Ryan Dungey Penalized, Jason Anderson Wins

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3/25/2018 8:58 PM

Copied from RacerX So why wasn't the same penalty handed out to Martin ?

March 19th 2016

It appeared Ryan Dungey jetted of with his sixth win of the season tonight at Detroit's Ford Field, but Racer X has learned of a huge shakeup in the results, with Dungey receiving a two-position penalty for jumping through a section where a red cross flag was being shown. This moves second-place Jason Anderson up to take the win--his second of the year and his career--and Marvin Musquin to third. Marvin was second until the last lap when he fell, handing second to Anderson. That would have been a win for Marvin.

The AMA official results are now showing Anderson as the winner, with Musquin and Dungey second and third. We've just received a phone call from a source at the AMA indicating those results will stand, and Anderson is the official winner in Detroit.

No, we can't think of the last time this has happened!

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3/25/2018 9:11 PM

You know why

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Cheers, Crush
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3/25/2018 9:18 PM

Crush wrote:

You know why

Red Bull athlete?

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3/25/2018 9:18 PM

im gonna guess that when Martin rolled the first part of the triple, he saw an empty track, so he assumed the flag was about to go down, and didnt want everyone to catch up to him because they would be able to hit the triple.

Not saying its the right thing to do, but its a pretty good reason as to why he would do what he did.

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3/25/2018 9:27 PM
Edited Date/Time: 3/25/2018 9:32 PM

I thought i read something about if the rider gains an advantage by jumping through the section then the take away positions. If the don't gain an advantage like martin the dock points.
Ill go try to find it

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3/25/2018 9:30 PM

Here ya go..
Photo

Photo

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3/25/2018 9:39 PM

You guys and that pesky rule book...

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www.bettercallsaul.com
Die Antwoord

3/25/2018 9:47 PM
Edited Date/Time: 3/25/2018 9:55 PM

gt80rider wrote:

You guys and that pesky rule book...

Im just stating the rules. i think its dumb jmart was docked. I even noticed that medical flag not waiving when they showed the reply. But it is what it is.

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3/25/2018 11:22 PM

My issue is the inconsistency in the penalty. That’s what everyone complains about. If you have a rule and it’s broken the penalty should be consistent across the board.

I don’t want to see Martin lose the win, and didn’t want to see Dungey lose that win in Detroit in 2016 on a technicality. But if the penalty for jumping under a Red Cross flag is losing 2 positions then always dock 2 positions. If it’s 5 seconds then dock 5 seconds. If it’s a black flag then black flag. But don’t change the penalty based on how the official “feels” about it at the time.

There should be no judgement calls on the rule book. As much as I hate F1s draconian rule book and penalties at least they try and be consistent. In football an offsides is 5 yards, holding is 10. It’s not sometimes 2 yards (unless it’s half the distance to the goal) but that’s been specified and followed.

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3/26/2018 12:56 AM

AC mentioned in his post race vlog that there was a few riders who were protested for it.

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3/26/2018 2:30 AM

Crush wrote:

You know why

HuskyEd wrote:

Red Bull athlete?

Bro, you don't need a tin-foil hat. The sport is adjudicated by some of the most inconsistent muppets you could ever imagine – straight clowns with nothing but a track record of what the fuck to show for it.

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Cheers, Crush
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3/26/2018 5:13 AM

drenmaster wrote:

Here ya go..
Photo

Photo

Right, but dunge received a different penalty than Martin for the same offense.

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3/26/2018 5:18 AM

drenmaster wrote:

Here ya go..
Photo

Photo

mx196 wrote:

Right, but dunge received a different penalty than Martin for the same offense.

Maybe the rules were different in 2016 and were written more clearly after the Dungy docking....

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3/26/2018 5:50 AM

Pretty sure Dungey jumped the whole obstacle and didn't attempt to slow down at all

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3/26/2018 5:55 AM

DonM wrote:

Maybe the rules were different in 2016 and were written more clearly after the Dungy docking....

This

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3/26/2018 6:51 AM

mx196 wrote:

Right, but dunge received a different penalty than Martin for the same offense.

I remember the race but not exactly how it went down.

If the the rules and circumstances are the same then yea its bs they dock dungy and not martin.

But when have the rules been 100% fair to all riders?

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3/26/2018 8:54 AM

Should just make it easy. Two positions. Award 2nd and 3rd with 1st and 2nd in points. Award 1st with 3rd place points. Award 2nd the W in the record books. Stupid to do it the way they did it.

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3/26/2018 9:37 AM

I would like to hear more about this "Dungey docking"...

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3/26/2018 9:44 AM

TDeath21 wrote:

Should just make it easy. Two positions. Award 2nd and 3rd with 1st and 2nd in points. Award 1st with 3rd place points. Award ...more

I think the point that is being made by the rule (points and prize money, not position) is that when someone is given a win and they stand on the podium and do interviews and take photos they don't want to change that outcome. Right or wrong I bet that is the logic.

