Scared of horsepower?

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5/8/2013 9:23 PM

Over the years I have noticed quite a few riders particularly on 450's, who seem to be intimidated by the bike's power. These guys wind the motor right against the rev limiter most of the time, kind of using it as a power limiter. To their girlfriends, and some other people, I'm sure it sounds like they are using all of the power that the bike has to give. In reality, they are keeping the motor beyond the point of max power, and are actually getting zero power when the limiter kicks in. And yes, I know that Barcia is famous for this. It has sort of become a trademark of his, But believe me, Barcia knows exactly where the power is, and when he really needs it the revs come down just enough to get off of the limiter for maximum thrust.

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5/8/2013 9:51 PM

That rev limiter works pretty good for making space when you're coming in hard on the inside.

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5/8/2013 10:19 PM

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5/8/2013 10:54 PM

I doubt anyone is scared of the horsepower, its more or less just their way of going fast. Sometimes, slower is faster.

Very, very few people need faster 450s, if anything, taking away some power would probably make them faster around the track.

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5/8/2013 11:01 PM

Very, very few people can even use all the power a 450 has to offer on every part of a track or in the woods. They are alot of bike to handle, so you have to ride it with respect. Doesn't mean people are scared of the HP..

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5/8/2013 11:04 PM

Barcia is definitely scared of the power.... grin when he hits the rev limiter under accel, it's only for a fraction of a second and doesn't slow down his "thrust" as much as you think it does.

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5/9/2013 5:44 AM

The OP is 100% correct.

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5/9/2013 5:52 AM

Randy_Nix wrote:

Barcia is definitely scared of the power.... grin when he hits the rev limiter under accel, it's only for a fraction of a second and doesn't slow down his "thrust" as much as you think it does.

Yeah I guess I wasn't really clear in my original post. I didn't mean to imply that Barcia is scared of the power. I meant that he is an exception. I was mostly speaking of slower local riders.
Guess I shouldn't post at the end of a long day when I am too tired to make sense.

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5/9/2013 7:38 AM

Randy_Nix wrote:

Barcia is definitely scared of the power.... grin when he hits the rev limiter under accel, it's only for a fraction of a second and doesn't slow down his "thrust" as much as you think it does.

just James wrote:

Yeah I guess I wasn't really clear in my original post. I didn't mean to imply that Barcia is scared of the power. I meant that he is an exception. I was mostly speaking of slower local riders.
Guess I shouldn't post at the end of a long day when I am too tired to make sense.

i agree wit you , but thats why i love riding my 450 , 3/4 throttle in 5 gear , is quicker than flat out in 3 rd or 4 gear , i love the way u can ride with low revs and be faster , suits me anyway smile

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5/9/2013 7:46 AM
Edited Date/Time: 5/9/2013 7:51 AM

I don't see anyone banging the engine off the rev limiter while on the ground and accelerating (at least no more than a micro second) so it kind of makes the point moot.

Does it help when a rider is in the air? Nope. Does it help ANY time? Hell no. So if these riders are not hitting the limiter while accelerating then it is not slowing them down. Right?

You also have to keep in mind, to make any decent power out of a modern, racing four stroke they have to rev, which is why they rev so much higher than 2 strokes. So if a rider just happens to bump the rev limiter while accelerating it's because he's trying to use all the power available.

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5/9/2013 9:24 AM

99% of motocross riders need about the 125sx/150sx/250f range of power, i dont care what anybody says "i need the power of the 450!/250 2 stroke!!" no you dont..that means you're not fast enough to do a certain obstacle on a smaller bike.

i think its funny when i go to some track and there are all these guys with 250f's/450's with exhaust/mods/all this other crap
dont get me wrong its their money they do whatever they want, but a pro/amateur could destroy anybody locally to anybody on a stock 85

anybody remember that article i think it was ryan hughes or some other pro kept going to a smaller and smaller bike, and i think it finally ended on a drz110 or something where the test rider could finally beat him simply bc the suspension was holding the pro back

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5/9/2013 9:50 AM

twosmoke30 wrote:

99% of motocross riders need about the 125sx/150sx/250f range of power, i dont care what anybody says "i need the power of the 450!/250 2 stroke!!" no you dont..that means you're not fast enough to do a certain obstacle on a smaller bike.

i think its funny when i go to some track and there are all these guys with 250f's/450's with exhaust/mods/all this other crap
dont get me wrong its their money they do whatever they want, but a pro/amateur could destroy anybody locally to anybody on a stock 85

anybody remember that article i think it was ryan hughes or some other pro kept going to a smaller and smaller bike, and i think it finally ended on a drz110 or something where the test rider could finally beat him simply bc the suspension was holding the pro back

i def agree but if you're over 200 lbs a small bike is gonna get in the way.

its easier to slow down a 250 2T/450F than it is to make a hot rod 125/250F and it'll last alot longer too.

