Ready for a Chinese 250 2-Stroke MX'er?

oldblood
Posts
1860
Joined
4/21/2016
Location
Placerville, CA US
3/16/2018 10:56pm
I'm going to head to wal mart in the morning and pick up my meds, a pair of sneakers, some pajamas, cool aid, potato chips, and a two stroke.
1
OldYZRider1
Posts
848
Joined
7/10/2009
Location
Bushnell, IL US
3/17/2018 9:52am
Where the hell have they been? I figured when the Japanese left the two stroke market the Chinese would be quick to fill in the void. Is there some little known code of ethics that Asians won't steal trade secrets from other Asians. Maybe they only steal from Caucasian countries or maybe just American?
GoonSquad250x
Posts
3034
Joined
5/11/2012
Location
Kennesaw , GA US
Fantasy
4018th
3/17/2018 10:05am
JRT812 wrote:
“It's not a "Race" engine but can be made to put out H.P. you like.. think enduro power plant.”

As a enduro rider I am triggered.
Me too...



OP, Please tell us More!!!
nytsmaC
Posts
5960
Joined
8/10/2009
Location
Frig Off CA
3/17/2018 10:14am
Katoomey wrote:
the difference between a Japanese product and a Chinese product is like the difference between a plastic spork and a table-set of fine silver. They don't...
the difference between a Japanese product and a Chinese product is like the difference between a plastic spork and a table-set of fine silver. They don't even belong in the same conversation.
You think this thing will be any worse than RM or KX build quality from 20 years ago? We all bought them even though they were junk.
1

The Shop

easydoesit
Posts
101
Joined
12/24/2016
Location
Homestead, FL US
3/17/2018 10:22am
Where the hell have they been? I figured when the Japanese left the two stroke market the Chinese would be quick to fill in the void...
Where the hell have they been? I figured when the Japanese left the two stroke market the Chinese would be quick to fill in the void. Is there some little known code of ethics that Asians won't steal trade secrets from other Asians. Maybe they only steal from Caucasian countries or maybe just American?
The Chinese and Japanese HATE each other.
3/17/2018 10:51am Edited Date/Time 3/17/2018 2:34pm
yz133rider wrote:
Hopefully it brings a new niche a new lineup of bikes that arent 10k new. Yamaha should be doing that with their 13 year old 2018s...
Hopefully it brings a new niche a new lineup of bikes that arent 10k new. Yamaha should be doing that with their 13 year old 2018s as it is. They are vintage bikes as it is.

More mfgs could bring out dirtbikes that arent geared to just the racers.

And maybe tracks can build tracks not just for the lorettas racers.

Imagine that maybe we can get people riding again
Titan1 wrote:
Don’t most Japanese brands already build bikes that aren’t geared toward racers? Honda has the CRF line...Yamaha the TT-R...etc. cheap, low maintamnece bikes...designed to introduce people...
Don’t most Japanese brands already build bikes that aren’t geared toward racers? Honda has the CRF line...Yamaha the TT-R...etc. cheap, low maintamnece bikes...designed to introduce people to the sport?
Right. And where are CRFs and TTRs already being built?

3/17/2018 10:59am
mikec265 wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2018/03/16/249824/s1200_Screenshot_20180317_015328.jpg[/img] It better get one hell of a good review from the magazine's testers to be worth paying $5500. What we need is new Jap 125s...


It better get one hell of a good review from the magazine's testers to be worth paying $5500.

What we need is new Jap 125s so we can have used 125s for a dime a dozen like it was 15 years ago. Everyone I know started on a cheap used 125 in the 90s and early 2000s
Yeah.
That seems pretty expensive given that the SSR (Asiawing) SR250 four stroke imports at $3899:
outerlimits
Posts
188
Joined
9/23/2016
Location
San Diego, CA US
3/17/2018 11:24am
I would wait for the reviews as well. There are plenty of them out there on the same bike direct from the manufacturer (GR7), but most of them are in Russian.

