School me on Mountain bikes for fun or training

GalagaOnMYArm
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6/23/2017 9:20am
Some elite level world cup racers are "trying" 29ers now. Most of the racers under 6' will be back on 27.5" by the end of the season. I didn't know we were suggesting bike for an elite level world cup downhiller that was looking for thousandths of a second. I thought it was for a first time mountain bike buyer.

My bad I guess.
Evoracer
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6/23/2017 9:36am
Don't let others steer you into what you will and will not hate as a motocrosser. I've been MX since '73, MTB for 15+ years, and my bikes have morphed into this...

The Shop

FGR01
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6/23/2017 9:43am
Evoracer wrote:
Don't let others steer you into what you will and will not hate as a motocrosser. I've been MX since '73, MTB for 15+ years, and...
Don't let others steer you into what you will and will not hate as a motocrosser. I've been MX since '73, MTB for 15+ years, and my bikes have morphed into this...

Yeah, but judging by your profile pic, you ride vintage bikes. So you're used to going slow with no suspension !

Just kidding... hahahaa

As for those links to pinkbike above.. 1 bike is old 2x10 setup and the other is a "poorman's 1x10" conversion. Try to stick with modern 1x11 Sram or Shimano as they work so much better than the old stuff and give you the range you need if you ever go on hills.
Evoracer
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6/23/2017 9:49am
FGR01 wrote:
Yeah, but judging by your profile pic, you ride vintage bikes. So you're used to going slow with no suspension ! Just kidding... hahahaa As for...
Yeah, but judging by your profile pic, you ride vintage bikes. So you're used to going slow with no suspension !

Just kidding... hahahaa

As for those links to pinkbike above.. 1 bike is old 2x10 setup and the other is a "poorman's 1x10" conversion. Try to stick with modern 1x11 Sram or Shimano as they work so much better than the old stuff and give you the range you need if you ever go on hills.
Haha, no...

tsmitty2661
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6/23/2017 9:58am
Im opposite of most people here and race mtb and do moto for fun. Race downhill and enduro mtb. Ive owned specialized enduros and stumpjumpers, santa cruz nomads and hightowers, specialized demos and santa cruz v10s.
First you gotta decide how you want to ride, pound xc laps and get stamina, or downhill and hit berms and jumps and rock gardens, or do both. For 1 do it all bike i would get a 140-160mm 29er, but that is what i like and suites how i ride. That would be a specialized stumpjumper/enduro, santa cruz hightower, yeti sb5.5c, etc. etc. Hardtail 29 will be the fastest xc bike, theres no question, however thats not the funnest bike to ride, doesnt like to go down hills fast. So the next step above that would be 100-130mm full suspension "trail bike". Then above that is your 140-170mm bikes which will be your do it all bike. Downhill bikes only like to go downhill as they are 8" of suspension. Another thing you will want to decide is what wheel size. New bikes now a days are 27.5" or 29". 29ers are faster in the straights where as 27.5s are better in tight technical stuff because of the smaller wheel. Ive moved to a santa cruz hightower for my xc/enduro bike, dont want a 27.5 because i am faster on a 29er. That was proven by strava on a trail ive done 100s of times, going up and down. Ive raced my hightower in 2 dh races and have won the race and gotten 3rd (after dropping my chain and putting it back on mid run) in CAT 1 (class under pro). Some people prefer 27.5, others 29, thats something you need to figure out. Picture below is on a Snata Cruz Hightower 29er

PRM31
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6/23/2017 10:01am
This is timely, I was just looking at MTN bike info. I'd be riding local back roads which tend to be quite steep, some trails and some down hill. I could make an insane downhill on my own property.

Frame size for 5' 8" with ~30" inseam?
swedishfishmx
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6/23/2017 10:04am
Meh, no need for the douche comments. 29ers are a great option, especially for someone just starting out. Get whatever you feel most comfortable on.

