Riders not performing outdoors

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6/10/2008 7:24 AM

Honestly I hope I am wrong on this but something is going on.
I continually see talented riders putting in lackluster performances but it only appears they have these issues in the outdoor series.
I would give them the benefit of not being good outdoor riders, but most have been Champions during their amateur years, so the excuse of not riding well outdoors really doesn't cut it.
Again I hope this is not the case but it sure looks like they are looking to only compete in Supercross and if they do not ride to their potential outdoors their teams/sponsors will let them have their way.
If this is even partially correct, it is a sad day in our sport where a rider, who is just coming up, can still get a ride for SX when he does not give 100% to both series. I am sure his contractual obligations have him riding both.
Things will probably not change, as they have been the same for some time but even though these riders are talented, a performance clause relating to these issues may help them understand exactly what their job is.
Supercross AND Nationals.
Alan

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[b]Alan Gerkey

6/10/2008 8:58 AM

somebody said something similar in another thread (think it was whknuckle talking about the business end).

We'll see how it goes, but the money is going to SX and I don't see that changing.

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6/10/2008 9:21 AM

The majority of riders don't give a damn about the outdoors. They hate them and they would rather not race them. So the motivation is not there. The corporate sponsors of the riders and their $$$ and contractual antics are causing this. SX, SX, SX is all that matters apparently. And the riders know this. And the OEM's don't have a leg to stand on really, it's a shame. The corporate sponsors and the rider's agents and the riders have control. And it is out of control.

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6/10/2008 9:51 AM

I am slowly losing interest in AMA motocross for this very reason. They have the arguably the best riders in the world, but only half of them come with their race face when the outdoors starts. All the talent in the world doesn't amount to a hill of beans if the racing isn't any good. If I could only follow one series over the summer I would choose the GPs or Canadian MX over the AMA every time.

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4 stroke de-evolution! With the right handicap even I could beat Tiger Woods.

6/10/2008 10:20 AM

I agree Alan. The effort is just not there. I had a rider I was working with that finished 29th OA. It was his first Nat'l he qualified for and he didn't even know he finished in that OA position. I talked to him after the 1st moto and told him to keep going until you see the checkered flag since alot of the riders were fading fast. Rule of thumb: 'Never stop pushing until you see the checkered flag!!!'

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6/10/2008 10:57 AM

What's going on with Reardon? I thought he would shine outdoors. Injury?

The NPG or whoever needs to get some big time sponsor $$$ into the series.

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6/10/2008 11:13 AM

Yah, it's crazy. MX is the core of the sport.
SX makes them feel like rockstars, and everybody is a rockstar nowadays.

Even Stewart says "you will never see Pam Anderson at an outdoor national."

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6/10/2008 11:48 AM
Edited Date/Time: 4/16/2016 7:14 PM

So Allen

Would you say being drunk 2 nights in a row ,rolling rental cars and public indecency shows a lack of dedication ?

What ticks me off is the Mechanics,Teams & Sponsors all take it serious and lay out some pretty damm good money & effort for services that are not being rendered.

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6/10/2008 12:12 PM

500guy wrote:

So Allen

Would you say being drunk 2 nights in a row ,rolling rental cars and public indecency shows a lack of dedication ?

What ticks me off is the Mechanics,Teams & Sponsors all take it serious and lay out some pretty damm good money & effort for services that are not being rendered.

Maybe it's time to put the money where the effort is eh??

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6/10/2008 12:16 PM

Obviously it revolves around money but thats what I don't understand from a marketing standpoint. Yea, sx promoters can make $$$ for having a good show, but it seems like the core companies in the industry would want to focus on outdoors. Take a look at the spectators at each. The majority of sx fans are buying hot dogs and fan merchandise where the majority of mx fans are buying bikes, gear, parts, etc. I know sx goes 60-70k and mx goes 10-12k in spectators but what % of sx fans vs. mx fans actually buy industry related products?

Bottom line in my opinion: What makes the glitter and glam of the supercross series are the crusty guys standing on the fence of a national that spend thousands of dollars a year on bikes, brakes, chains, boots, etc. Not some family of four that have nothing better to do on a saturday night.

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6/10/2008 2:09 PM

500:
first I want to be very clear that my post was not about the incident you quoted.
I do agree with the effort of others involved in a riders program, as I happen to be one of those.
I have said before that it should be mandatory that every rider spend a full week with his mechanic in the shop, the track and the truck. After spending close to 60 houirs a week with the mechanic framing, building the motors etc. etc. etc., they may have a little more appreciation for what goes into their 'ride'.

