SX Streaming Issues - Fool Me Twice Shame on Me

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2/14/2018 10:02 AM

Longtime lurker, first time poster.

Along with many others, I bought the Feld/Cleeng SX streaming package for this year. In previous years, I would try to find an internet stream or watch the races the next day one a couple of different websites. Being in Canada, this was my only option. To support SX, guarantee live watching and for convenience, I was happy to subscribe this year (at $10 CAD per weekend). I subscribed to NBC Gold for MX and thought it was great and had no problems (plus a better deal).

After the terrible Houston stream, I complained and asked for a weekend (not full) refund. Cleeng first denied the problem, then said refunds weren't possible, then gave me a full refund, despite my protests that I wanted to maintain my subscription but just wanted a refund for the weekend.

So I subscribed again (shame on me). For Oakland, the stream was off air for the first 30 minutes and I had to watch the 250 heat races via an internet stream. For San Diego, the stream constantly buffered and was choppy (similar to Houston). I eventually gave up and just watched most of the races on an internet stream. So after 3 of 6 problematic streams, I complained again.

Again, first they denied the problem. Now they are saying a refund is not possible. Amazingly, they said that because I subscribed a second time, it is on me (buyer beware) and no refund will be given. They are not wrong, but it does seem like a strange customer service policy - hey, we don't deny we suck, but you knew we sucked didn't you, so too bad (no soup for you!).

Ah well, never again. Back to internet streams I guess! But not for MX - will definitely subscribe to NBC Gold again!

Anyone else have strange Feld/Cleeng streaming/customer services issues/stories?

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2/14/2018 12:31 PM

i was really close to subscribe, glad i didnt, i´ve heard a lot of complaints about it.

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2/14/2018 1:10 PM
Edited Date/Time: 2/14/2018 1:11 PM

ask for a refund again then put that towards the mxgp season. far superior

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2/14/2018 1:21 PM
Edited Date/Time: 2/14/2018 1:21 PM

Really glad I didn't subscribe to this, the amount of issues reported is absolutely ridiculous and unacceptable for the price they are charging. I bought the outdoor package for nearly a third of the price and can only remember one or two issues throughout the entire season. Genuinely feel bad for anyone who paid for this, they advertised a premium service and it seems like it's been quite the opposite.

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2/14/2018 1:42 PM

I think that what they are trying to say, is that you are too stupid to deserve a refund. laughing laughing laughing tongue tongue tongue
Just busting your ball man. Ha Ha.

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2/14/2018 1:54 PM
Edited Date/Time: 2/14/2018 2:53 PM

downard254 wrote:

I think that what they are trying to say, is that you are too stupid to deserve a refund. laughing laughing laughing tongue tongue tongue
Just busting your ball man. ...more

Haha, no doubt that is what they are saying. To paraphrase: "Hey look buddy, we gave you your money back once and you knew our product sucked, so now that you have doubled down and re-subscribed and our product still sucks, we can't help you, because, well, you're an idiot." Haha.

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2/14/2018 2:08 PM

It is super frustrating. I have had the same experience. Complained after Houston, told them not to refund. They refunded and then I had to re-purchase the day of Glendale. Had the same issues with Oakland and San Diego.

I am not 100% sure who provides the technical support for this. I think Cleeng might only be the front-end management for subscriptions and authorizations. Something changed after Houston I think, the stream now has a Livestream logo on it and is HTML-5 and not Flash. So they are definitely trying to sort this out, but yeah it has been a crapshow.

I've said it before here, but for us in Canada the solution is probably to run a VPN and use YouTube TV. The main issue is sorting out the subscription payment. I understand one needs a Visa card registered to the zip code used to subscribe. There may be a way to utilize PayPal to deliver payment. I fully plan to have this set up for next season, one way or another. YouTube TV has DVR capability as well.

For the rest of this season I'll continue to smash my head in trying to watch the subscription feed.

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Old MXer turned Superfan.