Shimano 1x10 or SRAM 1x11. Don't get Shimano's 1x11. It's not that good in comparison to their 1x10.
Motodave15
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6/23/2017 10:05am
Im opposite of most people here and race mtb and do moto for fun. Race downhill and enduro mtb. Ive owned specialized enduros and stumpjumpers, santa...
Im opposite of most people here and race mtb and do moto for fun. Race downhill and enduro mtb. Ive owned specialized enduros and stumpjumpers, santa cruz nomads and hightowers, specialized demos and santa cruz v10s.
First you gotta decide how you want to ride, pound xc laps and get stamina, or downhill and hit berms and jumps and rock gardens, or do both. For 1 do it all bike i would get a 140-160mm 29er, but that is what i like and suites how i ride. That would be a specialized stumpjumper/enduro, santa cruz hightower, yeti sb5.5c, etc. etc. Hardtail 29 will be the fastest xc bike, theres no question, however thats not the funnest bike to ride, doesnt like to go down hills fast. So the next step above that would be 100-130mm full suspension "trail bike". Then above that is your 140-170mm bikes which will be your do it all bike. Downhill bikes only like to go downhill as they are 8" of suspension. Another thing you will want to decide is what wheel size. New bikes now a days are 27.5" or 29". 29ers are faster in the straights where as 27.5s are better in tight technical stuff because of the smaller wheel. Ive moved to a santa cruz hightower for my xc/enduro bike, dont want a 27.5 because i am faster on a 29er. That was proven by strava on a trail ive done 100s of times, going up and down. Ive raced my hightower in 2 dh races and have won the race and gotten 3rd (after dropping my chain and putting it back on mid run) in CAT 1 (class under pro). Some people prefer 27.5, others 29, thats something you need to figure out. Picture below is on a Snata Cruz Hightower 29er

Not to derail the thread.... How the hell can i get more confident riding rock gardens? Thats literally my biggest issue...I go at a moderate pace through them, but cant find the confidence to jump through them and or wick it up faster.
swedishfishmx
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6/23/2017 10:06am
PRM31 wrote:
This is timely, I was just looking at MTN bike info. I'd be riding local back roads which tend to be quite steep, some trails and...
This is timely, I was just looking at MTN bike info. I'd be riding local back roads which tend to be quite steep, some trails and some down hill. I could make an insane downhill on my own property.

Frame size for 5' 8" with ~30" inseam?
Medium all day long
seth505
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6/23/2017 10:13am
Motodave15 wrote:
Evidence B... However i still have not blasted that jump like that, I feel very weird in the air on a mtn bike [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2017/06/23/201500/s1200_Bike_2.0_edit_2.jpg[/img]
Evidence B...

However i still have not blasted that jump like that, I feel very weird in the air on a mtn bike

Haha nice, I knew someone would recognize that jump.
6/23/2017 10:16am
I'd prefer new to learn on my first real bike.

It's basically for 100pct michigan rec area trails. I can't believe they are all that crazy. A 29 hardtail seems best bang for buck. Unless I found a crazy sale on a full suspension.
6/23/2017 10:17am
I appreciate the links guys, but I barely know what I'm looking at
three9zero
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6/23/2017 10:18am
Evoracer wrote:
Don't let others steer you into what you will and will not hate as a motocrosser. I've been MX since '73, MTB for 15+ years, and...
Don't let others steer you into what you will and will not hate as a motocrosser. I've been MX since '73, MTB for 15+ years, and my bikes have morphed into this...

FGR01 wrote:
Yeah, but judging by your profile pic, you ride vintage bikes. So you're used to going slow with no suspension ! Just kidding... hahahaa As for...
Yeah, but judging by your profile pic, you ride vintage bikes. So you're used to going slow with no suspension !

Just kidding... hahahaa

As for those links to pinkbike above.. 1 bike is old 2x10 setup and the other is a "poorman's 1x10" conversion. Try to stick with modern 1x11 Sram or Shimano as they work so much better than the old stuff and give you the range you need if you ever go on hills.
He wants to spend $ 2000 max so I dont think he's gonna get a newer 1x11 bike with good components for that price range, lots of good slightly older bikes out there that work just fine with 1-10.
38special
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6/23/2017 10:21am
I'd prefer new to learn on my first real bike. It's basically for 100pct michigan rec area trails. I can't believe they are all that crazy...
I'd prefer new to learn on my first real bike.

