SNOCROSS

Rhino
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11/26/2017 6:57am
Paul Page is an amazing announcer and is a gearhead who does his homework. Doubt he is affordable anymore.

Ted Otto needs to be the flagger. He was a show all on his own.
-MAVERICK-
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11/26/2017 7:26am
-MAVERICK- wrote:
Doing it forever is an understatement lol. This is his 18th pro season. Still pretty pissed they went away with the mods. Not sure who's/was behind...
Doing it forever is an understatement lol. This is his 18th pro season.

Still pretty pissed they went away with the mods. Not sure who's/was behind that decision but he/they clearly wasn't/weren't thinking straight when that decision was made. I just think there's not enough difference between the Pro Lite class and Pro class now. In the previous years I didn't even have to look at the screen to know it was the Pro Open class on track and now I have to look at the screen and see which class is written on the screen. I know the Pro Lite class have the unobstructed headlights but still.

I'll give it to ISOC that they aren't afraid to try new things to see if they work or not. It seems like they make changes to the series every year and you don't see any shortage of riders showing up so they're doing something right.

Tomorrow's opening ceremonies starts at noon EST.

Side Note: They have to get rid of the Schroeder guy. I really can't stand him saying drivers and independent driver a thousand times during the broadcast. It's RIDER/S and PRIVATEER/S FFS. Colby Crapo is an ex racer and is new to the announcing gig but he needs to practice a lot. He should of been practicing over the course of the summer. Hopefully he'll get better because as a racer he's got knowledge and a different point of view.
motox11 wrote:
I put in motos with Corin Todd a lot during the summer since we only live 20 minutes apart so I'm always happy to see him...
I put in motos with Corin Todd a lot during the summer since we only live 20 minutes apart so I'm always happy to see him have success, but I cringe now every time Schroeder mentions him because I know the word "independent" is coming. Don't even get me started on calling them drivers... Serious pet peeves of mine.
LOL good to know I'm not the only one out there that can't stand it. Imagine if Ralph kept dropping those lines on the SX broadcast, people around here would seriously complain even more about him than they already do. Personally I don't mind Ralph but it's a good thing those words aren't in his vocabulary or I'd go nuts during the winter season between SX and SnoX.
Park Boys
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11/26/2017 8:02am Edited Date/Time 11/26/2017 8:07am
I miss the ESPN days with Greg Creamer, Marty Reid and at times Paul Page. I had the 97-2000 seasons on VHS but wore them out...
I miss the ESPN days with Greg Creamer, Marty Reid and at times Paul Page. I had the 97-2000 seasons on VHS but wore them out or lost them years ago. The production was so much more professional. Miss those days...
I remember in 2000 with Tucker and Blair winning every race. The Snopros were light years ahead of everyone else then, Wasn't until the Rev came out until the my were dethroned. I'm pretty sure In Blairs first year at Ski doo he had to ride the rev in 600 and the old tank in 440 and he hated the old 440 compared to the old snopros and his rev chassis.
-MAVERICK-
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11/26/2017 8:22am
I miss the ESPN days with Greg Creamer, Marty Reid and at times Paul Page. I had the 97-2000 seasons on VHS but wore them out...
I miss the ESPN days with Greg Creamer, Marty Reid and at times Paul Page. I had the 97-2000 seasons on VHS but wore them out or lost them years ago. The production was so much more professional. Miss those days...
Park Boys wrote:
I remember in 2000 with Tucker and Blair winning every race. The Snopros were light years ahead of everyone else then, Wasn't until the Rev came...
I remember in 2000 with Tucker and Blair winning every race. The Snopros were light years ahead of everyone else then, Wasn't until the Rev came out until the my were dethroned. I'm pretty sure In Blairs first year at Ski doo he had to ride the rev in 600 and the old tank in 440 and he hated the old 440 compared to the old snopros and his rev chassis.
The REV platform from Ski-Doo revolutionized the sport of Snocross and how riders ride. Glad they came out with it. Imagine if we'd still be riding "sit down" style sleds. New sleds are stand up style and are more like riding an MX bike than an ATV in my opinion. Amazing the stuff they can do on the newer style sleds. Jump distances, height, etc. No way they could do that with the older sleds.

