SXS/ATV and Dirt Bikes MX same day same track, different times?

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7/30/2018 4:13 PM
Edited Date/Time: 7/31/2018 2:07 PM

I realize to many of you this is the ultimate sin, and represents total Anarchy, kind of like Dogs and Cats sleeping together. Humor me for a minute.

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The sport is shrinking. Tracks close and struggle to pay the bills. Ruts are the current kool fad. Multi line powersports dealers sell and profit more from 4 wheelers than 2 wheelers, MX bikes in particular. Different niches of machines and their riders, sold out of the same showroom, are like oil and water.

IMO MX guys think they are too cool to be seen at the same place as 4 wheelers and trail riders.

It seems to come down to a matter of track conditions. I personally (60 yr. old) find that late in the practice day, after all the bikes have left, when a local track owner lets the ATV's have a rip, when I go out at the same time the (hard to tame) track is the best it has been all day (smoothed out) If time were not the obstacle (another subject) would you patronize a track that let 4 wheelers run last practice, last 1st moto, and last 2nd moto? (Last so as to minimize the smoothing of the corners).

Never 4 wheelers and 2 wheelers on the track together, just using the track the same day at different times. Sorry for any confusion on that issue.


Ride at a track that welcomed 4 wheelers?

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7/30/2018 6:38 PM

Is Moto industry really as bad in the rest of the country as people make it seem? In New England I’d say we have 7 tracks within 2 hrs of each other. Any given weekend that’s not rained out those tracks are pretty busy. I’d say on a normal weekend each track will have 50-100 riders and often even more. Just about every track splits practices and the race turnouts are good. I don’t think the track owners are making a ton of money but at $30 a rider they are able to prep and water both days and the riders are happy.

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7/30/2018 7:11 PM

Hell fuggin no. They banned quads at a lot of my local tracks, and those tracks started making MORE money.

Dirtbikes are still the main thing for people who go ride on structured/organized tracks... At least in my opinion they are.

Besides, the ATV/SXS riders are almost ALWAYS the ones causing stupid shit to happen at tracks. I really dont want to be too specific in the multiple accidents that quads have caused at my local track because they are ultra-stupid and instantly recognisable to anyone from the area. But its pretty safe to say that they are usually the ones giving track owners headaches.

Fuck quads

Fuck em all

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7/31/2018 9:32 AM
Edited Date/Time: 7/31/2018 9:32 AM

I think it would work better on a track with roller jumps like the Elsinore Vet track. SXS drag the brakes over every single obstacle. I've seen SXS on that track at the same time as the bikes. Sketchy is an understatement. Deep down I was hoping someone was going to kick in the SXS door.

3pm or later on a track like that? Go send it in your rubber band car bro

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"A link is only as long as your longest strong chain"

7/31/2018 9:57 AM

F*** QUADS

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7/31/2018 10:37 AM

As an ATV guy, I can see where you guys are coming from with the ruts, and yes, there are a lot of absolute squids that give us a bad rep, I'll acknowledge that.

Having said that, when I go to my local track, I usually get a few funny looks while I'm unloading, once I'm on the track there are 2 types of bike guys,

1. The type that will show a little respect and move over or at least hold their line. THese guys i always wait until I can make a quick, clean, safe pass on and continue on my way, no issues there.

2. The type that can't stand to be passed by an ATV and will pull some stupid s*** to stay ahead, usually crash doing so, and get up blaming quads for their own squiddyness.

I can get around a track faster and smoother than most 2 wheeled guys, especially at my local track. I respect the bike guys, and most of them respect me, with a little good natured ribbing.


What I don't understand are the people like the poster above, who are so triggered by the mere mention of a 4 wheeled machine that they have to smash the caps lock button.

The best way I've seen it work is when we are split up, same day is fine but in a separate practice. The fact is the fast line on a dirtbike is not the fast line on an ATV, when we are on the track together there is too much risk of those lines coming together. Ideally youd have a beginner and an expert group for the ATVs, believe it or not, the faster guys dont like riding with the metal mulisha/rockstar clad squids either.

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Washed up Canadian ex-pro couch racer. Selling bikes for a living

2003 KTM 125SX
2009 KTM 450SX
2016 YFZ450R


7/31/2018 1:00 PM

Stuntman949 wrote:

I think it would work better on a track with roller jumps like the Elsinore Vet track. SXS drag the brakes over every single ...more

Yeah side by sides definitely shouldn't be out there at the same time. way too big.

