as the mud is on an engine, I'd bet the battery wouldn't have lasted through that race. Mud and sand drain power

There is no engine in an electric bike. It does however have a motor. Yes, get ready for a whole lot of new terminology. Well, if our industry doesn't die before a plethora of electric bikes hit the market.

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4/8/2018 5:38 AM

TbonesPop wrote:

As hard as the mud is on an engine, I'd bet the battery wouldn't have lasted through that race. Mud and sand drain power

gt80rider wrote:

There is no engine in an electric bike. It does however have a motor. Yes, get ready for a whole lot of new terminology. Well, if our industry doesn't die before a plethora of electric bikes hit the market.

Is this Hillbilly? JK he always corrected between the two even though I ride a motorcycle and not an enginecycle.

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Take it to the limit, one more time!

4/8/2018 6:51 AM

TbonesPop wrote:

As hard as the mud is on an engine, I'd bet the battery wouldn't have lasted through that race. Mud and sand drain power

gt80rider wrote:

There is no engine in an electric bike. It does however have a motor. Yes, get ready for a whole lot of new terminology. Well, if our industry doesn't die before a plethora of electric bikes hit the market.

mx317 wrote:

Is this Hillbilly? JK he always corrected between the two even though I ride a motorcycle and not an enginecycle.

He tries to correct but does not know the actual definitions of either.

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Tomac and/or Anderson for 2020.....

4/8/2018 7:57 AM

An Alta would have been like cheating. Map 1 so no battery shortage. No radiators, clutch, shifting etc.

Up to now, I never had considered that potential advantage in those conditions, but wow.

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4/8/2018 8:02 AM

The "engine" OEMs would be protesting the decision to shorten the races, hoping the Alta battery wouldn't make it the 12 minutes + 1

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4/8/2018 8:03 AM

Now we are onto the real fear of DC. There is always at least one mud moto at LL, they are afraid of the Alta showing everyone up in that moto! (J/K - being sarcastic)

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4/8/2018 9:48 AM
Edited Date/Time: 4/8/2018 9:49 AM

Graybeard wrote:

Oh great, now we’re getting electric bike nazis. Why are internal combustion engines now idiotic contraptions? If electric bikes are good, they’ll take over. Until then, take a pill.

From an efficiency point of view they are compared to electric motors.

I have a feeling in the next 50 to 100 years civilization will judge us as idiotic for relying so heavily on such a harmful and inefficient power source.

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4/8/2018 9:50 AM

TbonesPop wrote:

As hard as the mud is on an engine, I'd bet the battery wouldn't have lasted through that race. Mud and sand drain power

gt80rider wrote:

There is no engine in an electric bike. It does however have a motor. Yes, get ready for a whole lot of new terminology. Well, if our industry doesn't die before a plethora of electric bikes hit the market.

what, you think you're a genius because you know the difference between an engine and a motor? do you think that they just invented motors yesterday? electric motors are older than internal combustion...

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4/8/2018 2:33 PM

Graybeard wrote:

Oh great, now we’re getting electric bike nazis. Why are internal combustion engines now idiotic contraptions? If electric bikes are good, they’ll take over. Until then, take a pill.

Far from a nazi, friend. No agenda beyond a salacious title bringing the eyes either.

Of course they're idiotic contraptions. Isn't it obvious? Nothing wrong with that. Some problems are worth having. Not in a race though.

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4/8/2018 2:39 PM

Zacka 161 wrote:

Could an electric bike somehow malfunction and electrify the standing water?

One can always dream. How awesome would Plessinger's belly flop have been if he was electro-worming when he hit the water. Shoot, on a rainy day the electricity will shoot backward up the raindrops and into the entire stadium! That'll get butts off the seats.

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4/8/2018 2:45 PM
Edited Date/Time: 4/8/2018 2:47 PM

Graybeard wrote:

Oh great, now we’re getting electric bike nazis. Why are internal combustion engines now idiotic contraptions? If electric bikes are good, they’ll take over. Until then, take a pill.

Internal combustion engines may have been refined a lot since their invention but as an engineering solution they aren’t very elegant or efficient.

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4/8/2018 2:47 PM

Johnny Depp wrote:

An Alta would have been like cheating. Map 1 so no battery shortage. No radiators, clutch, shifting etc.

Up to now, I never had considered that potential advantage in those conditions, but wow.

Johnny gets it.

Even sans breakdown, not needing to shift would have been huge last night.

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4/8/2018 8:17 PM

Track and Trail wrote:

Man, at this age I'd rather have a dead battery than a blown engine. Maybe its just me.

JustMX wrote:

I just had a vision of the track safety crew attending safety meetings about the proper use of the jump box they will be carrying instead of having to hear about the technic to get the bike into neutral so vitards don't call them idiots

jasonward73 wrote:

Wtf would they have a jump box????

All the e start bikes already carry a battery as is. Now those might need a jump box in order to start the engine but a jump box won’t do shit for a battery powered bike.

Is Feld or the AMA providing special instructions for the e start bikes to the safety crew or flaggers?

Geez,

Saying this is going to get old, even if it is so applicable....

Lighten up francis.....

It was a freaking joke

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4/8/2018 8:31 PM
Edited Date/Time: 4/8/2018 8:32 PM

"Infernal" Contraptions is what ICE vehicles (and steam driven powerplants) were labelled as, a long, long time ago. by many with views that tended towards the Luddite .

As for Electric Shocks in water / liquids with E Bikes - look to the vast amount of Electronics / E Motors that are submerged. Do it right, and you're OK - do it wrong and, you're not.
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4/8/2018 8:37 PM
Edited Date/Time: 4/8/2018 8:38 PM

I swear people are getting dumber by the minute...

Anyone who has owned an alta long term will tell you they previously were very prone to heat issues.

A hard pro at a fast track that takes power (in prime conditions no mud) could overheat them in 3-4 laps and it would slow dramatically.

Almost ALL POWER usage by people is heat conversion. We take stored energy and convert it to useful work, and in the process it produces heat

So the alta... Would be prone to its own heat related failures

Ill never forget the day I set a top dollar electric rc car on fire just by driving it around for 20 minutes. Was an expensive moment that in a larger scale incident could have been deadly.
That car was problem free most its life and so are all of them on the market... Just wasnt its day

If we had 20 altas on the track, ill bet money at least 1 would have broken in some form or fashion

batteries dont have the power density even remotely close to that of gasoline and other fuels, and as such until they do, hydro carbons will still be used.

Cant fly planes long distance on a battery

Drone owners know this... And the market for drone generators using combustion engine is growing

Very soon electric will on par for avg guys. But it will have all its own issues.

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