The Shop

Springcreek
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11/26/2017 8:45am
When I was involved way back in the 90,s one year Tony Haiikenen won ProLite and Pro Open and took home $10,000 purse from MRP and $5000 from Ski Doo contingencies, we had 1000 race entries and in 1997 it was on ESPN.
SKIDLID
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11/26/2017 9:09am
When I was involved way back in the 90,s one year Tony Haiikenen won ProLite and Pro Open and took home $10,000 purse from MRP and...
When I was involved way back in the 90,s one year Tony Haiikenen won ProLite and Pro Open and took home $10,000 purse from MRP and $5000 from Ski Doo contingencies, we had 1000 race entries and in 1997 it was on ESPN.
You guys ran it great, slowly fell apart once new ownership came in.
Rhino
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11/26/2017 9:16am
I don't follow it much anymore since Blair Morgan was hurt but Sounds like the sport got neutered like moto did without cool works bikes?

I remember when we happened to get a chance to go to the X games in Crested Butte, long before the move to Aspen and back then they raced 800cc twin pipe mods. Just one started up and everyone there looked over like Holy Shit do you hear that?

A few years ago I read an ESPN article that said they moved to 600 modified because 800s were too fast and few could handle them.

I just googled and saw another RECENT article that said very few can handle a 600 mod, so they dumped that too in favor of basically a stock machine with a pipe.





Say “goodbye” to these stunning and tricked-out Pro Open mod sleds in snocross this coming season. They’re gone, replaced by Stock sleds with raspier, slightly louder exhaust. That sound you hear? Sadly, it’s not the howl of 160-hp mod engines and twin tuned pipes. Instead, it’s the proverbial road to hell, being paved with good intentions. This past weekend, some of the powers*** who guide snocross racing implemented a new Pro Open class rule for the upcoming season, in which these riders will race essentially stock sleds that are equipped with loud(er) mufflers.
No engine mods, no changes to the pipe, no chassis changes, just a louder can. This will sound familiar if you saw the Pro Lite class this past season, which ran under the same rules. Pro Lite will again race stock-with-loud-mufflers again this upcoming season. The MAJOR difference between Pro Lite and Pro Open sleds for 2018? Well, the Pro Open sleds are allowed to “obscure” their headlights, but not remove them (don’t ask, it’s a long story for another time).

What this means for racing fans who throw down their entertainment dollars to attend a snocross national (including extra fees to walk the pits), is that the only tricked-out, visually modified snowmobiles parked outside of race trailers or braaaping on the track will be kids’ Champ 120 sleds.
Makes sense that the most exotic snowmobiles will be raced by 6-year olds, right? There are many layers to this onion, and this story isn’t going to peel back every single one. But I would like to tackle a few. First, why this happened. From what I’ve gathered, this all started because circuits are concerned about the lack of entries in the Pro Open class where, this past season, there were barely enough racers to have two heat races. The circuits’ belief is that would-be Pro Open teams/racers are intimidated by ultra-exotic Open sleds that (they believe) are only available to a handful of racers; and the cost of going Pro Open racing is too high. In their minds, a switch to Stock class sleds in Pro Open solves all these problems: It levels the playing field and reduces costs; therefore, more racers are going to jump into the Pro Open class.

