Roczen not looking so good

SwingHard
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SwingHard 7/28/2019 9:17pm
7/28/2019 9:17pm
nytsmaC wrote:
In all fairness who knows if AC or Ferrandis could have ridden a 450 that hard all the way to the checkers either. Roczen wasn’t as...
In all fairness who knows if AC or Ferrandis could have ridden a 450 that hard all the way to the checkers either.

Roczen wasn’t as strong as Tomac but he beat everyone else. I don’t see any threads about what’s wrong with Alpha Dog, Musquin or Anderson, so not really sure why Roczen deserved one about him.
ATKpilot99 wrote:
More is expected of Roczen than those guys.
ATKpilot are you referring to the fans or the decision makers at KTM & HUSKY?
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Bnagazina 7/28/2019 9:30pm
7/28/2019 9:30pm Edited Date/Time 7/29/2019 8:17pm
I thought at the time, racing would be beneficial to Ken over the outdoors, but I have to take my hat off the Gary Semics for stating that Ken should have shut it down for the year. Don’t know if it is temporary issues such as arm pump or fitness or permanent restrictions that are holding Kenny from winning, but he should shut it down for the rest of the year. Focus on recovery.
Nesc39
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Nesc39 7/28/2019 9:43pm
7/28/2019 9:43pm
So sick of hearing about Kenny’s injury’s. He has personally said his arms are not holding him back. I’m also sick of hearing about the antibiotics, give me a break! your not getting tired in August because you took penicillin for 2nweeks in January. I feel like I’m on carbabaro effect. It destroys your gut bacteria for 2 weeks not 2 years. Just curious but if he claimed a mystery illness in supercross are you guys down with that? I’m just wondering how long before everyone was like 🤔.

I’m looking forward to the off season so guys “can build a base for 6months, then show up at Anaheim and say the bike is off(after they just tested it daily for 4 months) and then make changes through September and repeat the process again.

Except for Anderson. He can come off the couch and run top3 no problem. No base, 1month of testing and I don’t even like Him. Roczen is my guy but im tired of the excuses
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Drop-Bear
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Drop-Bear 7/29/2019 2:09am
7/29/2019 2:09am
2nd is the 1st loser. Makes no sense to give them a trophy IMO either .

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Park Boys
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Park Boys 7/29/2019 4:02am
7/29/2019 4:02am
tingo wrote:
There were threads during the SX season talking about how defeated Marvin looked and sounded during his post-race interviews. This is the first weekend that I’ve...
There were threads during the SX season talking about how defeated Marvin looked and sounded during his post-race interviews. This is the first weekend that I’ve noticed the same for Ken. His confidence is gone, which is sad to see. Just an observation. much yw
nytsmaC wrote:
He just beat everyone except Tomac, who was on fire. If something’s wrong with Ken, what’s wrong with everyone else?
Everyone else is not Roczen, he has shown that when healthy the other guys sans Tomac for lack of a better term are speed bumps to him and sometimes not even that. Roczen and Tomac for better or worse have earned the right to be judged differently. That’s what happens when you beat Dungey as a rookie. It’s frustating as a fan to watch him not be able to keep it up. I can’t imgine what’s going through his head. The fastest laps of the day were Kenny’s first motos sprint laps and by the end he is 5 plus seconds off.
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Timo_2824
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Timo_2824 7/29/2019 4:15am
7/29/2019 4:15am



Eli just has a better strategy of running a slightly slower pace the entire Moto vs sprinting at the beginning. If supercross races were 30 minutes Eli would have multiple championships by now. I think he would kill it off-road in multiple hour races.


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FerCzD
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FerCzD 7/29/2019 5:06am
7/29/2019 5:06am Edited Date/Time 7/29/2019 5:15am
tingo wrote:
There were threads during the SX season talking about how defeated Marvin looked and sounded during his post-race interviews. This is the first weekend that I’ve...
There were threads during the SX season talking about how defeated Marvin looked and sounded during his post-race interviews. This is the first weekend that I’ve noticed the same for Ken. His confidence is gone, which is sad to see. Just an observation. much yw
nytsmaC wrote:
He just beat everyone except Tomac, who was on fire. If something’s wrong with Ken, what’s wrong with everyone else?
Park Boys wrote:
Everyone else is not Roczen, he has shown that when healthy the other guys sans Tomac for lack of a better term are speed bumps to...
Everyone else is not Roczen, he has shown that when healthy the other guys sans Tomac for lack of a better term are speed bumps to him and sometimes not even that. Roczen and Tomac for better or worse have earned the right to be judged differently. That’s what happens when you beat Dungey as a rookie. It’s frustating as a fan to watch him not be able to keep it up. I can’t imgine what’s going through his head. The fastest laps of the day were Kenny’s first motos sprint laps and by the end he is 5 plus seconds off.
Eli ran 2:15.420 on qualifying session number 2. So the fastest man on this day was him. And his scores 1-1 back that statement up.

