Regarding holeshot devices & mapping.....

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9/13/2018 1:30 PM

For those with experience with today's race ready 4 strokes with holeshot assisted electronics such as Suzuki's S-HAC and fork guard mounted holeshot devices......

1. Do you feel like these really make enough of a difference in your starts that you firmly believe they've been the difference between holeshots vs. average starts

2. Also what do you feel yields the greatest benefit in starts if you compared it against a 2T......the general tractable nature that the 4T engine has relative to a 2T.......the electronic holeshot assistance systems today's bikes come with.......or the front end lowering fork mounted holeshot devices that release after hitting a bump.



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9/13/2018 1:33 PM
Edited Date/Time: 9/13/2018 1:33 PM

I went to Mammoth and raced “old School”...no holeshot device and no electronic assistance. I did this as a long-term study of these things. Next year: Holeshot device and “A-Mode”. So...
We’ll see.
I’ll race an identical bike in ‘19, too.

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I ripped a start from Egypt and I was happy about that.

9/13/2018 1:37 PM

holeshot devices are for pussies

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9/13/2018 1:40 PM

Depends on the start..... Concrete starts are the normal in SoCal which the holeshot devices are not needed. IMO they only work good on dirt starts where you have alot of traction

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twist wrist and go...

brad@palmspringsmotorsports.com

9/13/2018 1:43 PM

I've never been beat to the first turn because I didn't have a holeshot device or holeshot assist. I happen to be a great starter and if I get a bad start it's usually because I was late.

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2017 RMZ450
2005 YZ250-sold :,(
1998 YZ250
2005 KX250F

80% of the time it works every time
IG @hammerfamily_4 & @2HRacing
Thanks to : Factory Effex, N2Dirt, Acerbis, DT1, Fasthouse, Matix, FMF, ASV, 100% & Mika Metals

9/13/2018 2:30 PM

mattyhamz2 wrote:

I've never been beat to the first turn because I didn't have a holeshot device or holeshot assist. I happen to be a great starter and if I get a bad start it's usually because I was late.

Pretty much the truth right there. I figured out after my first race its better to start up front than way behind. Practiced starts constantly and became a holeshot king,racing was so much better after that. cool

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Ed Johnson

9/13/2018 2:37 PM

peelout wrote:

holeshot devices are for pussies

FACT

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9/13/2018 3:50 PM

I rarely race, and when I do it's in small local races. Usually its me and like three other dudes on the line in my class.

I don't see the need for it since even a last place start for me is 4th place

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9/13/2018 3:51 PM

Holeshot devices help for sure, but you certainly don’t need one to rip a holeshot.

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9/13/2018 3:53 PM

peelout wrote:

holeshot devices are for pussies

Well......and for the guy in first place smile

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9/13/2018 4:57 PM

I have tried the electronic thingy a few times on my YZ450 and hated it. Basically lowers the power until you shift into 3rd.

Hole shot devices give you confidence and can help to some extent. I’ve had good success with them but don’t have one at the moment and my starts don’t seem to suffer.

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9/13/2018 5:41 PM

Never had a holeshot in my life. When I tried, I crashed or got pushed out. But one time at an Odin KS harescrambles I got off the gate real good on the old XR600. I chickened out at the top of start straight hill. I just knew 20 bikes were gonna T-bone me on the 180 right hander. Turns out I had at least 50 feet on the closest bike behind me. Because I backed off I wound up last out of the first turn. Thankfully it was a 2 hour race...I passed them all and have plastic to prove it. There was an ornery bastard on a KTM525 that fought till the last corner though. Racing is cool fellas.

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If it ain't yer's don't take it, If it ain't the truth dont say it, If it ain't right don't do it...Marcus Aurelius

9/13/2018 9:33 PM

Thanks for the replies guys i appreciate each of your opinions

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9/13/2018 9:45 PM

I race a yz250 and have been racing the same guys all season and haven't pulled one holeshot. I've been close but never got it done. Fitted up a holeshot device last week and raced on Sunday, first moto ripped a massive holeshot. I couldn't believe how much quicker I got off the gate with it.

Second moto the bike bogged for some reason, ended up third to the first corner then came together with another rider and got knocked out so never got another chance to try it out.

As far as 2 stroke vs 4 stroke, against 250f 's I have the power advantage but the power isn't as smooth and harder to control, comes down to technique. The 250f can just feed it off the gate, the 2t needs to be controlled. Against 450's, well they got a big power advantage, 450 should win to the first corner every time all things being equal

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9/14/2018 1:38 AM
Edited Date/Time: 9/14/2018 1:39 AM

The holeshot is taken in the first 20 feet. The launch electronic maps in my opinion hinder the rider more than help. My holeshot mode sucks on my husky 250. Don’t line it. Give the skilled rider the aggressive map and reaction time coupled with the first 20 feet and....catch me in the first turn bro.

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GP740
Since 1987

9/14/2018 2:21 AM

peelout wrote:

holeshot devices are for pussies

kkawboy14 wrote:

Well......and for the guy in first place smile

Pussy is for the guy in 1st place too.

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9/14/2018 6:23 AM

The fork device helps me a lot when the dirt is sticky I feel like I can be more agresive.

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9/14/2018 6:52 AM

I found the combination of Front and Rear holeshot devices to work best. I am not found of the start map on the 450's but just the rear holeshot device is crucial to my starts. It keeps the rear from unloading when you snap the throttle and gives more drive.
GoYamaha

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9/14/2018 8:36 AM

The tractable nature and long pull of the 4 stroke make starts way easier, I find. The 2 stroke needs to be kept on the bubble whereas the 4 stroke (250F in my experience) pulls forever. I regularly beat 250 2 strokes to the first turn on my 250F (sand track with a concrete start pad). It's much harder to get it right on the 2 stroke. I don't use launch control - just clutch and throttle control. I used a 2 stroke for part of the year and found my starts to be much more consistent of the 250F.

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Current rides: 2016 KTM 250SXF, 2017 KTM 350SXF

9/14/2018 12:54 PM

I'll throw in my two cents...... the reality is top teams are tuning and adjusting their start maps on race day and as the dirt changes so does the map adjustment. That being said not all top riders choose to use start maps. My personal opinion is that there can't be one start map supplied with the bike that works on multiple dirt surfaces and concrete. The rider needs to test the start map and become familiar with how it works and then decide when and if you utilize it.

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9/14/2018 1:03 PM

We have a 18 FS450 supermoto with a start device, and launch control. as do 4 guys at the front of our class . The one guy that doesnt have a Husky is on a TM, and we smoke him off the line.

We have a Vortex with a launch map that is better than the stocker , its great.

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9/14/2018 1:33 PM

OEM Motocross electronic holeshot devices are a little different.

Because there is no wheel speed sensors the ECU just looks for spikes in RPM as a sign it needs to remove ignition timing to reduce power.

So really its just guessing how much power to pull out based on spikes in the engine RPM.

One great feature is the secondary RPM limiter it gives you. So you can leave at the exact same RPM every time.

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Race Bike: 2018 KTM 350SXF

Other Bikes: 1985 CR80R, 1990 CR250R, 1998 PW80, Specialized Fuse Comp 29.

Sold: 2016 YZ250F, 2012 CRF250R

9/14/2018 1:35 PM
Edited Date/Time: 9/14/2018 1:36 PM

Don't need fork mounted holeshot devices.

And the way you release the clutch beats mapping.

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