I'm sure that I am not the only one seeing these riders NOT give it their best or even 90%. Until the teams start to demand that they get what they pay for, this type of attitude will continue.
Our sport is usually very slow to stand up and make changes but it appears that a rider in demand can make changes pretty fast, not always for the good.
I don't have all the answers, there are much smarter individuals who should be able to come up with something before we ruin what is in place.
I see no reason that a team should not demand that a rider "do his job" when that is what he is being paid for.
When you look at riders like RC, Bubba, RV, RD, Stroupe, Metcalf, Weimer, Short, IT, etc. etc. (you know who is trying) it is sad to watch these new kids not even care that they look terrible not giving it their best.
Sorry for the rambling, but this is a hard pill for me to get down.
Alan

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[b]Alan Gerkey

6/10/2008 2:11 PM

MXTRAINER1 wrote:

500:
first I want to be very clear that my post was not about the incident you quoted.
I do agree with the effort of others involved in a riders program, as I happen to be one of those.
I have said before that it should be mandatory that every rider spend a full week with his mechanic in the shop, the track and the truck. After spending close to 60 houirs a week with the mechanic framing, building the motors etc. etc. etc., they may have a little more appreciation for what goes into their 'ride'.

I'm sure that I am not the only one seeing these riders NOT give it their best or even 90%. Until the teams start to demand that they get what they pay for, this type of attitude will continue.
Our sport is usually very slow to stand up and make changes but it appears that a rider in demand can make changes pretty fast, not always for the good.
I don't have all the answers, there are much smarter individuals who should be able to come up with something before we ruin what is in place.
I see no reason that a team should not demand that a rider "do his job" when that is what he is being paid for.
When you look at riders like RC, Bubba, RV, RD, Stroupe, Metcalf, Weimer, Short, IT, etc. etc. (you know who is trying) it is sad to watch these new kids not even care that they look terrible not giving it their best.
Sorry for the rambling, but this is a hard pill for me to get down.
Alan

+1

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6/10/2008 2:18 PM

Just speaking from the Freestone national, it was easy to see who came to race: Stewart, Alessi, Ferry, Short, Hamblin, Cooper in the 450 class; Stroupe, Villopoto, Metcalf, Dungey, Weimer in the 250F class. There were other guys performing above expectation farther back, like Robbie Reynard and Broc Tickle; and I don't think I ever saw anyone work as hard at Canard did while riding with a concussion in the first moto. But frankly, most of the other guys were dialing it back after about lap 5. That might not be a bad idea under the circumstances, and for a privateer, it makes sense; but for a high-profile, well-paid factory rider, it's gotta be pretty disappointing to a sponsor.

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6/10/2008 2:49 PM

Let me also say that I am not discounting the privateers who work their butts off but may not have attained the skills or speed to run up front yet.
Alan

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[b]Alan Gerkey

6/10/2008 3:57 PM

I know some of the GP guys get paid a lot of money but only if they perform and are putting in the effort on the track if not the money don't come there way. Maybe something that would make the AMA guys get there fingers out.

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6/10/2008 5:26 PM
Edited Date/Time: 6/10/2008 5:26 PM

WhKnuckle wrote:

Just speaking from the Freestone national, it was easy to see who came to race: Stewart, Alessi, Ferry, Short, Hamblin, Cooper in the 450 class; Stroupe, Villopoto, Metcalf, Dungey, Weimer in the 250F class. There were other guys performing above expectation farther back, like Robbie Reynard and Broc Tickle; and I don't think I ever saw anyone work as hard at Canard did while riding with a concussion in the first moto. But frankly, most of the other guys were dialing it back after about lap 5. That might not be a bad idea under the circumstances, and for a privateer, it makes sense; but for a high-profile, well-paid factory rider, it's gotta be pretty disappointing to a sponsor.

Uh i must say, Bobby Kiniry( local guy), in the first moto gave a hell of a run to the factory guys. (he was on a privateer honda) . so i think he should be in there for that "performing above expectations" column

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6/10/2008 5:27 PM

WhKnuckle wrote:

Just speaking from the Freestone national, it was easy to see who came to race: Stewart, Alessi, Ferry, Short, Hamblin, Cooper in the 450 class; Stroupe, Villopoto, Metcalf, Dungey, Weimer in the 250F class. There were other guys performing above expectation farther back, like Robbie Reynard and Broc Tickle; and I don't think I ever saw anyone work as hard at Canard did while riding with a concussion in the first moto. But frankly, most of the other guys were dialing it back after about lap 5. That might not be a bad idea under the circumstances, and for a privateer, it makes sense; but for a high-profile, well-paid factory rider, it's gotta be pretty disappointing to a sponsor.

