Sandbaggers

Grizz
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Grizz
Edited Date/Time 3/19/2014 6:26am
Why does our sport cater to the sandbaggers? Has anyone ever noticed that winning Loretta's in A class isn't nearly as important as winning Loretta's in B class as far as sponsorship goes? Remember Shane McElrath. Wins some B motos at Loretta's in 2012 and gets a contract to race for TLD as an amateur and into the pros. Remember Jesse Wentland? Chances are, unless you follow MX closely at the amateur level, you don't. Well he won some A motos at Loretta's in 2012 and what did he get? Virtually nothing, at least in comparison to McElrath. This shit needs to stop.

Look at this kid
https://youtu.be/nE5E1e3hEfM?rel=0 )

This dude got 3rd at Loretta's in 2010 in C class. Yea, 2010, 4 years ago. That means he has been in B class since the end of 2010. That in itself isn't all that bad, sometimes shit happens, hell maybe he quit for a year, but why in the hell does he have support from Rock River? Why is The Cycle Trader Rock River team supporting someone that is clearly not progressing.

Cherry Picking at it's finest.

I can't be the only one that thinks this is messed up.
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bkent136
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bkent136 3/11/2014 8:19pm
3/11/2014 8:19pm
You ever see a C class race in FL or CA... That's REAL sandbagging!!
Grizz
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Grizz 3/11/2014 8:24pm
3/11/2014 8:24pm Edited Date/Time 3/11/2014 8:24pm
^
Axell Hodges comes to mind...
Tim507
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Tim507 3/11/2014 8:35pm
3/11/2014 8:35pm Edited Date/Time 3/11/2014 8:35pm
Motocross is a business now days - to be successful in business you need a strategy.....so quit grousing and get a strategy. Is it right - is it wrong....who knows. This is not the only dude to play this strategy!!!
And if they fail then we have nothing more than “Wasted Days and Wasted Nights”
Grizz
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Grizz 3/11/2014 8:42pm
3/11/2014 8:42pm
Yep, you're exactly right. It's just a shame that it is becoming more and more that way as the sport grows. I just wanted vent a little. Guess I better get "injured" for a few years and come back to win 450 B at Loretta's when I'm 25 Woohoo

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yzmatt
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yzmatt 3/11/2014 8:43pm
3/11/2014 8:43pm
Grizz wrote:
Why does our sport cater to the sandbaggers? Has anyone ever noticed that winning Loretta's in A class isn't nearly as important as winning Loretta's in...
Why does our sport cater to the sandbaggers? Has anyone ever noticed that winning Loretta's in A class isn't nearly as important as winning Loretta's in B class as far as sponsorship goes? Remember Shane McElrath. Wins some B motos at Loretta's in 2012 and gets a contract to race for TLD as an amateur and into the pros. Remember Jesse Wentland? Chances are, unless you follow MX closely at the amateur level, you don't. Well he won some A motos at Loretta's in 2012 and what did he get? Virtually nothing, at least in comparison to McElrath. This shit needs to stop.

Look at this kid
https://youtu.be/nE5E1e3hEfM?rel=0 )

This dude got 3rd at Loretta's in 2010 in C class. Yea, 2010, 4 years ago. That means he has been in B class since the end of 2010. That in itself isn't all that bad, sometimes shit happens, hell maybe he quit for a year, but why in the hell does he have support from Rock River? Why is The Cycle Trader Rock River team supporting someone that is clearly not progressing.

Cherry Picking at it's finest.

I can't be the only one that thinks this is messed up.
This thread will be a trainwreck in no time so I'll just say I agree with you and point out that sandbaggers also deter people from getting involved in racing (aka 'growing the sport') and leave it at that.
Grizz
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Grizz 3/11/2014 8:54pm
3/11/2014 8:54pm
If the train starts de-railing, I'll toss the thread.
Crush
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Crush 3/11/2014 8:56pm
3/11/2014 8:56pm
Grizz?

Just a name coincidence? haha
Grizz
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Grizz 3/11/2014 9:00pm
3/11/2014 9:00pm
Crush wrote:
Grizz?