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3/26/2018 10:03 AM

mx196 wrote:

Right, but dunge received a different penalty than Martin for the same offense.

DonM wrote:

Maybe the rules were different in 2016 and were written more clearly after the Dungy docking....

early wrote:

This

Yes sir.. Different Years...Different Rules

Photo



Photo

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3/26/2018 10:10 AM

i think they have a dart-board in a poorly lit restroom and the dart board has a bunch of penalties thought up by a 6 year old instead of numbers. then they butt-chug some vodka followed by getting blindfolded and spinning 3 times before throwing a dart and giving the penalty.

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3/26/2018 10:20 AM

peelout wrote:

i think they have a dart-board in a poorly lit restroom and the dart board has a bunch of penalties thought up by a 6 year old ...more

Too bad the riders didn’t have a union representative to engage in arbitration and appeal a penalty implemented that clearly had written language on how to exactly enforce said penalty.

Oh well. Onto next week. suck it up you individual contractors you!!

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GP740
Since 1987

3/26/2018 11:58 AM

peelout wrote:

i think they have a dart-board in a poorly lit restroom and the dart board has a bunch of penalties thought up by a 6 year old ...more

GeorgiePorgie wrote:

Too bad the riders didn’t have a union representative to engage in arbitration and appeal a penalty implemented that clearly ...more

They enforced it exactly how it is written in the rule book...what more do you want them to do?

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3/26/2018 12:29 PM
Edited Date/Time: 3/26/2018 12:32 PM

I vividly remember Dungey's infraction being a little different than Martin's. Martin absolutely saw the flag since he chose to roll the first 1/3 of the jump but not the last 2/3. Conversely, Dungey was committed to the jump THEN saw the flag. After landing he looked over his shoulder to confirm what he thought he saw while accelerating up the jump face. Then proceeded to roll the rest.

The rule is for safety. They're simply trying to deter riders from putting other riders in danger. However, in Dungey's case, he would have put himself (A RIDER) in extreme danger. He would have had to try to "not" to jump a triple he was fully committed to when he saw the flag.

To me they are quite different.... Martin chose to jump "AFTER" he successfully rolled the first obstacle. Dungey would have had to chop the throttle and potentially go to the hospital.

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Before responding to any post, consider these three things...
1. Context!
2. Context!
3. Context!

3/26/2018 12:36 PM

jnickell wrote:

I vividly remember Dungey's infraction being a little different than Martin's. Martin absolutely saw the flag since he chose ...more

They we're both given the appropriate penalty according to the rulebook for each respective season. They just happened to have changed the penalty after it was given to Dungey. Reason for the infraction doesn't really matter.

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3/26/2018 12:52 PM

jnickell wrote:

I vividly remember Dungey's infraction being a little different than Martin's. Martin absolutely saw the flag since he chose ...more

early wrote:

They we're both given the appropriate penalty according to the rulebook for each respective season. They just happened to have ...more

I agree with your comment about the reason. What you're saying is that he should have been penalized even if he was already mid air and floating over the triple when they threw the flag. In that case, he was jumping a triple while the red cross flag was flying. To me, that's no different than full commitment to jumping the triple at the same time. A line has to be drawn somewhere and it has to be subjectively drawn. The subjectivity creates another problem though. None of us trust the always subjective AMA.

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Before responding to any post, consider these three things...
1. Context!
2. Context!
3. Context!

3/26/2018 1:16 PM
Edited Date/Time: 3/26/2018 1:20 PM

jnickell wrote:

I agree with your comment about the reason. What you're saying is that he should have been penalized even if he was already ...more

No, I think there can be subjectivity depending on the situation. If I remember correctly with Dungey the flag was out but he didn't see it, you can't set a precedent of the rider saying I didn't see it. Just like I bet J Martbsaw the rider down and figured he was past the situation so he double out, still a bad precedent. So I don't think either was subjective in this case, they doubled when flags were displayed before they were clear of the no jumping zone.

It would be subjective if there was a question as to whether the flag was actually displayed or if a rider jumped too far on a single while the flag was out.

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3/26/2018 1:44 PM

http://racerxonline.com/2018/03/26/250-words-explaining-the-martin-penalty

"So, why did that not happen to Martin? Well, it’s because the rulebook changed after the 2016 season. That means the 2018 rulebook has a different rule than what Dungey faced in 2016. "

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3/26/2018 1:47 PM

twotwosix wrote:

http://racerxonline.com/2018/03/26/250-words-explaining-the-martin-penalty

"So, why did that not happen to Martin? Well, it’s ...more

If you read earlier in the thread I pointed this out..

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3/26/2018 2:36 PM

twotwosix wrote:

http://racerxonline.com/2018/03/26/250-words-explaining-the-martin-penalty

"So, why did that not happen to Martin? Well, it’s ...more

DonM wrote:

If you read earlier in the thread I pointed this out..

it still should award the points accordingly.

the 7 points should have went somewhere not just bye bye

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