Roczen doesn't have a mistery illness, Tomac was the better rider on this given weekend. The faster Ken accepts that he is not entitled to be considered the rider that has to win every moto, his frustration will be less.
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agn5009
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agn5009 7/29/2019 5:09am
7/29/2019 5:09am
Bnagazina wrote:
I thought at the time, racing would be beneficial to Ken over the outdoors, but I have to take my hat off the Gary Semics for...
I thought at the time, racing would be beneficial to Ken over the outdoors, but I have to take my hat off the Gary Semics for stating that Ken should have shut it down for the year. Don’t know if it is temporary issues such as arm pump or fitness or permanent restrictions that are holding Kenny from winning, but he should shut it down for the rest of the year. Focus on recovery.
Hes literally an injury away from the title. Why the hell would he shut it down? If Tomac gets hurt it could be a dog fight between Musquin and Roczen for the title. Wtf?
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Park Boys
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Park Boys 7/29/2019 5:17am
7/29/2019 5:17am
nytsmaC wrote:
He just beat everyone except Tomac, who was on fire. If something’s wrong with Ken, what’s wrong with everyone else?
Park Boys wrote:
Everyone else is not Roczen, he has shown that when healthy the other guys sans Tomac for lack of a better term are speed bumps to...
Everyone else is not Roczen, he has shown that when healthy the other guys sans Tomac for lack of a better term are speed bumps to him and sometimes not even that. Roczen and Tomac for better or worse have earned the right to be judged differently. That’s what happens when you beat Dungey as a rookie. It’s frustating as a fan to watch him not be able to keep it up. I can’t imgine what’s going through his head. The fastest laps of the day were Kenny’s first motos sprint laps and by the end he is 5 plus seconds off.
FerCzD wrote:
Eli ran 2:15.420 on qualifying session number 2. So the fastest man on this day was him. And his scores 1-1 back that statement up. Roczen...
Eli ran 2:15.420 on qualifying session number 2. So the fastest man on this day was him. And his scores 1-1 back that statement up.

Roczen doesn't have a mistery illness, Tomac was the better rider on this given weekend. The faster Ken accepts that he is not entitled to be considered the rider that has to win every moto, his frustration will be less.
You’re point? Not saying it’s a given that Roczen beats Tomac when healthy. Point is he was way off by the end right now. We have seen him enough times to know he can manage the pace better than that. Practice? You talking about practice? Both Kenny and Tomac have won plenty of races without having the fastest practice time. I should have said fastest times of the races though.
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FerCzD 7/29/2019 5:28am
7/29/2019 5:28am Edited Date/Time 7/29/2019 5:29am
Park Boys wrote:
You’re point? Not saying it’s a given that Roczen beats Tomac when healthy. Point is he was way off by the end right now. We have...
You’re point? Not saying it’s a given that Roczen beats Tomac when healthy. Point is he was way off by the end right now. We have seen him enough times to know he can manage the pace better than that. Practice? You talking about practice? Both Kenny and Tomac have won plenty of races without having the fastest practice time. I should have said fastest times of the races though.
Then again, we can argue about Kenny being on the front with a clear track while Tomac was coming from behind. And history shows Roczen losing in same fashion prior Lime-gate, and arm injuries (in his 250 days).

My point is that Tomac 1-1 is the ultimate factor deciding he was the best rider at Washougal, and people putting an asterisk mark on every win by Eli because Ken is "I'll". As many have said before: next year will be very telling for Ken!
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Park Boys 7/29/2019 5:41am
7/29/2019 5:41am
Park Boys wrote:
You’re point? Not saying it’s a given that Roczen beats Tomac when healthy. Point is he was way off by the end right now. We have...
You’re point? Not saying it’s a given that Roczen beats Tomac when healthy. Point is he was way off by the end right now. We have seen him enough times to know he can manage the pace better than that. Practice? You talking about practice? Both Kenny and Tomac have won plenty of races without having the fastest practice time. I should have said fastest times of the races though.
FerCzD wrote:
Then again, we can argue about Kenny being on the front with a clear track while Tomac was coming from behind. And history shows Roczen losing...
Then again, we can argue about Kenny being on the front with a clear track while Tomac was coming from behind. And history shows Roczen losing in same fashion prior Lime-gate, and arm injuries (in his 250 days).