It's basically for 100pct michigan rec area trails. I can't believe they are all that crazy. A 29 hardtail seems best bang for buck. Unless I found a crazy sale on a full suspension.
I ride the same trails here in Michigan. I don't want to post anything that will turn into a pissing match, as the other posters seem pretty "core" with their bike recommendations, but you are on the right track with your thinking....
tsmitty2661
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6/23/2017 10:22am
Motodave15 wrote:
Not to derail the thread.... How the hell can i get more confident riding rock gardens? Thats literally my biggest issue...I go at a moderate pace...
Not to derail the thread.... How the hell can i get more confident riding rock gardens? Thats literally my biggest issue...I go at a moderate pace through them, but cant find the confidence to jump through them and or wick it up faster.
Try to find the smoothest way through it. Fastest line might not be the straight line either, especially if you wreck. Pumping helps a lot. One thing i learned that helped me get faster was not to just barrel through it and stay light on the bike and let the suspension do its job. If there is relatively smooth sections of the rock garden thats where you want to push down and compress your suspension, then pop up a tad to get you over the rough stuff. But sometimes you dont have the option to do that and you just have to barrel through it
seth505
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6/23/2017 10:25am
I'd prefer new to learn on my first real bike. It's basically for 100pct michigan rec area trails. I can't believe they are all that crazy...
I'd prefer new to learn on my first real bike.

It's basically for 100pct michigan rec area trails. I can't believe they are all that crazy. A 29 hardtail seems best bang for buck. Unless I found a crazy sale on a full suspension.
38special wrote:
I ride the same trails here in Michigan. I don't want to post anything that will turn into a pissing match, as the other posters seem...
I ride the same trails here in Michigan. I don't want to post anything that will turn into a pissing match, as the other posters seem pretty "core" with their bike recommendations, but you are on the right track with your thinking....
Agreed
Falcon
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6/23/2017 10:26am
I'd prefer new to learn on my first real bike. It's basically for 100pct michigan rec area trails. I can't believe they are all that crazy...
I'd prefer new to learn on my first real bike.

It's basically for 100pct michigan rec area trails. I can't believe they are all that crazy. A 29 hardtail seems best bang for buck. Unless I found a crazy sale on a full suspension.
Without knowing what the trail system is like in Michigan, I'd say you are on the right track as long as you're not planning to go fast down hills or jump much of anything. For trails that "anyone" can ride, a hardtail is fine, and a 29er will help you maintain your momentum.
loftyair
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riverside, CA US
6/23/2017 10:26am
Motodave15 wrote:
Evidence B... However i still have not blasted that jump like that, I feel very weird in the air on a mtn bike [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2017/06/23/201500/s1200_Bike_2.0_edit_2.jpg[/img]
Evidence B...

However i still have not blasted that jump like that, I feel very weird in the air on a mtn bike

I was hitting those same jumps last Saturday on a 26" hardtail jumper. Most the rest of mtn sucked, with smallish wheels, not much front and no rear suspension. That particular jump was even harsh on landing. At least the big side. Landings not steep enough. Anyway, a full 29 suspender best for that mtn.
bigmaico
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Kingwood, TX US
6/23/2017 10:51am Edited Date/Time 6/23/2017 10:51am
Just went through this my self.

But first a little lead up to what I did.

I was laid off on 2/1/17 & started to gain weight, so I got the old Wall-Mart "MTB" down off the hanger on the wall.

I started using it because the Bike Trails\ Green belts around here are really beaten up by all the tree roots & having had broken back, I can't seem to run.

The Wall-Mart "MTB is a heavy old POS, So I stated looking for a better bike & was told by a few bike shops that I needed a "Comfort" type of bike because of my bad back.

I ask a about a entry level full suspension bike & was advised that it would be too rough on my back.

I thought that's what I'm riding now & it's not to bad, just the wrong sized frame ( I'm 6' with a 31 inch inseam) so I started looking at all the different bike in my price range, about $500 max the wife would shit If I spent more while I'm not working.

Keep checking Craig's list for weeks & then I found a Diamond Back 29er Recoil that was brand new in the box! Retail is between $600 to $650.

I got it for $450 with a extra set of WBT Bronson Comp tire's & it works great for me.


Ride it 11 miles about every day & I've lost about 15 pounds, I can now run about 5 medium hard laps around the MX track where before I was pulling off after 3 slow laps & was outta breath.

Go check out the local bike shops & see what they have & then find a local MTB group & ask what they ride & way.

You might even get to try out a few different MTB"s!

Good luck
rosebud441
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6/23/2017 10:53am
seth505 wrote:
Most fun/ do everything good bike, I'd say get a 130mm to 160mm travel 27.5 full suspension bike. Evidence A [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2017/06/23/201495/s1200_seth_horns_snowsummit2.jpg[/img]
Most fun/ do everything good bike, I'd say get a 130mm to 160mm travel 27.5 full suspension bike.

