Returning Vet Rider - FC350 or TC250?

SonofThor32
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Corryton, TN US
7/27/2022 12:18pm Edited Date/Time 7/29/2022 3:45am
Hey fellas,

So "back in my day" (late 80s, and 90s), I was a mediocre amateur B rider, so not a total slouch. I took a massive hiatus after the last big crash breaking my femur so I stepped away from racing, but have never stopped following the sport, or the local racing scene (I live for this stuff). A little over a year ago, at the ripe age of 48, I decided life would be incomplete without getting back on a bike on a track again (while I can). When trying to decide what bike to get, I knew I didn't want a 125, I spent years wringing them out, and while fun, they are work to go fast. I didn't want a 250f, kind of for the same reasons for not wanting a 125. I am 160lbs, and having not been on a bike in a long time (never had a 4t), I figured a 450 was more than I would ever need, which is why I settled in the middle on a 22 FC350.

Fast forward to a year later and about 15 hours on the bike, I have discovered issues I did not realize I would have so bad. I work out 3-4 days a week which consists of a lot of running, and mild weight lifting, so in decent enough shape with good cardio. However, I knew I had arthritis and possibly carpal tunnel, but had no idea how bad it would be. I know there is surgeries and I may cross that bridge some day, but not now. Anyway, my hands cramp, bad... To the point of after about 5 mins of track pace, my hands are on fire and hurt like hell and I have to pull off until they calm down. No cardio problems, no arm pump, just hands that plain suck. I have dialed the suspension a bit (just a bit), and I am certain I am leaving a lot on the table there, but I am not getting the joy I was expecting.

That said, I am beginning to wonder if I picked the wrong bike, so I am seeking advice from you folks that are also vets, but never stopped riding and have had enough variety to possibly give me some advice please. I am man enough to admit when a bike feels like too much, and although I know exactly how to ride at a race pace, my hands are like restrictor plates and I feel dangerous at a race pace with my current issue. Again, I know there is surgeries, but not wanting that (at this time).. I know a 125 will slow me down, but a 125 would also exasperate my hand issues with the amount of clutch time needed there. I have been looking hard at the '23 TC250 (despite the awful colors) thinking it might be a little easier on me, a powerband I am more mentally used to, possibly just even a little more enjoyable to get me riding even a few more mins before my hands feel like they are on fire, but then again, I may be completely nuts. I would hate to go drop another $11K and be disappointed. I guess my main question here (if you are still reading this novel), would a 350f or a 250 two stroke be better for my situation?

Thanks all!
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Hi Side
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NC US
7/27/2022 12:26pm
IMO, the FC350 is the better choice considering your hand issues. The 2-stroke is going to vibrate more and will be more difficult to control than the relatively mellow 350. Just my opinion for whatever it's worth.
MPJC
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CA
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7/27/2022 12:40pm
The new counterbalanced 2 strokes are pretty smooth so I don't know that vibration would be much of an issue. That said, a 250 2 stroke would also need more clutch. Maybe a 300 if you like the idea of a 2 stroke - ride a gear high and use the torque.
6
yz133rider
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Avondale, PA US
7/27/2022 12:43pm
Fasst flex bars and mako 360 bar mounts.

Also if you ride slowly can you ride longer?

Maybe you’re holding on too tight, pushing too hard, and blowing your arms/hands up.

If you back it down to 60% how long can you ride? Can you ride 60% and work on form and flowing etc.

Your 60% will start to become faster and faster while still being effortless.
3
mxracer666
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NE Iowa, IA US
7/27/2022 1:16pm
I have had carpal tunnel , in both wrist/hands. It got to a point where it was severely affecting all areas of my life - work, bicycling, riding motocross, and dealing with constant high level of pain. (I've now had total knee replacement surgery, and the carpal tunnel was way more painful (prior to surgery), in my case!) Your problem is your carpal tunnel issue and no different bike is going to make it better. Do yourself a huge favor and get the very easy, 11 minute (yes each wrist took just 11 minutes!) surgical FIX! The type I had, they made a tiny 1/2" long cut at the base of my palm. Take the time to recover and get back to work/riding. As an added bonus, I seem to have NO arm pump issues while riding now, even when I first began to ride after surgery.
4