My point is that Tomac 1-1 is the ultimate factor deciding he was the best rider at Washougal, and people putting an asterisk mark on every win by Eli because Ken is "I'll". As many have said before: next year will be very telling for Ken!
I agree he faded in his 250 days and he even faded in his first 450 title year in the second half of the season but he was also young. He finally figured it out in 16, finally being he was only 22. It is what it is. Kenny and Tomac when healthy should only lose to each other at least outdoors. I think the so called asterisks are because the other guys when push comes to shove are way off of Tomac’s top speed and Roczen is not. Just natural bench racing. Next year is telling, Kenny still is not up too pre-injury race pace at least for the whole moto. If it’s not back next year I don’t think it ever will come all the way back.
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gt80rider
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gt80rider 7/29/2019 8:04am
7/29/2019 8:04am
While it seems so many people "forget" about those arms of his (except for the tv crew that still have to show those f'n crashes every time they mention Ken's name... WTF???).......... can you image how hard it must be for him to hold a factory Honda 450 (which are looking GNARLY this year) WFO up and down the hills in Washington for 35 minutes???? ..... SX is short enough it isn't such a big dealio for him..... but outdoors, it is gonna take some more time for those arms to catch back up, IF they ever can......
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agn5009
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agn5009 7/29/2019 8:13am
7/29/2019 8:13am
I’ll just say it- Maybe Tomac is just better than Roczen? He handled him on 250s and is on his way to his 3rd straight 450 MX title. Part of being great in this sport is limiting your injuries. Everyone always looks for reasons or excuses when a guy loses. Maybe the guy beating him is just better? Especially since it’s happened more often than not since their 250 days together.
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OldPro277
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OldPro277 7/29/2019 8:31am
7/29/2019 8:31am
agn5009 wrote:
I’ll just say it- Maybe Tomac is just better than Roczen? He handled him on 250s and is on his way to his 3rd straight 450...
I’ll just say it- Maybe Tomac is just better than Roczen? He handled him on 250s and is on his way to his 3rd straight 450 MX title. Part of being great in this sport is limiting your injuries. Everyone always looks for reasons or excuses when a guy loses. Maybe the guy beating him is just better? Especially since it’s happened more often than not since their 250 days together.
Absolutely spot on. Also, as crazy fast as Eli looks when he's on, I still don't think he's to the level he was prior to the shoulder injury. The first couple races that year were insane.
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Cole_Ughetti 7/29/2019 8:51am
7/29/2019 8:51am
I think fitness is an issue for roczen, but after a full year injury free under his belt I think the supercross season will get interesting after an efficient off season.
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yak651 7/29/2019 8:51am
7/29/2019 8:51am
Timo_2824 wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2019/07/29/363217/s1200_Screenshot_20190729_060552.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2019/07/29/363219/s1200_Screenshot_20190729_060609.jpg[/img] Eli just has a better strategy of running a slightly slower pace the entire Moto vs sprinting at the beginning. If supercross races were...



Eli just has a better strategy of running a slightly slower pace the entire Moto vs sprinting at the beginning. If supercross races were 30 minutes Eli would have multiple championships by now. I think he would kill it off-road in multiple hour races.


Maybe Ken needs to pace himself so he doesn't blow up at the end instead of sprinting away the first 3 laps? If he rode the 2:19 pace all race would've he held on until the end? Is sprinting away at the start his way to show he still has the speed even if he knows he can't maintain it? Is this the only way that he thinks he can beat Eli is to build a big enough "buffer" that Eli can't close it within 30 minutes? I know none of the MX reporters will ask these questions but would be interesting to hear his thoughts.
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VetRider97
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VetRider97 7/29/2019 8:52am
7/29/2019 8:52am
tingo wrote:
There were threads during the SX season talking about how defeated Marvin looked and sounded during his post-race interviews. This is the first weekend that I’ve...
There were threads during the SX season talking about how defeated Marvin looked and sounded during his post-race interviews. This is the first weekend that I’ve noticed the same for Ken. His confidence is gone, which is sad to see. Just an observation. much yw
He's a ex champ, I would guess in his mind anything less than winning championship is not meeting his goal and it's human nature he's not going to project the same level of energy.

As far as his up and down riding and late moto fade, it can take years for someone to heal physically and mentally from these types of injuries especially at this level.

