Ruts and dragging rear brake

wwoberg
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wwoberg
Edited Date/Time 12/8/2015 5:32pm
Raised in So Cal I never learned how to ride ruts. I now live in TN and all the tracks have ruts. Been back riding about 8 yrs now and still don't have it down decent. I attended a Marty Smith school this fall and he showed me the trick of dragging the rear brake. It really works.

But, I have an awful time trying to get my foot in the proper position to gently touch the rear brake. My toe is always pointed down when I'm up on the tank executing a turn. What's the trick? Do you lower the brake lever? Or take your foot completely of the peg and just use your toe? I was taught, back long time ago, to push down on that outside peg. Thats what I do. Just can't do both.
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rmzrider91
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rmzrider91 12/7/2015 8:13pm
12/7/2015 8:13pm
I drag the brake getting into the turn seems to help settle the bike down. Mostly in left hander's for obvious reasons. Usually just rest my foot on it. Then back to foot on peg.
Grieby54
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Grieby54 12/7/2015 8:46pm
12/7/2015 8:46pm
wwoberg wrote:
Raised in So Cal I never learned how to ride ruts. I now live in TN and all the tracks have ruts. Been back riding about...
Raised in So Cal I never learned how to ride ruts. I now live in TN and all the tracks have ruts. Been back riding about 8 yrs now and still don't have it down decent. I attended a Marty Smith school this fall and he showed me the trick of dragging the rear brake. It really works.

But, I have an awful time trying to get my foot in the proper position to gently touch the rear brake. My toe is always pointed down when I'm up on the tank executing a turn. What's the trick? Do you lower the brake lever? Or take your foot completely of the peg and just use your toe? I was taught, back long time ago, to push down on that outside peg. Thats what I do. Just can't do both.
I take my foot off the peg when I need to drag the brake. It's good to weight your outside peg when you can, but it's much more important in flat corners than rutted corners. You weight the outside peg to put weight down on the side of the tire for more traction. In the rut, you're not using the side of your tire as much.
rt987
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rt987 12/7/2015 8:47pm
12/7/2015 8:47pm Edited Date/Time 12/7/2015 8:49pm
I've heard a lot of pros say to absolutely never drag the rear brake in turns, maybe the front brake slightly but never the rear. You want all your braking done before the corner, then kind of "freewheel" through the turn. I've always heard go slow, to go fast when it comes to ruts. But keeping enough acceleration not to lose balance, if that makes sense.

I had an awful habit of dragging the rear, and once I broke it I found that I smoothed out my corner transition (brake to accelerate) considerably. The front sets the bike down a bit and to me it feels more stable coming into the rut.

Of course, I could be wrong. I'm not a pro haha
fmfred
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fmfred 12/7/2015 8:57pm
12/7/2015 8:57pm
Like rt said, drag the front. The harder you pull the brake lever, the more your bike will lay over in the rut.

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Grizz
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Grizz 12/7/2015 9:06pm
12/7/2015 9:06pm
rt987 wrote:
I've heard a lot of pros say to absolutely never drag the rear brake in turns, maybe the front brake slightly but never the rear. You...
I've heard a lot of pros say to absolutely never drag the rear brake in turns, maybe the front brake slightly but never the rear. You want all your braking done before the corner, then kind of "freewheel" through the turn. I've always heard go slow, to go fast when it comes to ruts. But keeping enough acceleration not to lose balance, if that makes sense.

I had an awful habit of dragging the rear, and once I broke it I found that I smoothed out my corner transition (brake to accelerate) considerably. The front sets the bike down a bit and to me it feels more stable coming into the rut.

Of course, I could be wrong. I'm not a pro haha
You're right. Don't drag the rear, drag the front but usually only if you're having trouble keeping the front end from popping out of ruts. I run my rear brake really low so I won't drag it on accident because I also have that habit and big feet.
Crush
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Crush 12/7/2015 9:14pm
12/7/2015 9:14pm
Should be your front to keep it... Your rear should be freewheeling to let the suspension work...
elfrago
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elfrago 12/7/2015 10:53pm
12/7/2015 10:53pm
Yeah, I drag the front brake a little and get on the balls of my feet to weight the outside peg and use zero rear brake, but everyone's got different styles and methods...
Skerby
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Skerby 12/7/2015 11:19pm
12/7/2015 11:19pm
Rear brake drag also plants the front wheel right? Sounds like a cool technique. Ive always had trouble with standing on my brake when im exiting berms. Not a huge deal on a 450, big deal on 125.
brimx153
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brimx153 12/8/2015 12:18am
12/8/2015 12:18am
Dragging a rear brake in a rut is a big no no. It's impossible to lean the bike over .drag the front if it's a shallow one.keeps u in it . If it's deep no need to , drag any brakes . look really far ahead and learn to lean the bike , if ur not dragging ur pegs your doing it wrong! . that's the key to ruts imo
Motocross83 12/8/2015 1:55am
12/8/2015 1:55am
Grieby54 wrote:
I take my foot off the peg when I need to drag the brake. It's good to weight your outside peg when you can, but it's...
I take my foot off the peg when I need to drag the brake. It's good to weight your outside peg when you can, but it's much more important in flat corners than rutted corners. You weight the outside peg to put weight down on the side of the tire for more traction. In the rut, you're not using the side of your tire as much.
Yeah I believe that's the way you're meant to do it, lift your heel and control the rear brake with the toe (when sitting and braking).