For the haters of Chinese things in general, it does seem like deja vu to when Japanese bikes and cars appeared on the scene back in the 50's. When you buy parts for your car (brakes, alternators, batteries, tires, belts, exhausts, etc) you would be surprised how much Chinese stuff you are buying without thinking about it. You will get over it as time goes by and products get better and better. Remember that the Japanese copied everything, but then made them a little better. Many of the Chinese bikes were and are junk because they didn't copy good designs and made them in poor quality. These seem to be a little different and time will tell one way or the other. But they have chosen to copy an Austrian frame and a Japanese motor, that were well liked. Is it too expensive? I'd say yes, but the reason is the low production numbers for that motor. It hasnt been used before in a Chinese bike since it was copied from Yamaha. They have a similar 250F fuel injected enduro bike that has gotten great reviews, but it retailed for a grand less and sold brand new at times for $3000. That motor has been used in a variety of bikes including AJP's and Gas Gas and there are a lot of them out there. It won't be a replacement any time soon for a current race bike, but maybe some day they will get there. Not everyone wants to run out and hand $4000 to someone for their ratted out 18 year old CR250.
Tuna
Posts
1582
Joined
4/3/2017
Location
CA
3/17/2018 11:31am
mikec265 wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2018/03/16/249824/s1200_Screenshot_20180317_015328.jpg[/img] It better get one hell of a good review from the magazine's testers to be worth paying $5500. What we need is new Jap 125s...


It better get one hell of a good review from the magazine's testers to be worth paying $5500.

What we need is new Jap 125s so we can have used 125s for a dime a dozen like it was 15 years ago. Everyone I know started on a cheap used 125 in the 90s and early 2000s
Yeah. That seems pretty expensive given that the SSR (Asiawing) SR250 four stroke imports at $3899: [img]https://www.ssrmotorsports.com/store/dirtbike/sr250s/SR250S.jpg[/img]
Yeah.
That seems pretty expensive given that the SSR (Asiawing) SR250 four stroke imports at $3899:
Gotta pay extra to have it look like a KTM/Husky like all the other fan boys. Great marketing by these guys.
3/17/2018 11:32am Edited Date/Time 3/17/2018 2:12pm
I would wait for the reviews as well. There are plenty of them out there on the same bike direct from the manufacturer (GR7), but most...
I would wait for the reviews as well. There are plenty of them out there on the same bike direct from the manufacturer (GR7), but most of them are in Russian.

For the haters of Chinese things in general, it does seem like deja vu to when Japanese bikes and cars appeared on the scene back in the 50's. When you buy parts for your car (brakes, alternators, batteries, tires, belts, exhausts, etc) you would be surprised how much Chinese stuff you are buying without thinking about it. You will get over it as time goes by and products get better and better. Remember that the Japanese copied everything, but then made them a little better. Many of the Chinese bikes were and are junk because they didn't copy good designs and made them in poor quality. These seem to be a little different and time will tell one way or the other. But they have chosen to copy an Austrian frame and a Japanese motor, that were well liked. Is it too expensive? I'd say yes, but the reason is the low production numbers for that motor. It hasnt been used before in a Chinese bike since it was copied from Yamaha. They have a similar 250F fuel injected enduro bike that has gotten great reviews, but it retailed for a grand less and sold brand new at times for $3000. That motor has been used in a variety of bikes including AJP's and Gas Gas and there are a lot of them out there. It won't be a replacement any time soon for a current race bike, but maybe some day they will get there. Not everyone wants to run out and hand $4000 to someone for their ratted out 18 year old CR250.
Nah. The Japanese burst into motorcycles and within a few years were building insane technology like this early 60s Honda RC that from an engineering standpoint put every motorcycle manufacturer elsewhere on the planet to shame:


Early Japanese metallurgy and materials were relatively poor, and they took criticism for that, but their designs and engineering were pretty much always excellent.