2/14/2018 2:57 PM

hamncheeze wrote:

It is super frustrating. I have had the same experience. Complained after Houston, told them not to refund. They refunded and ...more

I am with you. Deal with it this year, but never again. Look for something different next year. Crazy that they launched this at that price and then deliver such a horrible product.

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2/14/2018 3:07 PM

hamncheeze wrote:

It is super frustrating. I have had the same experience. Complained after Houston, told them not to refund. They refunded and ...more

If you buy one of those prepaid Visa cards you can change all the information related to the card (address, name, etc) to whatever you want, IIRC. Might be something to look into?

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2/14/2018 3:33 PM
Edited Date/Time: 2/14/2018 3:36 PM

slowvetguy wrote:

Longtime lurker, first time poster.

Along with many others, I bought the Feld/Cleeng SX streaming package for this year. In ...more

I have a policy too. It's called "getting my mothafuckin money back!"

I can't stand those "company policies". They act like God came down and asserted the policy himself, or that it's somehow legally binding, or that I should somehow give a shit what their internal, made up, arbitrary policy is. It's nonsense. Fair trade, that's the only policy.

buyer beware does not legally supersede "in good faith" or "sellers implied warranty", and as far as I know, is only relevant for physical goods, in which a person can fully, physically inspect the item in question, not digital media. And it certainly doesn't cover "services" , which is what this is. Not only that, but you have to express, through a disclaimer, either Buyer Beware or "as is", it cannot be retrograded.

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2/14/2018 5:12 PM

Pretty quite from the 'industry' folk here, but thats hardly a new thing. Like many issues, it seems they close ranks and shutdown info..

Waiting for the "wheres the conspiracy" reply.....?

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2/14/2018 5:53 PM

Yeah, you’d think after NBC Gold was so successful they’d be on this (especially charging nearly 3 times as much).

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2/14/2018 6:34 PM
Edited Date/Time: 2/14/2018 6:39 PM

Yeah Jorge I think the ticket for YouTube TV is probably a pre-paid Visa card in US funds. And slowvetguy, I think this is the 2nd year for the international live stream, just the first year it has been available for Canada. One would think the bugs would be ironed out somewhat?

It is crazy how NBC and MX Sports can pull together a rock solid flawless stream from the middle of nowhere in New York or Washington state, but Livestream/Cleeng/Feld can't get their act together from major urban centers where all the stadiums are located. One would think being closer to infrastructure would make it all somewhat easier?

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Old MXer turned Superfan.

2/14/2018 7:27 PM

I'm struggling with this stream too. What is the problem? Cleeng server overload? I would think they get their feed from FS1 headend therefore the pipe should be the same every week. That leaves Cleeng servers as week point. These should be dimension-ed off of subscription numbers and therefore there is NO excuse.

How much of this is on Feld and SupercrossLive? They need to step-up and select a competent provider.

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2/14/2018 8:28 PM

hamncheeze wrote:

Yeah Jorge I think the ticket for YouTube TV is probably a pre-paid Visa card in US funds. And slowvetguy, I think this is the ...more

Completely agree. Second year and service is considerably worse than first year of MX stream. The fact that Cleeng habitually lies (no streaming problems until they finally admit streaming problems; no refunds allowed until refunds issued; standard CYA stuff) probably tells us all we need to know about their commitment to quality service. Can’t imagine they ever get this figured out. Will never subscribe again.

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2/14/2018 8:33 PM

chillrich wrote:

I'm struggling with this stream too. What is the problem? Cleeng server overload? I would think they get their feed from FS1 ...more

What you say makes sense. Perhaps NBC MX Sports saw their streaming service as the future and want to build loyalty and attract cord-cutters everywhere whereas Feld and Cleeng shortsightedly see this as a quick cash cow. The dramatic price difference may be but one indicator. Obviously poor quality and customer service are some others.

