Real motocross...you be the judge

early
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2/7/2018 12:52pm
The worst thing about that vid is the voice-over. You can tell it was added after the fact, and it just sounds stupid.
Ill take that guy over Ralph and Jeff
MPJC
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2/7/2018 12:59pm
Surely nobody doubts that machinery and techniques have evolved tremendously. Knowledge of nutrition and training methods has also increased. But you can't take anything away from the riders of the 80s in terms of what they did with what they had. Those guys were tough as nails. Here in Canada, Ross Pederson routinely competed in all three classes - 125, 250, and 500 - and won them all.

The Shop

OldPro277
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2/7/2018 1:34pm
bball35 wrote:
Old guys will get angry at this, but riders today have way more skill, talent, balls than back then. These guys today have to be at...
Old guys will get angry at this, but riders today have way more skill, talent, balls than back then. These guys today have to be at the top of their game health and mental wise to win.
Donovan759 wrote:
I'm not an old guy, and I couldn't disagree more with you on this. Yes, training and dedication has increased with the RC4 & JS7 era...
I'm not an old guy, and I couldn't disagree more with you on this. Yes, training and dedication has increased with the RC4 & JS7 era. It had to.

Todays athletes have more dedication and physical fitness? Sure.
Skill, talent, balls? Nope.
bball35--- Spoken like someone that has zero clue what went on back in the late 70's and 80's. These guys went 45 +2 with 9--10" travel on tracks that weren't groomed to look like a postcard. The skill set of that era is no different than it is now. If Roger D, Hannah, Marty Smith were young today,they'd still be winning. Likewise if RV, RC and Dungey were racing back in that time ,they'd be winning too. Talking about mental preparation?? Have you ever tried staying 110% focused for an approx 50 min moto at Pro speeds---twice in a couple of hours ?? Cmon dude,this argument is silly. You just can't compare the Era's.

But.....if you really want to compare.....,todays racers have an entire entourage on the payroll ,nutritionists, fitness coaches, riding coaches, sports Psychologists, suspension gurus with the latest computerized technology, etc,etc.. Back then ,these guys had to do it all pretty much all of that on their own ,THATS determination and dedication.

b_kowalsk
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2/7/2018 2:55pm
Love spectators in the tree, thats how u watch a race!
wreckitrandy
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2/7/2018 3:18pm
Real motocross, is like Bobby said, 45 minutes on rougher tracks. That sand track in Italy was a real track and the oldest guy there wore everybody out.... If it had been 45 minutes, he'd have worn them out worse. If it would have been 40 years ago on then current bikes against DeCoster, it would have been a race. jmo
2/7/2018 8:48pm
bball35 wrote:
Old guys will get angry at this, but riders today have way more skill, talent, balls than back then. These guys today have to be at...
Old guys will get angry at this, but riders today have way more skill, talent, balls than back then. These guys today have to be at the top of their game health and mental wise to win.
Donovan759 wrote:
I'm not an old guy, and I couldn't disagree more with you on this. Yes, training and dedication has increased with the RC4 & JS7 era...
I'm not an old guy, and I couldn't disagree more with you on this. Yes, training and dedication has increased with the RC4 & JS7 era. It had to.

Todays athletes have more dedication and physical fitness? Sure.
Skill, talent, balls? Nope.
OldPro277 wrote:
bball35--- Spoken like someone that has zero clue what went on back in the late 70's and 80's. These guys went 45 +2 with 9--10" travel...
bball35--- Spoken like someone that has zero clue what went on back in the late 70's and 80's. These guys went 45 +2 with 9--10" travel on tracks that weren't groomed to look like a postcard. The skill set of that era is no different than it is now. If Roger D, Hannah, Marty Smith were young today,they'd still be winning. Likewise if RV, RC and Dungey were racing back in that time ,they'd be winning too. Talking about mental preparation?? Have you ever tried staying 110% focused for an approx 50 min moto at Pro speeds---twice in a couple of hours ?? Cmon dude,this argument is silly. You just can't compare the Era's.