Chinese motorcycles, by contrast, have been in the mass global market for two decades now, and are mostly still just poor copies of those fifty year-old Japanese designs.
Bermworm
Posts
300
Joined
9/3/2013
Location
CA
3/17/2018 1:45pm
Paid just over $6000 CDN for my current ride a 2015 yz 250 bought in the summer of 2016 so new old stock.And as far as I know it was not manufactured by either 9 year olds working for a dollar a day or outright slaves.That is the Chinese advantage a complete and utter absence of human rights.So I'll pass.
Tuna
Posts
1582
Joined
4/3/2017
Location
CA
3/17/2018 3:00pm
Bermworm wrote:
Paid just over $6000 CDN for my current ride a 2015 yz 250 bought in the summer of 2016 so new old stock.And as far as...
Paid just over $6000 CDN for my current ride a 2015 yz 250 bought in the summer of 2016 so new old stock.And as far as I know it was not manufactured by either 9 year olds working for a dollar a day or outright slaves.That is the Chinese advantage a complete and utter absence of human rights.So I'll pass.
It’s not like That anymore and things are changin* quick. Labour cots are going up pretty rapidly in China.
Bermworm
Posts
300
Joined
9/3/2013
Location
CA
3/17/2018 3:09pm
Tuna wrote:
It’s not like That anymore and things are changin* quick. Labour cots are going up pretty rapidly in China.
Wow my bad here I thought it was a one party state that still censored the internet did not allow freedom of movement or association basically a communist autocracy with billionaires (how does that work ?) who just guaranteed their leader his job for life. I apologize.
Fat Fingers
Posts
858
Joined
7/18/2009
Location
Auckland NZ
3/17/2018 5:12pm
I wonder if Mitch Payton has one in a secret workshop. These could be rocket ships with a few mods.
Bry145
Posts
366
Joined
6/12/2013
Location
Bridgeville, PA US
3/18/2018 9:17am
Imagine passing a guy on a new 450 on a 4K Chinese 125.

"Oh the Humanity!"

If it gets more asses on seats and hands on throttles this could be a very good thing. Not everyone can afford the newest, latest, and greatest. Moto will lose many participants in the next 5-10 due to generational turnover, and we need to replace these riders.

That said, personally I'd spend a little more on a new YZ125. But a beginner may be just fine putting around on this 125, as long as parts are available. 4K is within reach of just about anyone.



MB19
Posts
77
Joined
1/20/2014
Location
Leverett, MA US
Fantasy
1616th
3/18/2018 10:48am
A friend of mine bought a CFmoto (Chinese brand) side by side and i was actually pretty impressed with it. It's a decent brand at a more affordable price so there's a market for them. I think if these bikes were high quality in Chinese standards, but were a little bit cheaper, there'd be a demand for them. I love seeing different brands and options of bikes and would to try one just out of curiosity.
Dtat720
Posts
1588
Joined
2/20/2015
Location
Flowood, MS US
3/18/2018 11:53am
kb228 wrote:
As a tool desinger i can say with 100% certainty theyve replaced tools in 13 years. Not that they cost a whole lot. Also you need...
As a tool desinger i can say with 100% certainty theyve replaced tools in 13 years. Not that they cost a whole lot. Also you need to think of rising material & utility costs too.
yz133rider wrote:
You know what i mean though. Massive savings in overhead compared to the 4 strokes development testing etc over the same 13 years and prices climbed...
You know what i mean though. Massive savings in overhead compared to the 4 strokes development testing etc over the same 13 years and prices climbed steadily right along side of them.
Motofinne wrote:
Yeah compare the amount of R&D KTM has put towards their 2 strokes and the prices. The KTM is only a few hundred bucks more expensive...
Yeah compare the amount of R&D KTM has put towards their 2 strokes and the prices.

The KTM is only a few hundred bucks more expensive. I think the SX 125 was 200€ more expensive than the YZ 125 here in Finland.

Either KTM are losing money on their 2 strokes or Yamaha are making a lot from them. Yamaha can put what ever price they want on their bikes, people obviously buy them otherwise they wouldn't sell them for that price. But i'm sure they could drop the price on the YZ 125/250 and still make money on them. That would also attract even more potential buyers.