The Shop

kNewc
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7/27/2022 1:24pm Edited Date/Time 7/27/2022 1:25pm
mxracer666 wrote:
I have had carpal tunnel , in both wrist/hands. It got to a point where it was severely affecting all areas of my life - work...
I have had carpal tunnel , in both wrist/hands. It got to a point where it was severely affecting all areas of my life - work, bicycling, riding motocross, and dealing with constant high level of pain. (I've now had total knee replacement surgery, and the carpal tunnel was way more painful (prior to surgery), in my case!) Your problem is your carpal tunnel issue and no different bike is going to make it better. Do yourself a huge favor and get the very easy, 11 minute (yes each wrist took just 11 minutes!) surgical FIX! The type I had, they made a tiny 1/2" long cut at the base of my palm. Take the time to recover and get back to work/riding. As an added bonus, I seem to have NO arm pump issues while riding now, even when I first began to ride after surgery.
My buddy had both of his wrists done this last 5 months and he said he wishes he would have done it sooner. No pain, he can finally grip things. I am starting to get carpal tunnel too, if it ever gets that bad I'm going for surgery for sure. OP Needs to get his health in check.
1
mxracer666
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7/27/2022 1:40pm
Yea, I tried to be the "tough guy" and wait until it got really bad (and I did) Waiting too long can result in some degree of permanent nerve damage. Seriously - the surgery is so minor , now, and it is literally an instant, huge improvement when you wake up from the surgery.
3
SonofThor32
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7/27/2022 2:53pm
yz133rider wrote:
Fasst flex bars and mako 360 bar mounts. Also if you ride slowly can you ride longer? Maybe you’re holding on too tight, pushing too hard...
Fasst flex bars and mako 360 bar mounts.

Also if you ride slowly can you ride longer?

Maybe you’re holding on too tight, pushing too hard, and blowing your arms/hands up.

If you back it down to 60% how long can you ride? Can you ride 60% and work on form and flowing etc.

Your 60% will start to become faster and faster while still being effortless.
I have swapped bars around a little (different grips, different bars/bends). I can ride around (like trail riding which I am not a fan of, I am short), without nearly as much issues. I would think I am way over-gripping or even not breathing right, but my forearms are not at all acting like I have arm pump at all, just the hands going to the toilet.

I am probably set too firm on my suspension as well, but these forks are an enigma.. They are happy to bottom out like you are going to break wrists at what would be the correct pressure for my weight/skill, but as you add pressure, it makes it too harsh in the upper stroke (I know some have this figured out, I clearly do not yet LOL). My plan if I do not switch my bike up, was to take the suspension to a good buddy of mine (TBT) to hopefully work some magic to make it better in that sense too.

Thanks for all of the comments folks, I know the surgeries have been a blessing for many. I wish insurance was how it was in the co-pay days... Sad I am out of pocket I think $7K before insurance kicks in, and for whatever reason, I have developed a massive distain for giving cash to doctors. I probably need to set my issues aside and deal with that, I guess I not there just yet.
mxracer666
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7/27/2022 3:05pm
In my experience, the carpal tunnel syndrome does not feel like arm pump at all. My hands were going numb , but also had pain, if that makes sense, after only 2-3 laps on a MX track. Like nothing i'd ever experienced before...Good luck! The health insurance industry is totally out of control with pricing if you are self-employed, or your employer is not able to offer health insurance. Thanks Obama-care for starting this F'ing mess.
1
Forty
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Saint Paul, MN US
7/27/2022 3:21pm
350
1
erik_94COBRA
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Houston-ish, TX US
7/27/2022 4:20pm
I have a '17 TC250 and a '19 FC350. I think the TC250 might actually vibrate less than the FC350. But, the power is much more manageable on the FC350.

That said, if your hands are cramping then you may be holding on too tight. The '19+ Husky is really easy to grip the bike with your legs (better than my '17). As lame as it sounds: balls of feet on pegs, bent knees gripping seat, unlock your hips and give your hands a break. Like someone said above, ride at 60% and focus on technique solely.

Also to note, set fork air pressure like you're selecting a spring rate, and use clickers to adjust damping (compression and rebound). I was using 145-148 psi on my AER forks on the 350 and I weigh ~200 lbs. After having Enzo revalve forks and shock, they were great at 145 psi.
2
7/27/2022 4:30pm
A 50+ rider in the sand tracks in Wi. And Mi. Does a lot of winning on a tc 167.
2
b8res
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Lodi, CA US
7/27/2022 4:34pm
As a 50+ vet racer I'd look another direction and yes I'm bias towards the blue bike. a 22 0r 23 YZ250, springs and set the sag and go ride it.
3
bvm111
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7/27/2022 4:34pm
350
2
1911
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7/27/2022 4:35pm
Report the to the, Yard Sale Find thread. This is correct answer 👍 The 2023 KTM FI 300 looks nice, too.


1
JoeWV
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Hurricane, WV US
7/27/2022 4:53pm
Another 350 vote, with the Mako bar mount. And get rid of the clamp on grips.