Just a name coincidence? haha
Oh yea, I forgot to mention that. He stole my nickname!
rmzrider91
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rmzrider91 3/11/2014 9:01pm
3/11/2014 9:01pm
I didn't ride or race for about 5 years, then after high school I bought a new 450 and got back into it again. Started racing local C class and pretty quick I was winning and there was only 1 other guy that would show up that was close in speed. Honestly I hated it but every time I went to a big race anywhere I was only a contender to make the top 5 if that. I raced a Loretta Lynn's qualifier at a local track that I raced at a lot and all I finished overall was 12th.
COAL-TRAIN
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COAL-TRAIN 3/11/2014 9:13pm
3/11/2014 9:13pm
Grizz wrote:
Why does our sport cater to the sandbaggers? Has anyone ever noticed that winning Loretta's in A class isn't nearly as important as winning Loretta's in...
Why does our sport cater to the sandbaggers? Has anyone ever noticed that winning Loretta's in A class isn't nearly as important as winning Loretta's in B class as far as sponsorship goes? Remember Shane McElrath. Wins some B motos at Loretta's in 2012 and gets a contract to race for TLD as an amateur and into the pros. Remember Jesse Wentland? Chances are, unless you follow MX closely at the amateur level, you don't. Well he won some A motos at Loretta's in 2012 and what did he get? Virtually nothing, at least in comparison to McElrath. This shit needs to stop.

Look at this kid
https://youtu.be/nE5E1e3hEfM?rel=0 )

This dude got 3rd at Loretta's in 2010 in C class. Yea, 2010, 4 years ago. That means he has been in B class since the end of 2010. That in itself isn't all that bad, sometimes shit happens, hell maybe he quit for a year, but why in the hell does he have support from Rock River? Why is The Cycle Trader Rock River team supporting someone that is clearly not progressing.

Cherry Picking at it's finest.

I can't be the only one that thinks this is messed up.
So does he have any big wins in the B class? Just because hes been there for 3 years, or 4 dosnt put him in the Axel Hodges category. I wouldn't call someone a sandbagger till they have won...over and over, even for years...and still wont move up. Like say Jeffery Herlings lol.
Grizz
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Grizz 3/11/2014 9:17pm
3/11/2014 9:17pm
He won one of the B classes at the Daytona Amateur race this past weekend. That's what brought it to my attention.
wardy
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wardy 3/11/2014 9:18pm
3/11/2014 9:18pm
the real challenge is explaining the need for a C class championship at the national level,


well except for the income it provides.


if the oem's would place the cherry on top of the pile, reward the A classes like they should, B class gets scraps and NO C class that stuff wouldn't happen.

But as said in this thread earlier. Business. and it's good business for the chosen few to crown as many champions as possible. it's why we have 4 lap motos. and three day "big" events during school time and home schooling and well the other reasons why this sport has so many issues.

oh crap almost forgot. IN MY opinion.
Grizz
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Grizz 3/11/2014 9:19pm
3/11/2014 9:19pm
rmzrider91 wrote:
I didn't ride or race for about 5 years, then after high school I bought a new 450 and got back into it again. Started racing...
I didn't ride or race for about 5 years, then after high school I bought a new 450 and got back into it again. Started racing local C class and pretty quick I was winning and there was only 1 other guy that would show up that was close in speed. Honestly I hated it but every time I went to a big race anywhere I was only a contender to make the top 5 if that. I raced a Loretta Lynn's qualifier at a local track that I raced at a lot and all I finished overall was 12th.
Yea, the gap from local to amateur nationals, and then am nats to pro is insane.
Grizz
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Grizz 3/11/2014 9:20pm
3/11/2014 9:20pm
wardy wrote:
the real challenge is explaining the need for a C class championship at the national level, well except for the income it provides. if the oem's...
the real challenge is explaining the need for a C class championship at the national level,


well except for the income it provides.


if the oem's would place the cherry on top of the pile, reward the A classes like they should, B class gets scraps and NO C class that stuff wouldn't happen.

But as said in this thread earlier. Business. and it's good business for the chosen few to crown as many champions as possible. it's why we have 4 lap motos. and three day "big" events during school time and home schooling and well the other reasons why this sport has so many issues.

oh crap almost forgot. IN MY opinion.
Good post. I like YOUR opinion. Some stuff to think about.
theinternetkid 3/11/2014 9:23pm
3/11/2014 9:23pm
It seems like guys only want to go pro from the B class. Maybe there's a stigma about riding in the A class and not being a pro. Like if you make it to A and you're not backed with a full program, you're not going anywhere.
Grizz
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Grizz 3/11/2014 9:23pm
3/11/2014 9:23pm
Has anyone here ever raced with anything under Victory Sports? They are big in the south east. I was blown away by the fact that they have a 250 AND 450 D class. Not only that, but they both have 20-30 rider gates (mostly the same riders of course).
Grizz
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Grizz 3/11/2014 9:25pm
3/11/2014 9:25pm
theinternetkid wrote:
It seems like guys only want to go pro from the B class. Maybe there's a stigma about riding in the A class and not being...
It seems like guys only want to go pro from the B class. Maybe there's a stigma about riding in the A class and not being a pro. Like if you make it to A and you're not backed with a full program, you're not going anywhere.
Possibly. But that's nearly the opposite of what I think. In my opinion you go from B, to A, and then to Pro. Pros race with A but A guys can't race pro races until they earn it. I don't know... makes sense to me.
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AS64 3/11/2014 9:26pm
3/11/2014 9:26pm Edited Date/Time 3/11/2014 9:29pm
wardy wrote:
the real challenge is explaining the need for a C class championship at the national level, well except for the income it provides. if the oem's...
the real challenge is explaining the need for a C class championship at the national level,


well except for the income it provides.