But.....if you really want to compare.....,todays racers have an entire entourage on the payroll ,nutritionists, fitness coaches, riding coaches, sports Psychologists, suspension gurus with the latest computerized technology, etc,etc.. Back then ,these guys had to do it all pretty much all of that on their own ,THATS determination and dedication.

I’d love to know which pro’s front the mid 80’s had to do all the above mentioned. Things were very simple in those days so less skill was required. I’d love to see some photos of Hannah doing an engine change or his suspension etc or any of the pros for that era.
Yes “back in the day” riders and mechanics were talented but evolution and time has created greater talent / skills.
“Back in the day” it was known that Lechien didn’t train and could rock up with no sleep after partying and whack the field. There is no way you can do that these days so talent alone can’t help.
Today’s riders are more of the complete package
Ted722
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2/7/2018 9:01pm
Ron Lechien could do the same today. 30 minutes + 2 ? Indoors? No question. He was that good.
ledger
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2/7/2018 9:11pm
Magoo would kick everyone's ass today, and give an autograph while blitzing the whoops.
1
ts.p311
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2/7/2018 9:20pm
It was tough then, and it's tough now. Everyone can put their dicks away.
Bearuno
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2/7/2018 9:34pm Edited Date/Time 2/7/2018 10:06pm
Hannahs comment about not liking to win that way despite promises to fans (?) and Suzuki.

Re the promises to Suzuki about the win - I think that's how he was allowed to ride the Boyesen Link bike ( that's what it is, boys) - saying to Suzuki that if he was allowed to ride it, he'd win.

Can you imagine any Works Team allowing a rider to race such a radically different bike / suspension, built by someone other than them, in this day and age? Not likely to happen.


Jan De Groot seemed to have a fair amount of lee-way with his Kawasaki relationship in the GPs - trying a few radically different rear ends over the years. Truly one of the Greatest Moto Engineers.
JB 19
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2/7/2018 10:01pm Edited Date/Time 2/7/2018 10:04pm
I watched a tape of that race about 100 times when I was a kid in the 80's and even back then Hannah's post race interview had a big effect on me. 1. He wasn't happy to win that way, he wanted to earn it. 2. An ultra competitive Bob Hannah gave credit that Johnny wore him down.

Also the black roost flying off of the rear tires at old Unadilla was second to none. And the woman at 1:20 was on point!
lumpy790
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2/7/2018 10:06pm
I miss the days when Unadilla was spread with grass seed after the race a a mower before the race.

Hannahs performance at the 1987 NXoN on a 125 was spectacular!
bents
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2/7/2018 10:19pm
I sure prefer that style of track vs the groomed then rutted Unadilla of today. The the video of that track looked gnarly. I would love to see a modern bike on that same track. And i sure didn't notice the lack of jumps. Those guys are as equally talented as the guys are today and most of todays pros couldn't hang with the training regimen those dudes put themselves through. Perhaps it wasn't as sophisticated as the sport science is today, but they were every bit as fit as the top dudes today. The top guys were in retrospect, were probably overtrained. That was awesome-thanks Bobby.
SCR
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2/7/2018 10:53pm
bball35 wrote:
Old guys will get angry at this, but riders today have way more skill, talent, balls than back then. These guys today have to be at...
Old guys will get angry at this, but riders today have way more skill, talent, balls than back then. These guys today have to be at the top of their game health and mental wise to win.
Stop it.
Guys in the 80s had to be every bit on top of their game as any other time. They had equal the skill and talent , just different for different conditions, bikes etc. They trained just as hard and we're just as dedicated.
The competition was even tougher and why you saw less domination. The number of kids racing in the seventies was 100 times what it's been last couple decades and just by the numbers that produced many more fast guys fighting for factory rides in the 80s. Just in SoCal dozens of tracks had hundreds of rideas every Saturday and Sunday. Not to mention Tues thru Friday night races. Trust me the few that got factory rides were on the top of their game.
The reason the guys pull off their helmet after a 30 min moto and look fresh compared to guys in the 80s that looked like their going to collapse is because 45 mins on a 85 CR500 at Unadilla was a lot more demanding than 35 min on a 2018 450 at Unadilla groomed like is is today.
Everyone says it was Carmichael that raised the bar for training after some guys in the 90s abandoned the training that most top guys did in the 80s which may be true. It's also true that it was Omara that got Rickys chubby little ass in shape and taught him how to train and mentored him into a champion.
Balls ? I don't think anything in motocross has ever taken more balls than the best riders in the world i watched desend the Carlsbad downhill on air cooled, drum brake 500s.
EZZA 95B
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2/7/2018 11:33pm Edited Date/Time 2/7/2018 11:35pm
I was yet to receive my '91 PW 50 from Santa when these races were taking place but, dad brought these back from Belgium the same year, and this is all I watched, over and over (Along with the taped Motocross des Nations from Manjimup) up until Crusty Demons was advertised on our Wide World of Sports and we ordered it over the phone.Laughing


