Redbud almost a sand track?

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7/6/2019 7:29 PM

Track super duper loamy and sandy type dirt. Never really paid much attention to it in the past.

It seems most tracks these days are going this direction to keep the dust down and develop huge deep ruts.

We know they bring in outside dirt to achieve this because in the past all tracks were hard packed and dusty 20 years ago so I think sandy tracks are pretty much the norm these days.

It is cool to see the roost come off the back and there is zero dust. The dirt just settles and falls back to the ground because of the mixture they bring in.

Night and day from tracks in the past. Just so pretty and loamy and so much traction. It’s not natural though it’s all stuff brought in from the outside.

There was a local track that did the same thing and the dirt was so deep and loamy that my 250f would get stuck and lose power when first groomed and you were first rider on it.

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7/6/2019 7:35 PM

I was trying to think of the last time there was a national track that had blue groove. Couldn’t think of one. Probably never will see one again, Paddle tires will be the ticket on race day in a few years if it keeps going the way it’s been.

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7/6/2019 7:40 PM

While I love sand tracks we do need a 'blue groove' track again on the circuit. Just don't water it like the old days.

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7/6/2019 8:31 PM

I raced there at vet fest once. It was like riding on heaven. My local track is blue groove, it’s not so good

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7/6/2019 8:38 PM

Noticed Colt Nichols was running a full sand tire when he crashed. Guess 90% of them would be running one.

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7/6/2019 9:19 PM

Ramrod wrote:

I raced there at vet fest once. It was like riding on heaven. My local track is blue groove, it’s not so good

I hated blue groove but just think it would be good to have one in the series.

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7/6/2019 9:35 PM

I blame #Limegate

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7/7/2019 1:57 AM

Don’t you know, that according to some vitards on here, they brought in a lot of sand last year to favor the GP riders at the MXoN...

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7/7/2019 3:14 AM

mxmasta wrote:

Don’t you know, that according to some vitards on here, they brought in a lot of sand last year to favor the GP riders at the MXoN...

On that topic - Lawrence has a pretty good theory on why the track developed differently at the MXdN. It's not so much the way it is prepped, but the way the tracks are ridden. Euros tend to sweep the turns, Americans tend to point and shoot

http://pulpmx.com/app/uploads/2019/07/2019-Redbud-Lawrence.mp3

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7/7/2019 3:53 AM

mxmasta wrote:

Don’t you know, that according to some vitards on here, they brought in a lot of sand last year to favor the GP riders at the MXoN...

Derpin' DJ wrote:

On that topic - Lawrence has a pretty good theory on why the track developed differently at the MXdN. It's not so much the way it is prepped, but the way the tracks are ridden. Euros tend to sweep the turns, Americans tend to point and shoot

http://pulpmx.com/app/uploads/2019/07/2019-Redbud-Lawrence.mp3

That interview was brilliant.

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7/7/2019 4:13 AM

They have brought a shit ton of sand onto the track over the years, anyone who has been there if you look to where Lot B used to be there is a huge void of material/ sand they have hauled onto the track. Also in the off cambers they used to haul compost from the city there for years because that used to be hard and rocky as well. I give red bud credit because it is a awesome place to ride but also the fact they are working to maintain the racing surface. Look at the Wick 20 years ago and now. Soft sand is mainly gone or Washougal and that awesome dirt is mainly gone and its down to the hard pan.

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7/7/2019 4:38 AM

The RedBud overall facility is impressive, not just the track. If you watched from tv, the helicopter visuals really showed how beautiful the place is. Nice trees, green grass everywhere, fencing, etc.

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7/7/2019 4:54 AM
Edited Date/Time: 7/7/2019 4:57 AM

mx295 wrote:

I was trying to think of the last time there was a national track that had blue groove. Couldn’t think of one. Probably never will see one again, Paddle tires will be the ticket on race day in a few years if it keeps going the way it’s been.

Steel City 2011 had some, and a lot of the guys complained...

I know what you mean though, that's the only one I can think of and of course is some yrs ago now. And re-watching; it doesn't even look that bad but the riders and teams have become very accustomed to pretty much one sort of dirt. I miss the variety of the 90s.