if the oem's would place the cherry on top of the pile, reward the A classes like they should, B class gets scraps and NO C class that stuff wouldn't happen.

But as said in this thread earlier. Business. and it's good business for the chosen few to crown as many champions as possible. it's why we have 4 lap motos. and three day "big" events during school time and home schooling and well the other reasons why this sport has so many issues.

oh crap almost forgot. IN MY opinion.
I always thought and still think it's a bit odd that there is a C class at Loretta's. In my opinion they should dump it. Your post gives good reason's why. Well said.

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theinternetkid 3/11/2014 9:37pm
3/11/2014 9:37pm
Grizz wrote:
Possibly. But that's nearly the opposite of what I think. In my opinion you go from B, to A, and then to Pro. Pros race with...
Possibly. But that's nearly the opposite of what I think. In my opinion you go from B, to A, and then to Pro. Pros race with A but A guys can't race pro races until they earn it. I don't know... makes sense to me.
I agree that that's the way it should be, racing A class before going pro. In my observation, the next top guy goes from supermini, to B class, to pro. So maybe dudes feel like if they get A class and haven't made it, they won't ever get there.
DL
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DL 3/11/2014 9:45pm
3/11/2014 9:45pm
Winning B class title does not get you a ride. It's still politics. Just saying
1488
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1488 3/11/2014 9:56pm
3/11/2014 9:56pm
there are two-four titles that count at lorettas

14-15 85 / super mini or whatever its called

and 250B mod & stock

the dudes who win titles in the A class who have supprt rides put in good rides in the B class..

most recent proof ofthis is Luke Renzland..dude won 450A and is still racing amateurs....