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Washed up Canadian ex-pro couch racer. Selling bikes for a living

2003 KTM 125SX
2009 KTM 450SX
2016 YFZ450R


7/31/2018 2:00 PM

bh84 wrote:

As an ATV guy, I can see where you guys are coming from with the ruts, and yes, there are a lot of absolute squids that give ...more

Sorry for the disrespect. If you lived in Southern California and had to intermingle with quad riders in the desert, in Baja or at any local track, you would understand the ALL CAPS profanity. I have a lot of respect for the Worcs quad pros - they haul the mail and actually have skill. Nearly everyone else is a knucklehead.

And I agree with the 2 wheeled Mulisha/Rockstar flatbill wearing clan as well. Might as well round them all up and ship them off to a deserted island somewhere.

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7/31/2018 3:56 PM

Jeremy Macbeth wrote:

Sorry for the disrespect. If you lived in Southern California and had to intermingle with quad riders in the desert, in Baja ...more

I’ve raced with a few of the top AMA ATV Pros. They are absolutely insane. Balls to the wall fast. I can beat the fast guys around here, those dudes can go to to toe with guys like Roczen and Musquin. Probably not Tomac at his current pace though!


Anyway, all I’m saying is that there are ATVMX guys who are talented, smooth riders who most dirt bike guys should feel just fine, if not honoured to share a track with. And that there are many guys out there on bikes who are just as scary to ride with.

The other side of this is that, as ATV riders, we do pump a lot of money into the sport, gear, oil, parts, ATVs go through more of that than bikes. A healthy ATV community is a good thing for MX.

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Washed up Canadian ex-pro couch racer. Selling bikes for a living

2003 KTM 125SX
2009 KTM 450SX
2016 YFZ450R


7/31/2018 4:44 PM

Most tracks around me are ripped fairly deep. With me not being good at all its nice when quads keep ruts under control. only thing i dont like is trying to pass them.

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7/31/2018 4:47 PM

I like riding a track with fresh quad lines. It's another kind of challenge.

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Braaapin' aint easy.

7/31/2018 5:11 PM

bh84 wrote:

As an ATV guy, I can see where you guys are coming from with the ruts, and yes, there are a lot of absolute squids that give ...more

Jeremy Macbeth wrote:

Sorry for the disrespect. If you lived in Southern California and had to intermingle with quad riders in the desert, in Baja ...more

bh84 wrote:

I’ve raced with a few of the top AMA ATV Pros. They are absolutely insane. Balls to the wall fast. I can beat the fast guys ...more

Too bad the atv mx scene is dying with all the main brands pulling out except for Yamaha, its RIDICULOUS that someone around me wants 10 grand for a low hour stocker 14 450er. Otherwise, I'd move up from my Z400.

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2009 RMZ 250 (sold)
2004 LTZ 400
#nukethequads

7/31/2018 5:20 PM

My local track has quads, but they seperate them out in their own practice. It kind of sucks, because we get hundreds of bikes on the track and only maybe 5 quads, but they still get catered to. So the bikes go out for 20 minutes in a jam packed practice, then the 3 quad guys go ride by themselves for 20 minutes.

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7/31/2018 5:24 PM

When I was racing HS all the time....the 4 wheelers raced the same day. At the riders meeting they asked who was going first. Since this is Kansas and usually dry as a popcorn fart...we voted for the bikes to go first so we we wouldn't have to stand around in the giant dust storm they create. On the rare muddy days...we sent the sofas out to splash the mud holes dry and make a better track. We could get away with this evilness cause we outnumbered themdevil .

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If it ain't yer's don't take it, If it ain't the truth dont say it, If it ain't right don't do it...Marcus Aurelius

8/1/2018 7:46 AM

Samuel wrote:

My local track has quads, but they seperate them out in their own practice. It kind of sucks, because we get hundreds of bikes ...more

Thats a case of your local track needing to change the way they do things. split the bikes into separate classes, there is no need for 3 guys, no matter what they are riding, to take up half the day.

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Washed up Canadian ex-pro couch racer. Selling bikes for a living

2003 KTM 125SX
2009 KTM 450SX
2016 YFZ450R


8/1/2018 8:11 AM

As much as I hate to exclude fellow off-roaders froma track, I vote no on quads for two main reasons:

1) Noise. It is absurd how loud they are. At Unadilla NYS championship last year after my practice I went and watched a few motos. Quads came out and children were crying, blood started coming out of my nose, and the sun went black for the duration of the moto. In all seriousness I had to cover my ears and ended up going back to the pits because it was loud. I've been around racing my whole life and have never had ear pain except for unmuffled car classes.