ridinbeast932 12/8/2015 4:13am
12/8/2015 4:13am
Anyone have any tips for breaking the habit of dragging the rear brake through the turn? I was at a camp last wk where I realized that's holding me back. I have no consistency between left/right turns because I'm tentative to get my right foot off the brake in right handers.
Talan_Hansen
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Talan_Hansen 12/8/2015 5:12am
12/8/2015 5:12am
ridinbeast932 wrote:
Anyone have any tips for breaking the habit of dragging the rear brake through the turn? I was at a camp last wk where I realized...
Anyone have any tips for breaking the habit of dragging the rear brake through the turn? I was at a camp last wk where I realized that's holding me back. I have no consistency between left/right turns because I'm tentative to get my right foot off the brake in right handers.
I had the same habit for a long time but when I started training at Club57, he would make us ride the corner track with no rear brake, only front and we couldn't take our feet off the pegs. It was really hard to learn but it really teaches you how to commit. Also you never want to get on the throttle until the apex of the corner. It really works!
tprice07
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tprice07 12/8/2015 6:20am
12/8/2015 6:20am
The only time I would touch my rear brake in the actual corner would be if I came into the corner too hot and the rear end is way up. Otherwise I use the front brake to pitch the weight of the bike onto that front wheel for traction. I would think if you are dragging the rear brake through turns you would likely take traction away from the front end and wash out.
419250f
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419250f 12/8/2015 7:08am
12/8/2015 7:08am
If you watch the Nationals on your DVR in slow-mo, you will see almost 100% of the riders dragging
their rear brake in ruts until the apex. Same with the front brake.
Gary S. teaches this method as well.
Doug. D. would disagree with this.
Like someone else said, everyone has their own style/methods.
kkawboy14
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kkawboy14 12/8/2015 7:26am
12/8/2015 7:26am
419250f wrote:
If you watch the Nationals on your DVR in slow-mo, you will see almost 100% of the riders dragging their rear brake in ruts until the...
If you watch the Nationals on your DVR in slow-mo, you will see almost 100% of the riders dragging
their rear brake in ruts until the apex. Same with the front brake.
Gary S. teaches this method as well.
Doug. D. would disagree with this.
Like someone else said, everyone has their own style/methods.
It all depends on how fast your going and it's very hard if your not a pro to use just enough rear brake. Usually most guys will even accidentally slam the rear brake. 1 finger on the front is much easier to control
boots_and_braces 12/8/2015 7:43am
12/8/2015 7:43am
when riding ruts..always look forward..keep your head up. if you focus on the rut itself you get cross-rutted and wind up swapping

just keep your head up and ride through them like puddles
Gringoe
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Gringoe 12/8/2015 7:53am
12/8/2015 7:53am
419250f wrote:
If you watch the Nationals on your DVR in slow-mo, you will see almost 100% of the riders dragging their rear brake in ruts until the...
If you watch the Nationals on your DVR in slow-mo, you will see almost 100% of the riders dragging
their rear brake in ruts until the apex. Same with the front brake.
Gary S. teaches this method as well.
Doug. D. would disagree with this.
Like someone else said, everyone has their own style/methods.
100%? Really? While leaned In ruts?