Evidence A


sweet pic Seth Dude
TeamGreen
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6/23/2017 10:57am
I appreciate the links guys, but I barely know what I'm looking at
Go and rent a coupl'a different bikes on a nearby trail system or hill and see what ya think.
Madmax31
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6/23/2017 11:04am Edited Date/Time 6/23/2017 11:06am
I had an old Specialized full suspension bike from about 2001. It was a $3,500 bike at the time that I got on discount for $2,200. I put a lot of miles on that thing.

Last Summer I found a 29" hard tail Diamondback $550 retail bike for $212.00, as an Amazon return. I read up on it, and found one review said that it was the best $500 you could buy.

The first time out without really trying I broke 2 of my 3 all time records at a place I frequent. I know most of you wouldn't be caught dead on a sub $2K bike, but I love it!

The forks suck and I plan to upgrade when I find a decent pair of used ones.
6/23/2017 11:16am
seth505 wrote:
Most fun/ do everything good bike, I'd say get a 130mm to 160mm travel 27.5 full suspension bike. Evidence A [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2017/06/23/201495/s1200_seth_horns_snowsummit2.jpg[/img]
Most fun/ do everything good bike, I'd say get a 130mm to 160mm travel 27.5 full suspension bike.

Evidence A


rosebud441 wrote:
sweet pic Seth Dude
Sooo much good info on this thread and this a nice pic.
c0ncEpT
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Harrison Twp., MI US
6/23/2017 11:23am
I have a 27.5 full suspension bike and I like it on our Michigan rec trails.

IMO I would be faster on a hard tail 29er but the full suspension is just so damn nice on the down hills.
6/23/2017 11:23am
Don't quite get the 29er hate, lot of the pros at the DH race at Sea Otter this year were on 29ers.
swedishfishmx
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6/23/2017 11:46am
I really like my Specialized SJ. It's not super light or heavy but it does everything I want it to do. I've raced a couple races on it now and I think it's way more fun than my true xc bike.

The last time I rode my Husky was back in January. Cycling is just as much fun and way cheaper. It's nice living within 30 minutes of 8 really good trail systems.



Dropper posts are awesome. Well worth the money.

walent215
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Ridgecrest, CA US
6/23/2017 12:03pm
three9zero wrote:
Look for a new(er) "enduro" bike, they work great for trail riding, climbing, decending, park and a bit of DH. If you live in Michigan there...
Look for a new(er) "enduro" bike, they work great for trail riding, climbing, decending, park and a bit of DH. If you live in Michigan there is all kinds of good riding, head up to Boyne for some lift access for a weekend, or ride trails. Don't buy a peice of shit to save money, the newer bikes are waaaaaay better and more versitile than older stuff. If you can buy a newer bike with front and rear suspension you will thank yourself. I own 2 bikes(a hard tail, and an enduro), my hard tail has not came off the wall in my garage for 3 years....Good models to look for would be a Giant Reign, Trek Fuel, Scott Genius, Devinci Spartan, Specialized enduro, Santa Cruz bronson. Happy trails. I own a Giant Reign and use it everywhere, trails, park laps, DH, jumping. I upgraded the brakes to Shimano Zee models with the 8' rotors. We live at a small ski hill and do park laps with it, head out on single track with it, and go out to B.C and do DH with it, works great.



Reign owner here as well..i ride mine to work, trails etc...great bike....i don't mind the weight either...it just means I'm getting a better workout...lol
BobbyLight
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Lamp, NC US
6/23/2017 12:23pm Edited Date/Time 6/23/2017 1:11pm
If you are just getting into it, don't bother with full suspension unless you are willing to open up that wallet. You may catch a good deal used, but if you are looking at new budget bikes, you will get a much better bike going hardtail. Don't let the "full suspension is always better" thing get into your head because a well kitted HT will treat you better than a shitty FS. Infact many prefer hardtails, especially in places like michigan with no real mountains.

Where you will be riding/ what kind of trails is the most important factor in deciding what equipment will be best. Let me give you a quick rundown on mountain biking as there is a ton of bikes that are meant for very different things and may better help you understand the marketing buzzwords and what to look for in a bike. The main "disciplines" or types of trail you will hear and see different bikes marketed towards (although there is some overlap) are loosely grouped as "XC/Trail", "All-Mountain/Enduro", and "Downhill".