He has made unbelievable comeback to date, we are all lucky to see him competing at his current level... if he can make the next step we are in for something special.

I for one support him all the way and look forward to seeing him compete..

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crusty_xx
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crusty_xx 7/29/2019 9:20am
7/29/2019 9:20am
FerCzD wrote:
Then again, we can argue about Kenny being on the front with a clear track while Tomac was coming from behind. And history shows Roczen losing...
Then again, we can argue about Kenny being on the front with a clear track while Tomac was coming from behind. And history shows Roczen losing in same fashion prior Lime-gate, and arm injuries (in his 250 days).

My point is that Tomac 1-1 is the ultimate factor deciding he was the best rider at Washougal, and people putting an asterisk mark on every win by Eli because Ken is "I'll". As many have said before: next year will be very telling for Ken!
Who says Tomac wasn't the best rider at Washougal? He obviously was.

If Roczen has always faded that badly then why does he have as many professional titles as Tomac although he's 2 years younger? Not counting German national titles and MXdN titles.

These are his times from Southwick moto 2
I mean you can't just blame this on a mental problem... Especially not after he had won several motos and overalls this year. He was almost 20 (!) seconds off the pace at the end of the moto and got passed by guys like John Short.
A mental problem doesn't strike suddenly after 2-3 laps after you came from 7th to 2nd in two laps.

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GuyB
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GuyB 7/29/2019 9:28am
7/29/2019 9:28am
Normally I’d clip the political reference just for the sake of keeping things clean, but the response from TT...so good.
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GuyB 7/29/2019 9:33am
7/29/2019 9:33am
crusty_xx wrote:
Who says Tomac wasn't the best rider at Washougal? He obviously was. If Roczen has always faded that badly then why does he have as many...
Who says Tomac wasn't the best rider at Washougal? He obviously was.

If Roczen has always faded that badly then why does he have as many professional titles as Tomac although he's 2 years younger? Not counting German national titles and MXdN titles.

These are his times from Southwick moto 2
I mean you can't just blame this on a mental problem... Especially not after he had won several motos and overalls this year. He was almost 20 (!) seconds off the pace at the end of the moto and got passed by guys like John Short.
A mental problem doesn't strike suddenly after 2-3 laps after you came from 7th to 2nd in two laps.

Remember, Southwick was the week after WW Ranch, which I think cooked more than a few guys (Ken being one of them). I give him credit for being out there and competing.

Ken’s a gamer, but I’m guessing there’s also a smidge of extra pressure to hang in there because with Seely and Tomita on the sidelines, he’s the lone rider there.
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nytsmaC
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nytsmaC 7/29/2019 9:55am
7/29/2019 9:55am
Bnagazina wrote:
I thought at the time, racing would be beneficial to Ken over the outdoors, but I have to take my hat off the Gary Semics for...
I thought at the time, racing would be beneficial to Ken over the outdoors, but I have to take my hat off the Gary Semics for stating that Ken should have shut it down for the year. Don’t know if it is temporary issues such as arm pump or fitness or permanent restrictions that are holding Kenny from winning, but he should shut it down for the rest of the year. Focus on recovery.
agn5009 wrote:
Hes literally an injury away from the title. Why the hell would he shut it down? If Tomac gets hurt it could be a dog fight...
Hes literally an injury away from the title. Why the hell would he shut it down? If Tomac gets hurt it could be a dog fight between Musquin and Roczen for the title. Wtf?
This one had me scratching my head too. I hope he was joking.
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mattseaton90 7/29/2019 10:08am
7/29/2019 10:08am
I wouldn’t be surprised at all to find out that Kenny’s as yet undisclosed issue is anxiety. It has all the hallmarks of it, and his recent injuries are the likely cause.
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kpiper
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kpiper 7/29/2019 2:56pm
7/29/2019 2:56pm Edited Date/Time 7/29/2019 2:57pm
1) Ken is not 'fading'. He simply can't ride the speed he goes the first few laps for an entire race. But he keeps it pretty close!

2) If you ever raced you know many people who take off super fast and then have to slow down. No one can ride sprint speed for 35 minutes. Hannah used to say he was never the fastest guy. He just wore them out.

3) When Tomac has a track he can pass on he is going to win. Plain and simple and Kenny knows that right now.

4) When a guy gets second in a National (KR94) and then says after the race he can't wait for the season to be over what does that tell you? It tells you he does not even want to be out there. That is mindset.