I love watching races like the one posted and think it's awesome that we have the opportunity to do so now.

It's definitely not what it used to be but, it's still pretty fucking hardcore.
2/8/2018 5:07am
BobbyM wrote:
Robgvx wrote:
Observations from that Unadilla video: 1. It was rough. And some of those straights took technique rather than just holding the throttle open. 2. Picking the...
Observations from that Unadilla video:

1. It was rough. And some of those straights took technique rather than just holding the throttle open.

2. Picking the best/smoothest line was actually a thing.

3. Because of the above, the speed with which riders went on those sections varied far more compared to today’s tracks, (dependent on their skill and line choice).

4. No artificial jumps. Didn’t take anything away from the spectacle though.

5. The track seemed much wider, but slower than today’s, with slower corners which were at the same time roomy.

6. Slower speeds = easier passing. (It’s more difficult to turn a bike when it’s going fast).

7. Notice how few 180 degree corners there were? IMO 180 degree corners don’t help passing.

8. I wish modern racing would incorporate tracks like that.
Probably why the mxgp riders in my opinion are coming out with an edge on the American guys. Some of those surfaces are horrendous. In America we can only ride on a 4 lane highway that is cookie cake batter preppped.
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OldPro277
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2/8/2018 7:35am
Donovan759 wrote:
I'm not an old guy, and I couldn't disagree more with you on this. Yes, training and dedication has increased with the RC4 & JS7 era...
I'm not an old guy, and I couldn't disagree more with you on this. Yes, training and dedication has increased with the RC4 & JS7 era. It had to.

Todays athletes have more dedication and physical fitness? Sure.
Skill, talent, balls? Nope.
OldPro277 wrote:
bball35--- Spoken like someone that has zero clue what went on back in the late 70's and 80's. These guys went 45 +2 with 9--10" travel...
bball35--- Spoken like someone that has zero clue what went on back in the late 70's and 80's. These guys went 45 +2 with 9--10" travel on tracks that weren't groomed to look like a postcard. The skill set of that era is no different than it is now. If Roger D, Hannah, Marty Smith were young today,they'd still be winning. Likewise if RV, RC and Dungey were racing back in that time ,they'd be winning too. Talking about mental preparation?? Have you ever tried staying 110% focused for an approx 50 min moto at Pro speeds---twice in a couple of hours ?? Cmon dude,this argument is silly. You just can't compare the Era's.

But.....if you really want to compare.....,todays racers have an entire entourage on the payroll ,nutritionists, fitness coaches, riding coaches, sports Psychologists, suspension gurus with the latest computerized technology, etc,etc.. Back then ,these guys had to do it all pretty much all of that on their own ,THATS determination and dedication.

I’d love to know which pro’s front the mid 80’s had to do all the above mentioned. Things were very simple in those days so less...
I’d love to know which pro’s front the mid 80’s had to do all the above mentioned. Things were very simple in those days so less skill was required. I’d love to see some photos of Hannah doing an engine change or his suspension etc or any of the pros for that era.
Yes “back in the day” riders and mechanics were talented but evolution and time has created greater talent / skills.
“Back in the day” it was known that Lechien didn’t train and could rock up with no sleep after partying and whack the field. There is no way you can do that these days so talent alone can’t help.
Today’s riders are more of the complete package
Your're missing my point "Dick". And by the way, I was there back then (76-81). I was one of those guys,so I DO know what we had to do on our own. Yes, everyone had a mechanic,but it basically stopped there. Yes, some of the top guys(Hannah,Roger, Team Honda) may have had s suspension specialist, but non of the ancillary" personal help team" that the current guys have.