2) They wreck the track. Maybe it isn't a problem in California where the track is already concrete, but on the east coast where we actually have dirt and the track and we get ruts, they blow all the soft dirt off the track. After one quad moto the track is bluegroove and all the ruts are flattened over with the dirt pushed out over the edge of the track.

I don't quite agree with the idea that quad riders are all goons or asses... Moto attracts plenty of those on bikes too. And yeah there are some super fast quad guys. Impressive to watch them rip around. But I've only ever seen a handful of quads at the track, even when they have their own race or practice class. The reality of it is that 10-20 quads ruin the track for a couple hundred guys on bikes. give them their own day (Hurricane Hill does this), or give them a different track on the same property. And for the love of God enforce sound limits on these things.

End rant

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8/1/2018 9:25 AM

Breeze wood allows quads trikes and bikes and its not that bad. I generally pull up when a quad comes along and let him go, they throw so much roost znd so much dust i dont like to be near them. And also our lines are different so its best to steer clear but it isnt all that difficult to be safe if everyone is half way reasonable.

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8/1/2018 9:31 AM

It really comes down to destroying ruts and creating absurd amounts of dust for me. ATV guys deserve a place to ride and I've shared the tracks with some guys that absolutely flew. Unfortunately, most were horrifying to pass and kinda made the tracks shit. It's just how it is.

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Are you smart enough to buy a bike that costs less, weighs less, makes more horsepower per cubic centimeter, can be rebuilt for recycled aluminum can money and is giggle inducing? It is hard to believe that the American riding public flunks this test en masse. How stupid are you?

8/1/2018 10:31 AM

bh84 wrote:

I’ve raced with a few of the top AMA ATV Pros. They are absolutely insane. Balls to the wall fast. I can beat the fast guys ...more

You lost me at going toe to toe with Roczen and Musquin.

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8/1/2018 10:40 AM

aroark247 wrote:

You lost me at going toe to toe with Roczen and Musquin.

Check some lap times dude. Wienen adn Hetrick Vs Roczen and Musquin. At Red Bud they are nearly identical lap times.

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Washed up Canadian ex-pro couch racer. Selling bikes for a living

2003 KTM 125SX
2009 KTM 450SX
2016 YFZ450R


8/1/2018 10:44 AM

Jbulz wrote:

As much as I hate to exclude fellow off-roaders froma track, I vote no on quads for two main reasons:

1) Noise. It is absurd ...more

The whole "they wreck the track" argument is always so amusing to me. Its Motocross. The whole point is to ride the track as it is.

Having said that, when I go out i pick my line through each corner and keep using it. That way I leave some ruts for you guys. Doesn't work out that way when theres 20 of us but If I'm the only guy there you'd hardly know there was a quad on the track

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Washed up Canadian ex-pro couch racer. Selling bikes for a living

2003 KTM 125SX
2009 KTM 450SX
2016 YFZ450R


8/1/2018 10:47 AM

bh84 wrote:

Check some lap times dude. Wienen adn Hetrick Vs Roczen and Musquin. At Red Bud they are nearly identical lap times.

Have you seen the condition of a bike vs ATV national track? They are highways for the ATV national and rough as shit for the real race.

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8/1/2018 11:15 AM

aroark247 wrote:

You lost me at going toe to toe with Roczen and Musquin.

bh84 wrote:

Check some lap times dude. Wienen adn Hetrick Vs Roczen and Musquin. At Red Bud they are nearly identical lap times.

early wrote:

Have you seen the condition of a bike vs ATV national track? They are highways for the ATV national and rough as shit for the ...more

Nope. I watched the pro quads hit the track after a national at steel city one year with no track prep beforehand. It was rough as hell and they were running very close lap times to the 450 guys at the time who included Stewart and Carmichael.

As much as it pains me to say this, pro quad guys are fast too. And not just at plugging butts.

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8/1/2018 11:57 AM

early wrote:

Have you seen the condition of a bike vs ATV national track? They are highways for the ATV national and rough as shit for the ...more

I'm talking about qualifying times here. track fairly smooth for both.

I love this argument too. "Quads wreck the track! There's no ruts!" then, right after that "The only reason quads can run similar laps is because they don't make big deep ruts!"

Who's wrecking the track?

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Washed up Canadian ex-pro couch racer. Selling bikes for a living

2003 KTM 125SX
2009 KTM 450SX
2016 YFZ450R


8/1/2018 12:02 PM

I'm ok sharing the space with anything that has 2 or even 3 wheels, but 4?!!? that's 1 too many wheels bro!

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