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2/14/2018 10:40 PM
Edited Date/Time: 2/14/2018 11:20 PM

Well regardless of who is ultimately responsible, hopefully whoever runs social media for Supercrosslive got in touch with whoever runs this at Feld who got in touch with whoever runs this at Cleeng, because there were a lot of angry people on Twitter last Saturday night. Most people were tweeting just at Supercrosslive but I threw in a few extras:

@Supercrosslive
@Livestream
@FedEnt
@BondoTV (this poor guy is the producer of the TV show, I saw his handle and attached him to my frustrated tweets on Saturday, but I doubt he has much/anything to do with the stream. But he is there on site. I think he is also contracted by NBC to do the outdoor stuff too.)

There is also another Feld guy who is responsible for the TV production, I saw his handle on a retweet from Emig. I'll have to dig it up again. Anyway, I figure the only way to make this better is to get the attention of as many involved parties as possible.

Strangely enough I just got an e-mail from Cleeng apologizing for "miss communication in all of this", at 9:03 PM tonight. Coincidence?? I have blanked out my name and phone number with XX's but check out the dates. I e-mailed them Jan 19. They are responding on Feb 15 (and the time stamp tells me Cleeng is likely a European company). For the record, Cleeng has sorted out absolutely SWEET F*** ALL for me, other than doing exactly what I asked them not to do. If I knew who the head honcho was there I would send them this transaction to show what a completely inept company they run. But they probably don't care.




Cleeng Support Team (Cleeng Consumer)
Feb 15, 06:03 CET

Hi XXXX,

Thanks for your patience. My name is Matthew and I'm a Customer Success Specialist Manager at Cleeng and on behalf of Supercross

I'm sorry about the issues you are having and for the ongoing miss communication.
To recap, your purchase from December was refunded and now I can see that you have repurchased on the 26th January. So your account is active and valid.

I hope I was able to sort this out for you! If there is anything else, please don't hesitate to contact us.

Kind Regards,

Matthew
Cleeng Customer Success Team

mgilera@cleeng.com (Cleeng Consumer)
Jan 19, 22:33 CET

Hi,

We acknowledge receipt of your e-mail. Please give us time to review your concern so we can handle it accordingly. A Customer Success Specialist shall get back to you once details become available.

Thank you!

Kind Regards,

Cleeng Customer Success Team

XXXXXXXXXXX
Jan 19, 20:38 CET

OK, I see there is no phone support available on the contact page. Again, if anyone from Cleeng would like to contact me I am in Canada: 1-604-XXXXXXXX

Here are my questions I would like answered:

1. Is the refund that has been authorized for the entire season pass or just for the single event (Houston Supercross Round 2) last weekend?

2. I want to watch the events going forward, this is the only way for me to (legally) access live coverage. Is my account still active?

Sincerely,

XXXX

I am in Canada. I do not want a refund or my account to be closed. I am still wanting the content, I want to be able to watch tomorrow's event as planned.

Is there a contact number I can call you on?

Sincerely,

XXXX

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Old MXer turned Superfan.

2/15/2018 8:18 AM

hamncheeze wrote:

Well regardless of who is ultimately responsible, hopefully whoever runs social media for Supercrosslive got in touch with ...more

It looks like we are twins. I did pretty much the same thing you did and got the same canned responses. They refused to give me a phone number of someone to talk to and refused a second refund request.
On the PulpMX show one of the co-hosts confirmed that his streams have been crap and they played an angry voicemail from someone else.
I wonder how many subscribers they have already lost and will lose next year because of the price-gouging and incompetence?
If they weren't complete idiots they would offer a partial refund due to the "growing pains" or even a substantial discount for next year's package just to keep us suckers on the hook. Nope, got their one-time cash payment and that's all that matters.

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2/15/2018 8:32 AM

slowvetguy wrote:

Longtime lurker, first time poster.

Along with many others, I bought the Feld/Cleeng SX streaming package for this year. In ...more

Get on a VPN (free), go to any number of sports streaming sites (free), and find the supercross feeds (free). Most sports streaming sites have a Motorsports section.