Kawi180 wrote:

Uh i must say, Bobby Kiniry( local guy), in the first moto gave a hell of a run to the factory guys. (he was on a privateer honda) . so i think he should be in there for that "performing above expectations" column

True. Kiniry looked really strong.

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6/10/2008 5:28 PM

WhKnuckle wrote:

Just speaking from the Freestone national, it was easy to see who came to race: Stewart, Alessi, Ferry, Short, Hamblin, Cooper in the 450 class; Stroupe, Villopoto, Metcalf, Dungey, Weimer in the 250F class. There were other guys performing above expectation farther back, like Robbie Reynard and Broc Tickle; and I don't think I ever saw anyone work as hard at Canard did while riding with a concussion in the first moto. But frankly, most of the other guys were dialing it back after about lap 5. That might not be a bad idea under the circumstances, and for a privateer, it makes sense; but for a high-profile, well-paid factory rider, it's gotta be pretty disappointing to a sponsor.

Kawi180 wrote:

Uh i must say, Bobby Kiniry( local guy), in the first moto gave a hell of a run to the factory guys. (he was on a privateer honda) . so i think he should be in there for that "performing above expectations" column

kiniry was killin it BUT he kept skipping a whole whoop section at least 2 of every 3 laps....until the ama guy came over and stood right there. i was like ok hes busted.

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6/10/2008 5:32 PM

hahahah yeah i seen that he was supposed to be in 7th but they docted him one position because he did that. ahhh oh well. i woulda said "the fucking rut kicked me over every damn time "

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6/10/2008 5:48 PM

Kawi180 wrote:

hahahah yeah i seen that he was supposed to be in 7th but they docted him one position because he did that. ahhh oh well. i woulda said "the fucking rut kicked me over every damn time "

from what I hear, thats pretty close to what he may have said.....LOL

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6/10/2008 5:58 PM

Outdoors is where it's at. Supercross is for the metro sexual guy and motocross is where you find the real men.

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6/10/2008 6:10 PM

have any of you raced a sx or mx national ?
15 min or 7 laps at a national takes way more out of you than 20 min on a sx track
most of these guys have to pace a little or die at the end. who can all out sprint for 35 min. twice ?

most of you have no idea what its like to race one of these tracks at that level.

holy crap "it was easy to see who came to race" I cant belive how stupid some of this thred is

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6/10/2008 6:15 PM

MXTRAINER1 wrote:

500:
first I want to be very clear that my post was not about the incident you quoted.
I do agree with the effort of others involved in a riders program, as I happen to be one of those.
I have said before that it should be mandatory that every rider spend a full week with his mechanic in the shop, the track and the truck. After spending close to 60 houirs a week with the mechanic framing, building the motors etc. etc. etc., they may have a little more appreciation for what goes into their 'ride'.

I'm sure that I am not the only one seeing these riders NOT give it their best or even 90%. Until the teams start to demand that they get what they pay for, this type of attitude will continue.
Our sport is usually very slow to stand up and make changes but it appears that a rider in demand can make changes pretty fast, not always for the good.
I don't have all the answers, there are much smarter individuals who should be able to come up with something before we ruin what is in place.
I see no reason that a team should not demand that a rider "do his job" when that is what he is being paid for.
When you look at riders like RC, Bubba, RV, RD, Stroupe, Metcalf, Weimer, Short, IT, etc. etc. (you know who is trying) it is sad to watch these new kids not even care that they look terrible not giving it their best.
Sorry for the rambling, but this is a hard pill for me to get down.
Alan

and yer lazy ass coulda been an olympic trainer.,..BFD. smile

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6/10/2008 6:17 PM

I always wished my wife would perform outdoors, but that's another topic.

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4 stroke de-evolution! With the right handicap even I could beat Tiger Woods.

6/10/2008 6:24 PM

Here's my thoughts (opinion)

I think there should be a per event clause...
You perform well, you get paid well.
You get last, you walk home !

You win the purse you get a bonus. Win the title, get a big bonus...but to have a salary bigger than you ever dreamed, will make anyone, a little out of control

And it's not just them, it's the circle of friends, they choose to impress. Emig, kind of started it with the party bus. But that's another story.