Learn something from you folk everyday

Dragging rear brake in a real rut while trying to turn is basically the Anti-Christ of what you want to do
Trav138
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Trav138 12/8/2015 7:57am
12/8/2015 7:57am
419250f wrote:
If you watch the Nationals on your DVR in slow-mo, you will see almost 100% of the riders dragging their rear brake in ruts until the...
If you watch the Nationals on your DVR in slow-mo, you will see almost 100% of the riders dragging
their rear brake in ruts until the apex. Same with the front brake.
Gary S. teaches this method as well.
Doug. D. would disagree with this.
Like someone else said, everyone has their own style/methods.
i think alot of what you said is they drag the rear brake entering the rut/turn to keep the rear wheel down over the huge braking bumps, and square edged stuff that developes at the entrance into a rut.
i havn't noticed to much dragging the rear through the rut til the apex but like you said everyone has different styles

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419250f
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419250f 12/8/2015 8:09am
12/8/2015 8:09am
419250f wrote:
If you watch the Nationals on your DVR in slow-mo, you will see almost 100% of the riders dragging their rear brake in ruts until the...
If you watch the Nationals on your DVR in slow-mo, you will see almost 100% of the riders dragging
their rear brake in ruts until the apex. Same with the front brake.
Gary S. teaches this method as well.
Doug. D. would disagree with this.
Like someone else said, everyone has their own style/methods.
kkawboy14 wrote:
It all depends on how fast your going and it's very hard if your not a pro to use just enough rear brake. Usually most guys...
It all depends on how fast your going and it's very hard if your not a pro to use just enough rear brake. Usually most guys will even accidentally slam the rear brake. 1 finger on the front is much easier to control
Agreed.
Dragging the front made the biggest improvement for me by far.
But still, I do slow-mo the pro races and pay special attention to their feet and front brake finger.
JaredPartridge 12/8/2015 8:13am
12/8/2015 8:13am
Trav138 wrote:
i think alot of what you said is they drag the rear brake entering the rut/turn to keep the rear wheel down over the huge braking...
i think alot of what you said is they drag the rear brake entering the rut/turn to keep the rear wheel down over the huge braking bumps, and square edged stuff that developes at the entrance into a rut.
i havn't noticed to much dragging the rear through the rut til the apex but like you said everyone has different styles
Yea, what this guy said. If you're going to drag the rear brake at all, you want to do it going into the corner, not going through it. It'll help load the suspension a bit more and usually helps with the entrance to the rut as well.You also have the added benefit of not getting kicked all over the place if you do it right. A good tip for setting up for a rut, is as soon as your off the brakes and sitting down, you should already be rolling the throttle back on and be off the brake completely.
MarkF
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MarkF 12/8/2015 8:37am
12/8/2015 8:37am
I find that focusing on the exit of the rut works best for me. It takes a lot of practice to feel comfortable doing this though.

I think dragging the rear brake is more of a personal riding style thing. However, if you have both brakes on hard at the same time, it will take away from the suspension. Stand beside your bike (on the ground) and push hard on your rear brake and pull in your front brake at the same time. Then while your doing this, try to push down on the seat. You will find that the suspension will not move.
Micahdogg
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Micahdogg 12/8/2015 8:49am
12/8/2015 8:49am Edited Date/Time 12/8/2015 8:51am
I know very little about ruts, but I do know to NEVER look at your front wheel because it will cross you up all the time. Look where you want to go and you'll be able to stay in the rut. Works like a charm.

Probably good to remember if we are talking two strokes vs. four. I could see the point-n-shoot method working better for thumpers.
roundtheoutside 12/8/2015 8:58am
12/8/2015 8:58am
Trav138 wrote:
i think alot of what you said is they drag the rear brake entering the rut/turn to keep the rear wheel down over the huge braking...
i think alot of what you said is they drag the rear brake entering the rut/turn to keep the rear wheel down over the huge braking bumps, and square edged stuff that developes at the entrance into a rut.
i havn't noticed to much dragging the rear through the rut til the apex but like you said everyone has different styles
JaredPartridge wrote:
Yea, what this guy said. If you're going to drag the rear brake at all, you want to do it going into the corner, not going...
Yea, what this guy said. If you're going to drag the rear brake at all, you want to do it going into the corner, not going through it. It'll help load the suspension a bit more and usually helps with the entrance to the rut as well.You also have the added benefit of not getting kicked all over the place if you do it right. A good tip for setting up for a rut, is as soon as your off the brakes and sitting down, you should already be rolling the throttle back on and be off the brake completely.
That's probably the best feeling you can have on a dirt bike, when it's all fluent and smooth. Entering the rut in a left hander, hitting the throttle while you're getting off the rearbrake and railing it effortless.

Regarding the OP, I'm wondering where you sit when you tap the rear brake while having your foot still on the peg
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Phillip_Lamb 12/8/2015 11:01am
12/8/2015 11:01am
419250f wrote:
If you watch the Nationals on your DVR in slow-mo, you will see almost 100% of the riders dragging their rear brake in ruts until the...
If you watch the Nationals on your DVR in slow-mo, you will see almost 100% of the riders dragging
their rear brake in ruts until the apex. Same with the front brake.
Gary S. teaches this method as well.
Doug. D. would disagree with this.
Like someone else said, everyone has their own style/methods.
Gringoe wrote:
100%? Really? While leaned In ruts? Learn something from you folk everyday Dragging rear brake in a real rut while trying to turn is basically the...
100%? Really? While leaned In ruts?