It's just funny in my mind that so many people see the prices of the bikes as a problem(and i agree) in our sport, yet a manufacturer is basically selling 13 year old bikes for the same price as an other brand sells their 2 year old bikes. It is a pity, the YZ 125 and 250 in their current form could be a fantastic entry level bike.
These posts kill me. The amount of R&D? Have you ever seen japanese 2 stroke boat engines? 2 stroke road bike engines? Fuel injected, direct injected, etc. the japanese brands had KTM technology in the 80’s and 90’s. Difference being, they saw the way of the future with emmissions and didnt waste their time and money bringing it to motocross applications.

KTM in no way brought tech to the market that the other brands hadnt already had. For decades longer than KTM. Kudos to KTM for selling it, people are buying in to it.
1
easydoesit
Posts
101
Joined
12/24/2016
Location
Homestead, FL US
3/18/2018 12:08pm Edited Date/Time 3/18/2018 12:09pm
yz133rider wrote:
You know what i mean though. Massive savings in overhead compared to the 4 strokes development testing etc over the same 13 years and prices climbed...
You know what i mean though. Massive savings in overhead compared to the 4 strokes development testing etc over the same 13 years and prices climbed steadily right along side of them.
Motofinne wrote:
Yeah compare the amount of R&D KTM has put towards their 2 strokes and the prices. The KTM is only a few hundred bucks more expensive...
Yeah compare the amount of R&D KTM has put towards their 2 strokes and the prices.

The KTM is only a few hundred bucks more expensive. I think the SX 125 was 200€ more expensive than the YZ 125 here in Finland.

Either KTM are losing money on their 2 strokes or Yamaha are making a lot from them. Yamaha can put what ever price they want on their bikes, people obviously buy them otherwise they wouldn't sell them for that price. But i'm sure they could drop the price on the YZ 125/250 and still make money on them. That would also attract even more potential buyers.

It's just funny in my mind that so many people see the prices of the bikes as a problem(and i agree) in our sport, yet a manufacturer is basically selling 13 year old bikes for the same price as an other brand sells their 2 year old bikes. It is a pity, the YZ 125 and 250 in their current form could be a fantastic entry level bike.
Dtat720 wrote:
These posts kill me. The amount of R&D? Have you ever seen japanese 2 stroke boat engines? 2 stroke road bike engines? Fuel injected, direct injected...
These posts kill me. The amount of R&D? Have you ever seen japanese 2 stroke boat engines? 2 stroke road bike engines? Fuel injected, direct injected, etc. the japanese brands had KTM technology in the 80’s and 90’s. Difference being, they saw the way of the future with emmissions and didnt waste their time and money bringing it to motocross applications.

KTM in no way brought tech to the market that the other brands hadnt already had. For decades longer than KTM. Kudos to KTM for selling it, people are buying in to it.
The R&D is still present for KTM.
The technology was there from before but it doesn't just integrate itself into the bike by magic.
livehard280
Posts
78
Joined
12/20/2014
Location
Beach Haven, NJ US
3/18/2018 7:13pm
Wait the few extra months to save more $ or pick up a few more overtime shifts before spending 5 + LARGE on one of these. Just my opinion unless ALL the main moto- sites tested this foreign job and stated otherwise.....
yz133rider
Posts
4471
Joined
8/1/2013
Location
Avondale, PA US
3/18/2018 7:30pm
Motofinne wrote:
Yeah compare the amount of R&D KTM has put towards their 2 strokes and the prices. The KTM is only a few hundred bucks more expensive...
Yeah compare the amount of R&D KTM has put towards their 2 strokes and the prices.

The KTM is only a few hundred bucks more expensive. I think the SX 125 was 200€ more expensive than the YZ 125 here in Finland.

Either KTM are losing money on their 2 strokes or Yamaha are making a lot from them. Yamaha can put what ever price they want on their bikes, people obviously buy them otherwise they wouldn't sell them for that price. But i'm sure they could drop the price on the YZ 125/250 and still make money on them. That would also attract even more potential buyers.