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7/7/2019 5:02 AM

Ramrod wrote:

The RedBud overall facility is impressive, not just the track. If you watched from tv, the helicopter visuals really showed how beautiful the place is. Nice trees, green grass everywhere, fencing, etc.

The females at Redbud deserve honorable mention.

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7/7/2019 5:06 AM

Motofinne wrote:

That interview was brilliant.

Agreed, really good interview.

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7/7/2019 5:43 AM

Ramrod wrote:

The RedBud overall facility is impressive, not just the track. If you watched from tv, the helicopter visuals really showed how beautiful the place is. Nice trees, green grass everywhere, fencing, etc.

Efritts75 wrote:

The females at Redbud deserve honorable mention.

Ahh yes plenty of eye candy there yesterday

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2011 Yamaha YZ 250 -MX
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7/7/2019 6:06 AM

Washougal is a blue groove like track. Smooth but very technical track.

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7/7/2019 7:59 AM
Edited Date/Time: 7/7/2019 8:02 AM

Majority of West Michigan is basically on a dune, so it only makes sense.. Dig deep enough, and sand is what you find. Not sure why people are so surprised by this. Most MI tracks that have been around for decades are sandy.

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7/7/2019 8:23 AM

crowe176 wrote:

Majority of West Michigan is basically on a dune, so it only makes sense.. Dig deep enough, and sand is what you find. Not sure why people are so surprised by this. Most MI tracks that have been around for decades are sandy.

Exactly, I cant think of one track that is "hard pack" in the state, other then maybe some fair tracks. I mean I am in SE michigan and its all sand. Coops. Twisted, Baja, Bulldogs, Sandbox, Polka Dots, MXexpress.

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7/7/2019 9:27 AM

mx295 wrote:

I was trying to think of the last time there was a national track that had blue groove. Couldn’t think of one. Probably never will see one again, Paddle tires will be the ticket on race day in a few years if it keeps going the way it’s been.

troy ohio, red bud had some blue groove sections in the 80s. washougal, gainesville, etc. they all started watering to the point of mud for pro day, so we didnt see it as much. I remember guy cooper riding a practice bike for the first practice at red bud, then swithcing for the 2nd practice. used to be a mud pit for first practice.

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7/7/2019 9:30 AM

crowe176 wrote:

Majority of West Michigan is basically on a dune, so it only makes sense.. Dig deep enough, and sand is what you find. Not sure why people are so surprised by this. Most MI tracks that have been around for decades are sandy.

ehr400 wrote:

Exactly, I cant think of one track that is "hard pack" in the state, other then maybe some fair tracks. I mean I am in SE michigan and its all sand. Coops. Twisted, Baja, Bulldogs, Sandbox, Polka Dots, MXexpress.

theyve all added sand, mulch or dig deep. big air used to get blue groove in 1999. same for freelin. watch red bud from the 80s, or even early 90s

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7/7/2019 9:42 AM

crowe176 wrote:

Majority of West Michigan is basically on a dune, so it only makes sense.. Dig deep enough, and sand is what you find. Not sure why people are so surprised by this. Most MI tracks that have been around for decades are sandy.

ehr400 wrote:

Exactly, I cant think of one track that is "hard pack" in the state, other then maybe some fair tracks. I mean I am in SE michigan and its all sand. Coops. Twisted, Baja, Bulldogs, Sandbox, Polka Dots, MXexpress.

cable wrote:

theyve all added sand, mulch or dig deep. big air used to get blue groove in 1999. same for freelin. watch red bud from the 80s, or even early 90s

Oh I know, same with log road too. Big Air had alot of hard pack sections before Powers took over.

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7/7/2019 2:06 PM

I grew up riding big air, when it was Garfield lol. I remember the blue groove days well. That track has always been underrated!

What I’m saying, is these tracks, big air, Redbud etc they’ve all had their blue groove years, but, and I could be totally off base, underneath the clay is sand. If you dig these tracks deep enough for decades, you’re going to get to sand. I know they’ve all brought sand/mulch/wood chips etc over the years, to keep the dirt how the riders Prefer but Redbud could be a lot sandier if they just kept discing. That’s just my theory anyway. I just know most places I ride over here, can get as deep as you want but in order to keep the tracks shaped well, mulch/black dirt, even fresh sand needs to be mixed in at some point or it just becomes soot.