I’m 41 and the tops of my hands cramp and burn like crazy for the first 15-20 minutes of riding. Mine is not CT, it’s actually coming from the nerves in my elbows. My doc said there’s not much to do about it at this point. I use the Aleve cream on top of my hands before riding and it has helped a bunch.
3
Bradshaw Fan
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Bakersfield, CA US
7/27/2022 5:45pm
If you go 350 get the FX 350 or KTM 350 XCF. Gearing is good and the fuel tank does not feel bigger.
2
UGOTBIT
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Upstate, NY US
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7/27/2022 5:46pm
350 all day.

I bought a YZ250 to get back into it, great bike, still have it but the 350 is amazing. So much easier to ride!
4
sandman768
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5958
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Location
Saratoga Springs, NY US
7/27/2022 5:53pm
Stop lifting weights during riding season….try different bar bends…different grips….. 350 all day long…
3
BikePilot
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Location
Golden, CO US
7/27/2022 6:50pm
I would probably stick when the 350 and work on improving the forks, bars and grips. That said the 250 will probably vibrate a little less, they are amazingly smooth. You’ll need to shift more often and use the clutch more on the 250 die to the narrower power curve. I love the two strokes because that’s what I grew up racing and I can ride them well, so that’s what I spend my time on. I’ve zero doubt that the thumper is more effective though. WP suspension is just not great and it transmits weird harsh feedback. My hands hurt after a day on WP forks, they are fine after a day on KYBs. I splurged for some kyb a kits for my 300 Smile
4
7/27/2022 6:57pm
If you're being affected by carpal tunnel that much it's not going to matter what bike you're on, or if you change around your training, etc. Get the surgery you won't regret it.
2
7/27/2022 7:16pm
Hey fellas, So "back in my day" (late 80s, and 90s), I was a mediocre amateur B rider, so not a total slouch. I took a...
Hey fellas,

So "back in my day" (late 80s, and 90s), I was a mediocre amateur B rider, so not a total slouch. I took a massive hiatus after the last big crash breaking my femur so I stepped away from racing, but have never stopped following the sport, or the local racing scene (I live for this stuff). A little over a year ago, at the ripe age of 48, I decided life would be incomplete without getting back on a bike on a track again (while I can). When trying to decide what bike to get, I knew I didn't want a 125, I spent years wringing them out, and while fun, they are work to go fast. I didn't want a 250f, kind of for the same reasons for not wanting a 125. I am 160lbs, and having not been on a bike in a long time (never had a 4t), I figured a 450 was more than I would ever need, which is why I settled in the middle on a 22 FC350.

Fast forward to a year later and about 15 hours on the bike, I have discovered issues I did not realize I would have so bad. I work out 3-4 days a week which consists of a lot of running, and mild weight lifting, so in decent enough shape with good cardio. However, I knew I had arthritis and possibly carpal tunnel, but had no idea how bad it would be. I know there is surgeries and I may cross that bridge some day, but not now. Anyway, my hands cramp, bad... To the point of after about 5 mins of track pace, my hands are on fire and hurt like hell and I have to pull off until they calm down. No cardio problems, no arm pump, just hands that plain suck. I have dialed the suspension a bit (just a bit), and I am certain I am leaving a lot on the table there, but I am not getting the joy I was expecting.

That said, I am beginning to wonder if I picked the wrong bike, so I am seeking advice from you folks that are also vets, but never stopped riding and have had enough variety to possibly give me some advice please. I am man enough to admit when a bike feels like too much, and although I know exactly how to ride at a race pace, my hands are like restrictor plates and I feel dangerous at a race pace with my current issue. Again, I know there is surgeries, but not wanting that (at this time).. I know a 125 will slow me down, but a 125 would also exasperate my hand issues with the amount of clutch time needed there. I have been looking hard at the '23 TC250 (despite the awful colors) thinking it might be a little easier on me, a powerband I am more mentally used to, possibly just even a little more enjoyable to get me riding even a few more mins before my hands feel like they are on fire, but then again, I may be completely nuts. I would hate to go drop another $11K and be disappointed. I guess my main question here (if you are still reading this novel), would a 350f or a 250 two stroke be better for my situation?

Thanks all!
I believe you picked the right bike. It’s just the getting old thing that you can’t opt out of. The only thing that might be easier is the lack of engine braking on the 2 stroke but you still have to work 10 times harder to make the 250 sing and keep
It singing. I race both and I really like my MC 450 over the YZ250. I actually sold the yz recently because it just sat.
1
stone881
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Fruita, CO US
7/27/2022 8:01pm
Get the 350, you won't have to use the clutch like you will on the Yz and get a Rekluse, that will help. I have problems with my hands too, crab claws from holding on to too many hanldebars, ski poles, shovels,etc. I am gonna try stem cell therapy for my hands.
2
SonofThor32
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Corryton, TN US
7/27/2022 10:00pm
Thank you for all of the responses fellas. If anybody knows a good hand ortho in the NW, please let me know. I think you guys have me convinced of a couple of things:

1. Keep my 22 FC350
2. Improve the suspension (especially the forks) and ergos.
3. Take out the Kotex and get my hands fixed.