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Without the following support, my race program would not be worthy:

SERVICE HONDA ~ MTA ~ IMS ~ GPR ~ SPIDER GRIPS ~ GLEN HELEN RACEWAY ~ NO TOIL ~ FLUIDYNE ~ MAXXIS ~ FREEK RACING ~ SCVET ~ SRA ~ ENGINE ICE ~ ACERBIS

6/10/2008 7:00 PM

Bobby,
is it just me or do you always come up with a negative response?
I can never tell if you are being sarcastic or just attacking with a smile.
Let me know how you really feel so I will know how to adjust my comebacks.
Alan

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[b]Alan Gerkey

6/10/2008 7:14 PM

Slow ~ Pro wrote:

Here's my thoughts (opinion)

I think there should be a per event clause...
You perform well, you get paid well.
You get last, you walk home !

You win the purse you get a bonus. Win the title, get a big bonus...but to have a salary bigger than you ever dreamed, will make anyone, a little out of control

And it's not just them, it's the circle of friends, they choose to impress. Emig, kind of started it with the party bus. But that's another story.


I am glad you think if you are the 40th best person in your craft you should walk home, what do you do again ? You the 40th best person in that field in the U.S. ?

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6/10/2008 9:35 PM
Edited Date/Time: 4/16/2016 7:15 PM

Slow ~ Pro wrote:

Here's my thoughts (opinion)

I think there should be a per event clause...
You perform well, you get paid well.
You get last, you walk home !

You win the purse you get a bonus. Win the title, get a big bonus...but to have a salary bigger than you ever dreamed, will make anyone, a little out of control

And it's not just them, it's the circle of friends, they choose to impress. Emig, kind of started it with the party bus. But that's another story.


wpcjs wrote:

I am glad you think if you are the 40th best person in your craft you should walk home, what do you do again ? You the 40th best person in that field in the U.S. ?

Actually, I didn't mean it Literally...did you read it that way ?


And for what it's worth...I have won the number one plate on a couple occasions. Once as a Professional team manager. This year, at this time, I am running second in overall in points, So yeah, I have been the best before, I've also lost several times.


My point is, if they don't have the top results they don't get the same pay.

" IT WAS MY OPINION "


Did anybody else have trouble with my post ?

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Without the following support, my race program would not be worthy:

SERVICE HONDA ~ MTA ~ IMS ~ GPR ~ SPIDER GRIPS ~ GLEN HELEN RACEWAY ~ NO TOIL ~ FLUIDYNE ~ MAXXIS ~ FREEK RACING ~ SCVET ~ SRA ~ ENGINE ICE ~ ACERBIS

6/10/2008 10:23 PM

curmudgeon wrote:

I am slowly losing interest in AMA motocross for this very reason. They have the arguably the best riders in the world, but only half of them come with their race face when the outdoors starts. All the talent in the world doesn't amount to a hill of beans if the racing isn't any good. If I could only follow one series over the summer I would choose the GPs or Canadian MX over the AMA every time.

ditto's from me.....

every year since 1978 i totally couldn't get enough of the nationals..... this year, i could really care less what's going on in the 250's.... i really only care what's going on in the 125 class because at least the top 10 there are riding their nutz off.....

rewatch any national, from let's use 97 as an example.... you've got Fro, Dowd, Albee, The Rock, MC, Bradshaw, Henry and a half dozen others riding like their lives depended on it..... watch last weekends 250 nat, and Bubba is riding at 90%, and guys like Short and TreeSap are putting out less effort than their mechanic does changing a tire.... Alessi looks like he's riding hard..... but that's about it for the "premier" class... if they don't care how hard they ride, don't expect the public to care enough to tune in......

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www.bettercallsaul.com
Die Antwoord

6/10/2008 10:32 PM
Edited Date/Time: 6/10/2008 10:33 PM

Slow ~ Pro wrote:

Here's my thoughts (opinion)

I think there should be a per event clause...
You perform well, you get paid well.
You get last, you walk home !

You win the purse you get a bonus. Win the title, get a big bonus...but to have a salary bigger than you ever dreamed, will make anyone, a little out of control

And it's not just them, it's the circle of friends, they choose to impress. Emig, kind of started it with the party bus. But that's another story.


wpcjs wrote:

I am glad you think if you are the 40th best person in your craft you should walk home, what do you do again ? You the 40th best person in that field in the U.S. ?

Slow ~ Pro wrote:

Actually, I didn't mean it Literally...did you read it that way ?


And for what it's worth...I have won the number one plate on a couple occasions. Once as a Professional team manager. This year, at this time, I am running second in overall in points, So yeah, I have been the best before, I've also lost several times.


My point is, if they don't have the top results they don't get the same pay.

" IT WAS MY OPINION "


Did anybody else have trouble with my post ?

i agree, money is ruining the sport, along with basketball, football and baseball........let their results earn their paychecks

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