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Motorcrosser

2/15/2018 8:53 AM

I believe Cleeng is located in Amsterdam. Probably makes sense....

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#1
KX125

2/15/2018 8:55 AM

Yes, I know about free internet streams. Said as much in my original post. Got a Kodi box just to watch SX, but happily bought NBC Gold package to support MX and for the quality and convenience. Happily did the same for SX, but won't again because there is no quality or convenience.

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2/18/2018 8:17 AM

Since I’m quick to criticize I should also be quick to praise. Last night’s stream was perfect. No problems at all. I hope “we” continue to get better each week.

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Old MXer turned Superfan.

2/18/2018 8:33 AM

I was streaming from the FX1 app and it's constantly atrocious, especially last night. I can't tell you how many times it would freeze right as a battle or pass was about to take place. Frustrating to say the least.

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2/18/2018 11:11 AM

hamncheeze wrote:

Yeah Jorge I think the ticket for YouTube TV is probably a pre-paid Visa card in US funds. And slowvetguy, I think this is the ...more

Outdoor MX coverage on NBC Gold is better because NBC has deep pockets, and didn't cheap out on the backend (bandwith and support staff) like Feld did. Also, Racer Productions has a good deal of experience with online broadcasting. Here's an interesting tidbit...you can watch GNCC events live (Saturday and Sunday afternoon events), and those are broadcast from literally the middle of nowhere (They use a satellite uplink to get their stream out to the distribution partner). RacerTV.com is where ya go for that...(not sure who does the backend though)

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Many thanks to everyone helping me out this GNCC season: SRT Offroad, Acerbis, FCR Suspension, O'Neal Racing, Evans Waterless Coolants, Rekluse, Twin Air, Braking Brakes, Carbsport

Profile image credit Ken Hill Photography

2/18/2018 11:31 AM

well i watched it on the supercross live with the yearly pass yesterday, 720p hd , not a single lag/bug or anything, did they fix their shit!?

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2002 KX125 (SOLD)/2001 KX250 (SOLD)
1999 KX250 (SOLD)
2016 RM-Z250(SOLD)
2018 KTM 150XC-W(current)

2/18/2018 12:44 PM

hamncheeze wrote:

Since I’m quick to criticize I should also be quick to praise. Last night’s stream was perfect. No problems at all. I hope “we ...more

Stream was good for me as well this weekend. 4 for 7 - yeah!

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2/18/2018 12:45 PM

hamncheeze wrote:

Yeah Jorge I think the ticket for YouTube TV is probably a pre-paid Visa card in US funds. And slowvetguy, I think this is the ...more

harescrambled wrote:

Outdoor MX coverage on NBC Gold is better because NBC has deep pockets, and didn't cheap out on the backend (bandwith and ...more

Yeah, it is not like Feld and Fox don’t have enough dough. Plus they charged so much.

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2/18/2018 12:46 PM

Arrowangel wrote:

well i watched it on the supercross live with the yearly pass yesterday, 720p hd , not a single lag/bug or anything, did they ...more

We’ll see. Weeks 2, 5 and 6 horrible but the other weeks it worked well. Doubt we won’t have significant issues the rest of the way.

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2/18/2018 2:20 PM

Stream worked well for me last night.
I had a house full of SX Fans again...was praying it wouldn't crash and burn like so often.
I don't mind paying, just give me service like last night, and we're happy!

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2/18/2018 3:10 PM

Bineano wrote:

Stream worked well for me last night.
I had a house full of SX Fans again...was praying it wouldn't crash and burn like so ...more

Pretty cool of you sharing the love....

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Many thanks to everyone helping me out this GNCC season: SRT Offroad, Acerbis, FCR Suspension, O'Neal Racing, Evans Waterless Coolants, Rekluse, Twin Air, Braking Brakes, Carbsport

Profile image credit Ken Hill Photography