the competition is in the B class..not the A class.
lostboy819
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lostboy819 3/11/2014 9:59pm
3/11/2014 9:59pm Edited Date/Time 3/11/2014 10:01pm
Grizz wrote:
Yep, you're exactly right. It's just a shame that it is becoming more and more that way as the sport grows. I just wanted vent a...
Yep, you're exactly right. It's just a shame that it is becoming more and more that way as the sport grows. I just wanted vent a little. Guess I better get "injured" for a few years and come back to win 450 B at Loretta's when I'm 25 Woohoo
Its the same as it ever was, its no different than it was in the 70s 80s or 90s and at every track you will have the slow guys who claim all the fast guys are sandbagging. Soon we will see all the guys who will start looking through the results for LL qualifiers and try to get people DQed long before the race. Who cares if a rider sits out a few years and then drops a class, it should give you the motivation to beat his ass on the track and not do it by protest. I also laugh at the guys who say " its my dream to race LLs" but I cant because of the sandbaggers taking all the spots. I will tell you what for all the guys whos dream is to race LLs I will save you some time and trouble, give me half the money you would spend to try to go to LLs and I will kick you in the nuts and push you down the stairs and then you will have the same LLs results and only spend half the money.
cd0583
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cd0583 3/11/2014 10:05pm
3/11/2014 10:05pm
What separates a top B rider from a top A rider? Nothing.
lostboy819
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lostboy819 3/11/2014 10:06pm
3/11/2014 10:06pm
yzmatt wrote:
This thread will be a trainwreck in no time so I'll just say I agree with you and point out that sandbaggers also deter people from...
This thread will be a trainwreck in no time so I'll just say I agree with you and point out that sandbaggers also deter people from getting involved in racing (aka 'growing the sport') and leave it at that.
I disagree, you have got to lose before you can win and you got to pay your dues, winning should be hard and the best way to get faster is by racing faster riders.
Grizz
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Grizz 3/11/2014 11:03pm
3/11/2014 11:03pm
Grizz wrote:
Yep, you're exactly right. It's just a shame that it is becoming more and more that way as the sport grows. I just wanted vent a...
Yep, you're exactly right. It's just a shame that it is becoming more and more that way as the sport grows. I just wanted vent a little. Guess I better get "injured" for a few years and come back to win 450 B at Loretta's when I'm 25 Woohoo
lostboy819 wrote:
Its the same as it ever was, its no different than it was in the 70s 80s or 90s and at every track you will have...
Its the same as it ever was, its no different than it was in the 70s 80s or 90s and at every track you will have the slow guys who claim all the fast guys are sandbagging. Soon we will see all the guys who will start looking through the results for LL qualifiers and try to get people DQed long before the race. Who cares if a rider sits out a few years and then drops a class, it should give you the motivation to beat his ass on the track and not do it by protest. I also laugh at the guys who say " its my dream to race LLs" but I cant because of the sandbaggers taking all the spots. I will tell you what for all the guys whos dream is to race LLs I will save you some time and trouble, give me half the money you would spend to try to go to LLs and I will kick you in the nuts and push you down the stairs and then you will have the same LLs results and only spend half the money.
I'm not a slow guy complaining that the fast guys are faster.
Grizz
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Grizz 3/11/2014 11:04pm
3/11/2014 11:04pm
lostboy819 wrote:
I disagree, you have got to lose before you can win and you got to pay your dues, winning should be hard and the best way...
I disagree, you have got to lose before you can win and you got to pay your dues, winning should be hard and the best way to get faster is by racing faster riders.
What do you mean you disagree? That is exactly what I'm saying. People need to move up to get faster.
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lostboy819 3/11/2014 11:43pm
3/11/2014 11:43pm
Grizz wrote:
Yep, you're exactly right. It's just a shame that it is becoming more and more that way as the sport grows. I just wanted vent a...
Yep, you're exactly right. It's just a shame that it is becoming more and more that way as the sport grows. I just wanted vent a little. Guess I better get "injured" for a few years and come back to win 450 B at Loretta's when I'm 25 Woohoo
lostboy819 wrote:
Its the same as it ever was, its no different than it was in the 70s 80s or 90s and at every track you will have...
Its the same as it ever was, its no different than it was in the 70s 80s or 90s and at every track you will have the slow guys who claim all the fast guys are sandbagging. Soon we will see all the guys who will start looking through the results for LL qualifiers and try to get people DQed long before the race. Who cares if a rider sits out a few years and then drops a class, it should give you the motivation to beat his ass on the track and not do it by protest. I also laugh at the guys who say " its my dream to race LLs" but I cant because of the sandbaggers taking all the spots. I will tell you what for all the guys whos dream is to race LLs I will save you some time and trouble, give me half the money you would spend to try to go to LLs and I will kick you in the nuts and push you down the stairs and then you will have the same LLs results and only spend half the money.
Grizz wrote:
I'm not a slow guy complaining that the fast guys are faster.
Im not pointing a finger at you, it is just one of the subjects I am on the minority side with my opinions. When I grew up racing in Oklahoma & Texas it was a different time and it didn't matter who was in your class you just raced them and if you got beat then you got beat. We had guys who raced in the B class and never moved up but that is how you gauged yourself was when you could beat them then you were fast enough to move to A class. Every year here on Vital you will get a Hey DC thread and someone complaining about someone sandbagging to go to LLs. I always say do your racing on the track and it makes no diffrence who is on the gate with you it could be Cramichael or a guy who never finished in the top 20 any place.
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lostboy819 3/11/2014 11:50pm
3/11/2014 11:50pm
lostboy819 wrote:
I disagree, you have got to lose before you can win and you got to pay your dues, winning should be hard and the best way...
I disagree, you have got to lose before you can win and you got to pay your dues, winning should be hard and the best way to get faster is by racing faster riders.
Grizz wrote:
What do you mean you disagree? That is exactly what I'm saying. People need to move up to get faster.
But there will always be someone faster even if they are in your class and some people wont move up and that is fine . If people are deterred and wont get involved with racing because of what they perceive as sandbagging that is their own problem and racing is probably not for them anyway. Like I said I am in the minority on this subject and I believe racing should be done on the track and not with the officials.
Kennyfinpowers 3/11/2014 11:56pm
3/11/2014 11:56pm
Grizz wrote:
Has anyone here ever raced with anything under Victory Sports? They are big in the south east. I was blown away by the fact that they...
Has anyone here ever raced with anything under Victory Sports? They are big in the south east. I was blown away by the fact that they have a 250 AND 450 D class. Not only that, but they both have 20-30 rider gates (mostly the same riders of course).
I used to ride victory sports events. They even had an "indoor" winter series. 250D riders hitting the catapult everylap....OK.
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Parris 3/12/2014 2:14am
3/12/2014 2:14am
What I do not under stand about some tracks is that they will have 25+ different classes. You folk will spend big money. Travel long distance. Spend maybe two days to race a total of 10 laps???????????? Please someone tell me I am High!

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