XC comes from cross country racing, and full blown xc bikes are usually 100ish mm hardtails or >100ish mm F+R full suspension mountain bikes that are made for climbing fast, They have a very steep headtube (less rake with the fork, if you will), so they are not very comfortable or fun going downhill or when things get rowdy. Note that many entry level hardtails may be "XC oriented", but that does not mean they are as steep as actual race bikes and are usually fine for beginners. This is sort of where trail bikes come in, a bike marketed as a trail bike will typically be a 120mm ish hardtail or a 120-140mm full suspension and will have a headtube that is a bit slacker (more rake with the fork). These "trail bikes" is what I bet most people in your area are riding, being in michigan. They offer a happy medium, you will feel more comfortable going downhill but will also have great pedaling efficiency for climbing.

When it comes to talking about the actual TRAIL however, XC has a different meaning. If someone says that "those trails were pretty much xc", it just means it didn't have any huge downhills or gnarly unavoidable jumps. For instance, where I live in Charlotte nc , all the trails around the city are considered XC, due to lack of mountains and the grooming of the trails. Since you live in michigan, I assume you will most likely be riding "XC" trails. That is why I would recommend a trail bike.

All mountain and enduro are often thrown around interchangeably. This type of riding is loosely defined as "more than trail riding, but less than downhill". This is the kind of riding that you may be doing if you lived in the mountains or were going to be riding some gnarly terrain or hitting big jumps. These bikes are even slacker in the headtube and are typically full suspension mountain bikes with 140-160mm suspension all around, or a slack hardtail with a 140mm-160mm fork. These bikes are more capable going downhill but generally are not as easy to pedal uphill. I imagine this may be a bit overkill for michigan trails, but Ive only been to ohio so I dont know.

Downhill is all about doing exactly that. These bikes are meant for only pointing it down a hill and jumping. The bikes are super raked out for the jumps and are not made for pedaling, as you usually get a lift back to the top of the hill if you are riding in a bike park. note that you do not need a full blown DH bike to ride at a bike park, and most dont in my area. Here in NC many have a "trail" bike for riding around charlotte and may later get a "all mountain" or "enduro" bike if they find themselves running out of bike on their roadtrips to the mountains or the bike parks.

This is why the headtube angle and geometry of the frame is equally, if not more important than choosing between full suspenion vs hardtail. You can get a steep XC 100mm/100mm full suspension that will climb way better than a super slack all mountain hardtail. Likewise , you could shred a downhill faster and likely enjoy it more on the slack hardtail than the super steep XC full suspension bike.

Tire size is all personal preference, I am only 5'8 and prefer the 27.5 size (650b means the same thing fyi). I came from a bmx background and felt the 29er was not as nimble or as easy to jump as the 27.5. There are some nimble feeling 29ers out there I hear, I just never found one that was right for me! Most people are technically faster on the 29er, and you don't have to pay attention to your line choice as much, but I like to jump and pop off of every feature on the trail (not the fastest way) and I think the 27.5 just does this better. With you being so tall, I am sure the 29er would suit you well though.

The first thing you should do, is go to your local bike shop, and demo some bikes! This will give you an idea of what kind of bike you like, as well as if you want to stick with the sport. I recommend you buy a bike with "trail" geometry, and I recommend you go hardtail. Mountain biking is insanely expensive, and there are plenty of bikes out there that cost as much as a brand new ktm 450. I would definitely try and find a good used bike at first. Bikes depreciate worse than anything I have ever seen so some good stuff can be found. If you are buying new you have to pay to play. You are looking at ATLEAST $1000 and well into $1500 for a hardtail with a decent fork and components. On budget hardtails, usually the fork or the wheels suffer, and I'd rather have a better fork to start off with. If you wanted to go full suspension you are looking at 2500+ for something worthy.

If you like the idea of full suspension, consider a 27.5+ (plus) hardtail. These bikes are hardtails with wide 27.5 inch rims with extra wide tires. The wide tires give you a ton of traction and allows you to run low air pressures , which feels similar to having full suspension and gives you a cusiony ride. It will still climb great as well. For places like michigan I think it would be perfect. If you give me an idea of your budget I can give you some suggestions, but I really think demo-ing some bikes is what you should do first. The wheelsize decision should not be made blindly.

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