Thanks again for all of the feedback guys, it really has helped!
1
wr74
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4/13/2015
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AU
7/27/2022 11:19pm
The 350 does vibrate a lot. I struggle with it, but stick with it as the power is so easy to manage and broad. Suggest xtrig phds bar mounts, they do help a bit.
2
Motofinne
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FI
7/27/2022 11:55pm
Yeah check out the Xtrig PHDS bar mounts (clamps too if you want to get some bling), it works wonders on the vibrations that come with the Austrian bikes.
3
Richy
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UK GB
7/28/2022 12:28am Edited Date/Time 7/28/2022 12:29am
I have a '17 TC250 and a '19 FC350. I think the TC250 might actually vibrate less than the FC350. But, the power is much more...
I have a '17 TC250 and a '19 FC350. I think the TC250 might actually vibrate less than the FC350. But, the power is much more manageable on the FC350.

That said, if your hands are cramping then you may be holding on too tight. The '19+ Husky is really easy to grip the bike with your legs (better than my '17). As lame as it sounds: balls of feet on pegs, bent knees gripping seat, unlock your hips and give your hands a break. Like someone said above, ride at 60% and focus on technique solely.

Also to note, set fork air pressure like you're selecting a spring rate, and use clickers to adjust damping (compression and rebound). I was using 145-148 psi on my AER forks on the 350 and I weigh ~200 lbs. After having Enzo revalve forks and shock, they were great at 145 psi.
Everything in this reply is gold.

I'm sure my 350 vibrates more than my tc250 did, however neither are enough to have these issues, it's hardly a KX 500, and the 350 is probably easier to get back up to speed on like most will agree, however I do genuinely miss the two stroke.

I also have / had my hands hurt pretty noticeably and it is absolutely an effect of holding on too tight, for me personally. I didn't think I was, and I am fully aware I shouldn't be, but after returning to riding after a couple of laps it starts and then after 4 or 5 I literally need to stop, it's that super uncomfortable crampy kind of feeling. It has gotten better and all I've done is get (slightly) more into the swing of it again and keep making the conscious effort to use my legs more than my hands for stability. What made it most apparent, was if I was somewhere relaxed like a private track then it wasn't half as bad as I was more relaxed and wasn't hanging on for dear life.

Of course if you have a history of legit hand issues and you can get it sorted then that's a winner for all walks of life, but just saying this is a semi-common problem for some of us coming back to riding so it's worth an honest evaluation 👍
2
wydopen
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805, CA US
7/28/2022 6:15am
I came back after a long break to a 250 2stroke. Was immediately faster when I got on the 350. I also have carpal tunnel issues and i think the light weight lifting I do makes it worse unfortunately. At least for me I can keep my hands under control for 15min and just suffer for the last couple laps of the moto. If you want to race definitely go for the 350. I can start up front every moto with it against 450’s. On the 2stroke not so much. Makes dealing with the numb hands easier when you can manage the race from the front.
1
SonofThor32
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394
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Location
Corryton, TN US
7/28/2022 5:42pm
wr74 wrote:
The 350 does vibrate a lot. I struggle with it, but stick with it as the power is so easy to manage and broad. Suggest xtrig...
The 350 does vibrate a lot. I struggle with it, but stick with it as the power is so easy to manage and broad. Suggest xtrig phds bar mounts, they do help a bit.
I just ordered a set, thank you guys for the advice there! They are amazingly spendy for what they are, if they make any difference, it is worth it though.

Thank you
1
wwdiii
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League City, TX US
7/28/2022 8:02pm
It’s hard to ride and have fun with arm/hand issues.

I had carpal tunnel surgery on my left hand, nerve tunnel left elbow at the same time. Both hurt bad but I waited way to long. I was under the knife for about three hours, mainly they for fix my elbow without having to relocate the nerve.

Carpal causes paint/numbness in your thumb and first fingers, nerve issues in elbow gets your third, little finger and bottom of hand if i remember correctly.

My right hand is starting to go numb when I ride now, but I’m 66 too. Its hard to keep a loose grip, on the throttle but it makes a lot difference if I can. The harder I grip worse my hand gets. Even when I raced back when dinosaurs roamed the earth rode with a death grip and had lot of arm and hand pump issues.
1
7/29/2022 3:45am
Can I point out the quicker you get your carpal tunnel fixed the greater chance you have of it being successful. I had severe CTS at just 30yrs old. Crazy right? 15yrs after the surgery my hands are still great. I couldn't even hold onto the bike one lap before now I'm completely fine. My father didn't get surgery until he was in his 60's and it only fixed one hand. Get it fixed asap
2

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