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5/9/2013 9:57 AM

How many pro riders or racers in general use heavier than stock flywheel weights on 250 or bigger 2 stroke?

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5/9/2013 9:59 AM

Always respect thy horsepower........

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5/9/2013 10:03 AM

I used to ring my 250f's neck all the time in the desert (if you were talking moto, then my point may not apply), and I was always worried about it grenading on me, because of that. I'd have to ride it way up in the revs to make enough power to go as fast as I wanted it to go.

I bought a 450 last year, and not only do I go faster on it (and it shows in my results), but I am actually almost always in the lower RPM range when I'm riding it. I can stay way down in the revs, and still go as fast as I want. The only time it ever gets really high in the revs is under hard acceleration all the way to top speed (which does happen fairly often in hare and hound races).

So do I use all the power of my 450? Probably not...but I'm cool with that...because I can go as fast as I want to go without working the motor too hard. And that's a win/win as far as I'm concerned.

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5/9/2013 10:11 AM

I've never really understood the whole "using all the horsepower" thing. I dont think anybody use all of a bikes horsepower.....I just think everybody has their own talents to use the horsepower in different ways that benefit them the most. One rider might prefer to stay in a lower gear creating more horsepower while in that gear whereas another rider might prefer to upshit and be in lower RPM's. The guy in the higher gear could still be faster than the guy in the lower gear who is using "all the horsepower". Does it really make a difference as long as you're going faster?

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5/9/2013 10:36 AM

I don't use all of my CR500 conversions' hp--but I'm a lot faster on it around any of our local tracks than I am on my son's CR125 (although a novice rider doesn't have any business calling his riding "fast.") I used to have a CR250R and was about the same speed. I've lately ridden some 250f's and log slower lap times; also ridden some 450f's and log faster lap times than on my 500.
I like that I can clear anything on the track--can't help it that I can't clear 'em all on the pinger.

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5/9/2013 11:16 AM

On the big bikes it pays dividends to use the torque and keep the bike pulling, so I have to agree with the topic when we're talking about the 450F.

A lot of the time I race a 125, but this point also applies to a 250F, any small bore in general... On a small bore bike, sometimes you're using every last bit of the power to get over a jump. In that case, the bike is revving out to peak horsepower when you are coming off the face of a jump that comes right after a corner, etc. So there's no room to grab another gear. Whenyou're pre-loading the bike and revving it out to get over a a big double you need a little bit of rev in the air to keep the front end from dropping. It really comes from how you gear the bike and how aggressively you ride it. I think some of the 125 riders will agree, and guys like Justin Barcia do it on the 250F for the same reason.

It's not quite a panic-rev, but maybe a desperation rev or something... You are strangling that small-bore and desperately trying to maintain the correct bike attitude coming over the jumps.

I realize I didn't explain that very well, but hopefully it makes sense to some of you guys who have ridden a small bore at the Intermediate or Pro level.

This doesn't happen on the 450F because you can gear it faster, or use the next gear and still torque the bike over the jumps.

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5/10/2013 12:33 AM
Edited Date/Time: 5/10/2013 12:34 AM

It's like when you see a kid butt-scrubbing and kicking out his leg on every little lip so he thinking stays super low and revving the shit out of the bike, then a faster dude doesn't even pay attention to that shit, and just grabs a handful launches right past him.

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5/10/2013 12:47 AM

Pretty sure I saw K-Dub max out the power of his 450 on a supercross track one time. He jumped off a berm, gave it the juice for about a second and a half before launching 120 feet during the opening ceremony of the 2012 Arlington Supercross.

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The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good. ~ Samuel Johnson