Circuits have this ass-backwards. Here’s why: First, I call BS on the premise that racers aren’t jumping into the Open class because they believe there’s unequal equipment. Racers aren’t moving up because: 1. There’s a huge difference in talent/experience between the top Pro Open racers and the next tier of Pro Open racers. Likewise, there’s another jump in talent/experience between the second tier Open racers and those in Pro Lite. We’ve watched what happens when most Pro Lite racers make the jump to Open: they get chewed up and spit out the back. This isn’t a knock on these racers, rather, it’s an acknowledgement of just how talented, experienced and prepared the very top Pro racers are. Changing the rules to Stock sleds isn’t going to reduce the talent, experience and preparedness of the top racers one bit. 2. Some OEMs reward Pro Lite and Sport class racers to win Lite and Sport races and championships. Why would these racers forgo the riches – as well as the television time devoted to them by the race circuits – to move into a higher class and then struggle to qualify for the finals? They won’t. Second, why the new rule changes will do very little to reduce costs and grow participation. Now that the top Pros will race stock sleds, the cost of those sleds is going to skyrocket for EVERYONE (including Sport, Junior and the proverbial newcomers). That’s because in their quest to win, the OEMs will build production sleds with more exotic, lighter materials and more time spent on the development dyno. In the history of snowmobile racing, when the Pros race true stock sleds, the OEMs produce ever more sophisticated (and costly) stock sleds. It’s always been this way. That translates into increased costs. Maybe not for the top Pro teams (which, I remind you, consists of about 15 total racers) who get free sleds, but for the hundreds of Junior and Sport riders who actually comprise the foundation of racing. And who pay for their snowmobiles. So what the circuits just did was to increase the cost of race sleds for ALL snocross racers in order to save a few grand for 15 riders. I agree with the sentiment that the cost of going snocross racing is too high, but the way to fix the situations isn’t to make rules that will force OEMs to build more expensive stock sleds. If the national circuits want to reduce the costs of racing, let them start by: * Eliminating race locations that cost piles of money for teams to get to and that don’t bring in many fans; * Canceling races if there isn’t adequate snow (or if it’s a mudfest), rather than having a race that ends up destroying engines, tracks, skidframes and more; * Create production sled rules that require EPA compliancy, which will make it possible for racers to sell their machines at a decent price at the end of the race season; * Build National race tracks that cater to 120, Junior and Sport class racers, and revise the daily schedule to accommodate it, which might mean scheduling Pro classes on Saturday, then “switching” the track to a 120/Junior/Sport layout and focusing on these classes for Sunday. Watching the feeder class kids pound into monstrous jumps sized and spaced for more powerful sleds lap-after-lap does not look fun. And it isn’t, according to kids I’ve talked to. Make their tracks fun and designed for lower power, and these classes will look far more appealing to would-be racers. Conversely, the “Pro track” could then be made without consideration for the small classes, and thus be more fun/challenging for the racers and more entertaining for the spectators. The last point I’ll make is this: If the race circuits want to grow the sport, I believe they need to invert their thinking (rather than the starts). The best way to grow anything is to focus on the foundation. For a race circuit, that means the Junior and Sport classes, not the Pro Open riders. Whew! I’m pretty fired up about this whole deal. In part because I want to see true Pro Open sleds, but mainly because I think the rule change will do the exact opposite of its intention. I believe the circuits and aftermarket group are trying to do the right thing for the sport, they just have it wrong. I fully expect the cream to do what it always does: rise to the top. The Pro Open class will struggle to fill two heats and the same few guys will continue to win. But everyone else is going to pay for it. And the fans won’t get to see the badass mod sleds oozing custom trickery. ***Due to a procedural hiccup, the Pro Open sled rule change was made by the race circuits and the aftermarket advisory group, not by any OEMs or ISR itself. Polaris and some of the circuits pushed it through. Arctic Cat, Ski-Doo and ISR were very much against this major change. Worse, rules like this are supposed to go into effect for the FOLLOWING race season, not the upcoming one. The circuits violated their own rules on this one.

In regards to the health of the race program. They really, really need to follow the snow. It's no surprise the OEMs have as the mountain market is probably the only market that's growing YoY .



yak651
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11/26/2017 9:47am
Same problem as in MX/SX, most years one racer is way faster than the rest and it makes it boring to watch. What fun is watching when you already know whos going to win before the race starts
-MAVERICK-
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11/26/2017 3:39pm
richter28 wrote:
That red #1 looks gooooooood...
Kody didn’t get to keep that red plate very long... [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2017/11/26/227821/s1200_19BF5C98_3E73_4919_99D6_631533D53195.jpg[/img]
Kody didn’t get to keep that red plate very long...
Kamm had the number 1 on the red plate yesterday since he was coming in the season as the defending champion.
11/26/2017 4:01pm
Yeah, he’ll be running the #1 all season but lost the red plate for now.

I was actually a little surprised he went with the #1. I don’t remember the last time a defending champ ran it. Tucker never did and I don’t believe Tremblay or Ross Martin did either.

What did you think of the racing overall? I’m still not sold on the new sled rules, but must concede the racing was really good. I wonder if they will eventually bring in a lower displacement class for the semi-pro, lites class or whatever they call it. Maybe bring back the 440’s or have kits to sleeve down the 600’s or some other restrictions. Having the 1st and second tier classes on the same exact equipment is no good in my opinion.
-MAVERICK-
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11/26/2017 5:07pm
Yeah, he’ll be running the #1 all season but lost the red plate for now. I was actually a little surprised he went with the #1...
Yeah, he’ll be running the #1 all season but lost the red plate for now.

I was actually a little surprised he went with the #1. I don’t remember the last time a defending champ ran it. Tucker never did and I don’t believe Tremblay or Ross Martin did either.