Learn something from you folk everyday

Dragging rear brake in a real rut while trying to turn is basically the Anti-Christ of what you want to do
this has to do with two different theories of braking and entering turns. the first is really more american style of either being on the gas or on the brakes. basically brake late gas early.

the other technique dubach is talking about is something tortelli was good at and tended to be more euro style. finish braking and leave enough momentum to coast into turn then get on the gas. the idea is to not use so much brake and focus on leaning over the bike more.

both styles work and are more a result of the tracks in each region. to me more american tracks had a bit tighter turn and loamier dirt which played to a 'point and shoot' style and allowed for powering through corners and from what i have seen, euro tracks have a bit more sweeping turns and the dirt is harder packed and the only way to hold momentum is to coast through it as applying power would put you on the ground
elfrago
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elfrago 12/8/2015 4:05pm
12/8/2015 4:05pm
ridinbeast932 wrote:
Anyone have any tips for breaking the habit of dragging the rear brake through the turn? I was at a camp last wk where I realized...
Anyone have any tips for breaking the habit of dragging the rear brake through the turn? I was at a camp last wk where I realized that's holding me back. I have no consistency between left/right turns because I'm tentative to get my right foot off the brake in right handers.
Try getting on the balls of your feet, it takes a while to get used to but will help you push harder on the outside peg and you won't be able to reach the rear brake Wink
fisher725
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fisher725 12/8/2015 4:42pm
12/8/2015 4:42pm
But does this help with railing ruts and nailing sluts??
brimx153
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brimx153 12/8/2015 5:15pm
12/8/2015 5:15pm
419250f wrote:
If you watch the Nationals on your DVR in slow-mo, you will see almost 100% of the riders dragging their rear brake in ruts until the...
If you watch the Nationals on your DVR in slow-mo, you will see almost 100% of the riders dragging
their rear brake in ruts until the apex. Same with the front brake.
Gary S. teaches this method as well.
Doug. D. would disagree with this.
Like someone else said, everyone has their own style/methods.
sorry thats complete bull . no pro does this . the G S tech is to go from braking to gas . never coasting .that means they are standing braking and in one motion sit down leg out gas . there is no dragging the rare brake . its just braking ,big difference . dragging mean s on the gas a little bit as well as the brake. eg like you do with the front in the rut . dougs tech is to let go of both brakes and coast into and around the apex . maybe you are talking about dragging the brake over braking bumps , but that tottally different than a rut .
brimx153
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brimx153 12/8/2015 5:24pm
12/8/2015 5:24pm
419250f wrote:
If you watch the Nationals on your DVR in slow-mo, you will see almost 100% of the riders dragging their rear brake in ruts until the...
If you watch the Nationals on your DVR in slow-mo, you will see almost 100% of the riders dragging
their rear brake in ruts until the apex. Same with the front brake.
Gary S. teaches this method as well.
Doug. D. would disagree with this.
Like someone else said, everyone has their own style/methods.
Gringoe wrote:
100%? Really? While leaned In ruts? Learn something from you folk everyday Dragging rear brake in a real rut while trying to turn is basically the...
100%? Really? While leaned In ruts?

Learn something from you folk everyday

Dragging rear brake in a real rut while trying to turn is basically the Anti-Christ of what you want to do
Phillip_Lamb wrote:
this has to do with two different theories of braking and entering turns. the first is really more american style of either being on the gas...
this has to do with two different theories of braking and entering turns. the first is really more american style of either being on the gas or on the brakes. basically brake late gas early.

the other technique dubach is talking about is something tortelli was good at and tended to be more euro style. finish braking and leave enough momentum to coast into turn then get on the gas. the idea is to not use so much brake and focus on leaning over the bike more.

both styles work and are more a result of the tracks in each region. to me more american tracks had a bit tighter turn and loamier dirt which played to a 'point and shoot' style and allowed for powering through corners and from what i have seen, euro tracks have a bit more sweeping turns and the dirt is harder packed and the only way to hold momentum is to coast through it as applying power would put you on the ground
i agree with everything phillip says except , our (euro) tracks are way way tighter and smaller than the US tracks . to me the US tracks are so much faster big flowing wide turns everywhere . only our sand tracks have that. but i think you are spot on about the the different tech ,and i think if you look at the euro riders in the US they do the more DOUG tech . but having said that one of the best at it is dungey.

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