5) He looked pretty happy at the lake the day after the race. This is the first time in a long time that he has raced over an entire year. He rode all the Nationals last year, then SX and now the Nationals again. He is probably mentally and physically exhausted.
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yz133rider
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yz133rider 7/29/2019 5:02pm
7/29/2019 5:02pm
kpiper wrote:
1) Ken is not 'fading'. He simply can't ride the speed he goes the first few laps for an entire race. But he keeps it pretty...
1) Ken is not 'fading'. He simply can't ride the speed he goes the first few laps for an entire race. But he keeps it pretty close!

2) If you ever raced you know many people who take off super fast and then have to slow down. No one can ride sprint speed for 35 minutes. Hannah used to say he was never the fastest guy. He just wore them out.

3) When Tomac has a track he can pass on he is going to win. Plain and simple and Kenny knows that right now.

4) When a guy gets second in a National (KR94) and then says after the race he can't wait for the season to be over what does that tell you? It tells you he does not even want to be out there. That is mindset.

5) He looked pretty happy at the lake the day after the race. This is the first time in a long time that he has raced over an entire year. He rode all the Nationals last year, then SX and now the Nationals again. He is probably mentally and physically exhausted.
#1 isnt that exactly what fading is?
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KYFHO699
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KYFHO699 7/29/2019 5:25pm
7/29/2019 5:25pm
BobbyM wrote:
Top ten mxers in the world, top 5 sxers in the world and yer dead last I suspect.
Dude, your posts get dumber with age.
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soggy 7/29/2019 5:26pm
7/29/2019 5:26pm
kpiper wrote:
1) Ken is not 'fading'. He simply can't ride the speed he goes the first few laps for an entire race. But he keeps it pretty...
1) Ken is not 'fading'. He simply can't ride the speed he goes the first few laps for an entire race. But he keeps it pretty close!

2) If you ever raced you know many people who take off super fast and then have to slow down. No one can ride sprint speed for 35 minutes. Hannah used to say he was never the fastest guy. He just wore them out.

3) When Tomac has a track he can pass on he is going to win. Plain and simple and Kenny knows that right now.

4) When a guy gets second in a National (KR94) and then says after the race he can't wait for the season to be over what does that tell you? It tells you he does not even want to be out there. That is mindset.

5) He looked pretty happy at the lake the day after the race. This is the first time in a long time that he has raced over an entire year. He rode all the Nationals last year, then SX and now the Nationals again. He is probably mentally and physically exhausted.
he probably can't wait for the season to be over so he can overcome his illness, which is what he said.
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SwingHard
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SwingHard 7/29/2019 5:35pm
7/29/2019 5:35pm
What am I missing? He just took second overall Saturday and gained a few points! Hell,#25 comes in down 38 and leaves down 50 and not peep!
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agn5009 7/29/2019 5:40pm
7/29/2019 5:40pm
SwingHard wrote:
What am I missing? He just took second overall Saturday and gained a few points! Hell,#25 comes in down 38 and leaves down 50 and not...
What am I missing? He just took second overall Saturday and gained a few points! Hell,#25 comes in down 38 and leaves down 50 and not peep!
Exactly. Marvin was a preseason title contender as well. Marvin is similar to Ken, looks fantastic one week and not so great the next. Where’s all the conversation about Marvin and what his issues are?

Eli is the only guy out there who really hasn’t had a horrible race yet.
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Bnagazina 7/29/2019 8:13pm
7/29/2019 8:13pm
Bnagazina wrote:
I thought at the time, racing would be beneficial to Ken over the outdoors, but I have to take my hat off the Gary Semics for...
I thought at the time, racing would be beneficial to Ken over the outdoors, but I have to take my hat off the Gary Semics for stating that Ken should have shut it down for the year. Don’t know if it is temporary issues such as arm pump or fitness or permanent restrictions that are holding Kenny from winning, but he should shut it down for the rest of the year. Focus on recovery.
agn5009 wrote:
Hes literally an injury away from the title. Why the hell would he shut it down? If Tomac gets hurt it could be a dog fight...
Hes literally an injury away from the title. Why the hell would he shut it down? If Tomac gets hurt it could be a dog fight between Musquin and Roczen for the title. Wtf?
He is also an injury away from retirement. If he is not in top physical health, the risk of an injury increases. Eli’s been injured one time that was fixed with normal surgery and has full range of motion. I think Ken is still affected by his injury and has changed his riding style to accommodate. 3 rounds left, Eli has huge point lead and he isn’t likely to have a major crash.
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