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I miss

7/7/2019 3:49 PM
Edited Date/Time: 7/7/2019 3:52 PM

NeuroMaxwell wrote:

Washougal is a blue groove like track. Smooth but very technical track.

Smooth? LOL. Ride there much? In the morning it's deer guts on a doorknob slick, and by the end of the day it's a rutted, rough, square hole. bluegrooved nightmare. Once it starts to dry it's done - you can't water it then or it's ice.

It's cool like it is, but I'd like to see what they could do if they loamed it up with a lot of sand and wood chips/sawdust. Save the clay for the jump faces and landings. It would totally change it's personality but it might be cool too.There's no operator in the Portland area that build a loamy track. Albany MX is close but it's not full loam. Mountainview would be awesome if they'd loam it up but they don't have the budget.

It's been cool and dry here in the PNW lately. Be interesting to see how Washougal turns out for the National. Hope to hell it doesn't rain.

Mike

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7/8/2019 6:41 AM

I wonder how much the equipment used today to maintain the tracks differs from 20 years ago? Bigger Dozers and bigger tractors, ect..

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7/8/2019 1:39 PM

NeuroMaxwell wrote:

Washougal is a blue groove like track. Smooth but very technical track.

Hammer 663s wrote:

Smooth? LOL. Ride there much? In the morning it's deer guts on a doorknob slick, and by the end of the day it's a rutted, rough, square hole. bluegrooved nightmare. Once it starts to dry it's done - you can't water it then or it's ice.

It's cool like it is, but I'd like to see what they could do if they loamed it up with a lot of sand and wood chips/sawdust. Save the clay for the jump faces and landings. It would totally change it's personality but it might be cool too.There's no operator in the Portland area that build a loamy track. Albany MX is close but it's not full loam. Mountainview would be awesome if they'd loam it up but they don't have the budget.

It's been cool and dry here in the PNW lately. Be interesting to see how Washougal turns out for the National. Hope to hell it doesn't rain.

Mike

I used to do the amateur race there every summer until 2008. Sure, it can get some rough spots, square edges, and some big long ruts, but it's still a smooth track relative to other ones, like Southwick or Glen Helen. Maybe it's different now? Either way, it's one of the more hardpack tracks that requires precision / throttle control more than being in amazing shape and riding on the edge all Moto. I think combining that hard base with sand would make that track super gnarly because you'd get those big square edge bumps all over the place. Might be worth a try, since the sand won't stick around long. It would be sad to see a track with a unique personality go away, though.

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7/8/2019 4:23 PM

You guys seriously want a blue groove track so that guy can crash on concrete when they go down?

If you want variety that's fine, but don't sit there and complain about injuries and then in the next breath ask these guys to race on asphalt.

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7/8/2019 6:29 PM

Ramrod wrote:

The RedBud overall facility is impressive, not just the track. If you watched from tv, the helicopter visuals really showed how beautiful the place is. Nice trees, green grass everywhere, fencing, etc.

Efritts75 wrote:

The females at Redbud deserve honorable mention.

eric513anderson wrote:

Ahh yes plenty of eye candy there yesterday

I think we are gonna need some photo evidence on this one?? Anyone?

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7/8/2019 6:50 PM

While I don't have photographic evidence of the local talent there this year I do have some old pictures that show a completely different track surface. First shot is from the valley, had a supercross triple then a double followed by an uphill double. Next is a corner mid race with absolutely no ruts. Last picture was coming out of the first corner and the first two straights were the only ones disc'ed at all. Not nearly as deep as it is today. Lamson was the only guy that would take the line on the edge of the track. He would come by pinned and at least a gear higher than everyone else. If you wanted to you could reach out and touch him. I would always go stand there for at least one of the 125 races.






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7/8/2019 6:53 PM

What was it, 2 or 3 years ago that they prepped Hangtown for rain, got none, and the track was dry and super fast bluegroove? Nothing to separate the riders - many commented on how it was one lined, very fast, and hard to pass on. A good loamy track develops in a way that allows options and separation. I’d rather ride deep loam than anything else. When my little track is prepped like that it’s the best.

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