Your statement of "evolution and time has created GREATER talent and skills" should read
" evolution and time has created DIFFERENT talent and skills"
Top guys then,would be top guys now, and vice versa.....end of story
bball35
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2/8/2018 7:44am
OldPro277 wrote:
Your're missing my point "Dick". And by the way, I was there back then (76-81). I was one of those guys,so I DO know what we...
Your're missing my point "Dick". And by the way, I was there back then (76-81). I was one of those guys,so I DO know what we had to do on our own. Yes, everyone had a mechanic,but it basically stopped there. Yes, some of the top guys(Hannah,Roger, Team Honda) may have had s suspension specialist, but non of the ancillary" personal help team" that the current guys have.

Your statement of "evolution and time has created GREATER talent and skills" should read
" evolution and time has created DIFFERENT talent and skills"
Top guys then,would be top guys now, and vice versa.....end of story
Yea just like all the white men in the NBA in the 50-60s would be dominate in the NBA today. Your ignorance is showing.
1
bball35
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2/8/2018 7:45am
Some of yalls feelings are getting hurt. Maybe some you "old fellas" should pop the magic pill and have some fun with the "old lady"
ML512
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2/8/2018 7:53am
Dudes were badasses back then and they're still badasses today, what's wrong with that?
OldPro277
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2/8/2018 8:11am
So......you're saying that Mantle, Gehrig, Dimaggio, Mays,Koufax,Gibson etc,etc, would not be stars in todays MLB ?? Maybe its YOUR ignorance that is showing. In stick and ball sports,technology hasn't developed a huge difference in equipment as it has in Moto. The bikes are so far advanced and the tracks are so different that its impossible to compare apples to apples. Even if you had the EXACT same track from 1977 to 2017 you couldn't even compare lap times because of the difference of equipment, not the rider. In stick and ball sports where the court/field has been constant over the years, how many all-time records are still held by earlier era's (old guys) ??? A shit ton. Does that mean they are better/worse athletes than todays stars (Harper,Trout, Kershaw,Machado,Arrieta)?? Its certainly a far easier comparison in those sports than it is in Moto,since the field of play and equipment has remained somewhat constant. But I stand with my original statement. That yesterdays top guys would still be top guys today.
ATKpilot99
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2/8/2018 8:26am
OldPro277 wrote:
Your're missing my point "Dick". And by the way, I was there back then (76-81). I was one of those guys,so I DO know what we...
Your're missing my point "Dick". And by the way, I was there back then (76-81). I was one of those guys,so I DO know what we had to do on our own. Yes, everyone had a mechanic,but it basically stopped there. Yes, some of the top guys(Hannah,Roger, Team Honda) may have had s suspension specialist, but non of the ancillary" personal help team" that the current guys have.

Your statement of "evolution and time has created GREATER talent and skills" should read
" evolution and time has created DIFFERENT talent and skills"
Top guys then,would be top guys now, and vice versa.....end of story
bball35 wrote:
Yea just like all the white men in the NBA in the 50-60s would be dominate in the NBA today. Your ignorance is showing.
Ridiculous analogy . Compare O'Mara in his prime and he is similar to many riders today as far as stature and strength. Compare Lebron to those guys you mention ? Not close . That would be a better analogy for yesterday's machinery compared to today .
motomike137
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2/8/2018 8:41am
If Hannah were to hit the scene today he would have most of these guys whimpering in their helmets.
jk367
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2/8/2018 8:42am
Thanks for posting bobby! Bad ass video. When did they stop running black backgrounds on 250cc?
Uncle Tony
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2/8/2018 8:46am
They were actually dark green for the 250 grand prix back then

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