What did you think of the racing overall? I’m still not sold on the new sled rules, but must concede the racing was really good. I wonder if they will eventually bring in a lower displacement class for the semi-pro, lites class or whatever they call it. Maybe bring back the 440’s or have kits to sleeve down the 600’s or some other restrictions. Having the 1st and second tier classes on the same exact equipment is no good in my opinion.
I found it a little odd that Kamm didn't stick with the 53. It might of been a team/sponsor decision. Tremblay kept the 11 when he was the defending champ and Martin kept his 837.

I'm not a fan of the new rule. Pro Lite and Pro are on the same equipment with the only difference being the Pro class can run a sticker over the headlight. BFD!

I don't think the manufacturers are going to introduce smaller engines for the Pro Lite class. In my opinion both should stick to 600's but bring back the mods for the Pro/Pro Open class.

Too late to change things up now but hopefully they'll be back next year.

Imagine if Reed, Tomac, Wilson, Musquin, Roczen, etc. were on 250's as well but those already on 250's like Savatgy, Cianciarulo, Plessinger, etc. would have to stay in 250 Lite for X number of years before moving up to 250 Pro. Doesn't make sense. I'm glad they have a 450 class. Not only is it another stepping stone it's also a whole new beast to learn how to ride. Some have success and some don't but that's part of the challenge. It was that way in snocross and it should return to that. Sure both are 600cc engines but once you jump on a Mod 600 vs a stock 600 it's easy to see they're far from being the same.
cable
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11/26/2017 7:48pm
I think it would be awesome for them to bring in Blair Morgan, but he’s probably not interested. Not sure if he’s still helping Tremblay or...
I think it would be awesome for them to bring in Blair Morgan, but he’s probably not interested. Not sure if he’s still helping Tremblay or not. Levi Lavallee would probably be great in the booth also.
Blair is racing the adaptive class at Xgames?, last i heard. not sure how its going for him.
11/26/2017 7:57pm
cable wrote:
Blair is racing the adaptive class at Xgames?, last i heard. not sure how its going for him.
Last I knew, Blair was helping out Tim Tremblay. Not sure if there will be adaptive Snocross this year at winter X, but there is no regular snocross this year. Only snowbikes.
11/26/2017 7:58pm
Blair went through some really hard times after his injury. He’s doing better now though, from what I’ve heard.
-MAVERICK-
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11/26/2017 7:59pm
I think it would be awesome for them to bring in Blair Morgan, but he’s probably not interested. Not sure if he’s still helping Tremblay or...
I think it would be awesome for them to bring in Blair Morgan, but he’s probably not interested. Not sure if he’s still helping Tremblay or not. Levi Lavallee would probably be great in the booth also.
cable wrote:
Blair is racing the adaptive class at Xgames?, last i heard. not sure how its going for him.
There's absolutely no snocross at X-Games this year. Track last year absolutely sucked. Everyone hated it.

Blair is racing adaptive snobike-cross. I saw a clip of him just riding around. Bike wasn't modified or anything. Pretty sure the one he'll ride will have leg bars in case he tips over. Not sure who else is riding that class because it's not even listed. Still pretty cool.

Adaptive snocross is something that I had interest in doing since the first year they had it but it's expensive without sponsors. Not sure how the adaptive snobike-cross event will go but the snowbike segment is growing.

There's going to be a best trick event for snowbikes along with racing at the 2018 event.
-MAVERICK-
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11/26/2017 8:14pm
cable wrote:
Blair is racing the adaptive class at Xgames?, last i heard. not sure how its going for him.
Last I knew, Blair was helping out Tim Tremblay. Not sure if there will be adaptive Snocross this year at winter X, but there is no...
Last I knew, Blair was helping out Tim Tremblay. Not sure if there will be adaptive Snocross this year at winter X, but there is no regular snocross this year. Only snowbikes.
Still helping the Scheuring Speed Sports Team. I was surprised that he never lined up for adaptive snocross to be honest. From what I understand since he got back on a sled after his injury he just didn't feel like participating in the event. Maybe just riding around was enough.

I don't think he's ever been back on a bike since his injury so with snowbikes being more stable it gave him that opportunity. Most of the guys that ran in adaptive snocross were hurt riding moto so maybe more people will participate in that event. I wouldn't mind giving it a shot but I think it would be difficult to get over the bigger jumps compared to a sled since it's more balanced.

Anyone know if Henry has been riding a snowbike recently?

One thing I never understood and never agreed with was having the para athlete's competing against the amputee athletes. Amputees have a way bigger advantage and it's no wonder Mike Schultz is a multi-time gold medalist. I believe they should be 2 seperate classes. You don't see sit down skiers against amputees anywhere so in my opinion it should be that way at X-Games.

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