It's just funny in my mind that so many people see the prices of the bikes as a problem(and i agree) in our sport, yet a manufacturer is basically selling 13 year old bikes for the same price as an other brand sells their 2 year old bikes. It is a pity, the YZ 125 and 250 in their current form could be a fantastic entry level bike.
Dtat720 wrote:
These posts kill me. The amount of R&D? Have you ever seen japanese 2 stroke boat engines? 2 stroke road bike engines? Fuel injected, direct injected...
These posts kill me. The amount of R&D? Have you ever seen japanese 2 stroke boat engines? 2 stroke road bike engines? Fuel injected, direct injected, etc. the japanese brands had KTM technology in the 80’s and 90’s. Difference being, they saw the way of the future with emmissions and didnt waste their time and money bringing it to motocross applications.

KTM in no way brought tech to the market that the other brands hadnt already had. For decades longer than KTM. Kudos to KTM for selling it, people are buying in to it.
easydoesit wrote:
The R&D is still present for KTM.
The technology was there from before but it doesn't just integrate itself into the bike by magic.
Still is r&d. U have any idea how much durability testing they do and testing with every change?

They havent changed a damn thing of importance in over a decade and you think its remotely as close to ktm? Pass.
63mark
Posts
363
Joined
7/31/2014
Location
Oosterwolde NL
3/27/2018 1:57pm
sowers711 wrote:
Looks pretty good to me.[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2018/03/27/252154/s1200_C4DF29AD_98B9_43F7_AEA6_027FBDA4213B.jpg[/img]
Looks pretty good to me.

It ain't all about the looksWhistling
ATKpilot99
Posts
9820
Joined
4/13/2010
Location
Lake Geneva, WI US
3/27/2018 2:03pm
sowers711 wrote:
Looks pretty good to me.[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2018/03/27/252154/s1200_C4DF29AD_98B9_43F7_AEA6_027FBDA4213B.jpg[/img]
Looks pretty good to me.

63mark wrote:
It ain't all about the looksWhistling
True . And they need to design something with its own identity instead of carbon copying bodywork etc.
sowers711
Posts
77
Joined
5/20/2017
Location
Tecumseh, MI US
Fantasy
790th
3/27/2018 2:43pm
sowers711 wrote:
Looks pretty good to me.[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2018/03/27/252154/s1200_C4DF29AD_98B9_43F7_AEA6_027FBDA4213B.jpg[/img]
Looks pretty good to me.

63mark wrote:
It ain't all about the looksWhistling
ATKpilot99 wrote:
True . And they need to design something with its own identity instead of carbon copying bodywork etc.
Both true, but they're getting better. I'd at least like to try one. Maybe it will surprise people, might be a decent bike.
1
OldYZRider1
Posts
848
Joined
7/10/2009
Location
Bushnell, IL US
3/27/2018 5:54pm
From what I've been reading about the DT230 engine it appears its based on the 200cc motors going clear back to the IT200 built in the '80's. I have read that the later versions used in the WR200 and Blaster had variations where some used case reeds and possibly windowed pistons? I wonder how this engine is done. As a 200cc lover this bikes piquing my interest. Is this a KTM 200cc (or KDX200) wannabe? Pretty big shoes to fill!
Jrewing
Posts
2865
Joined
1/4/2014
Location
AU
3/27/2018 6:12pm
Chingers have no pride in the job but only to the dollar. Japanese have pride in the job/company, though that is being watered away.
China manufacturing can work if there are outsiders on top of QA, but left to their own devices Well good luck riders.
make1go
Posts
905
Joined
2/3/2018
Location
BF
3/27/2018 6:34pm
Katoomey wrote:
the difference between a Japanese product and a Chinese product is like the difference between a plastic spork and a table-set of fine silver. They don't...
the difference between a Japanese product and a Chinese product is like the difference between a plastic spork and a table-set of fine silver. They don't even belong in the same conversation.
nytsmaC wrote:
You think this thing will be any worse than RM or KX build quality from 20 years ago? We all bought them even though they were...
You think this thing will be any worse than RM or KX build quality from 20 years ago? We all bought them even though they were junk.
lol no they werent built as well as honda and yamahas but hardly "junk".

it remains to be seen what these chinese bikes are like..
make1go
Posts
905
Joined
2/3/2018
Location
BF
3/27/2018 6:39pm
From what I've been reading about the DT230 engine it appears its based on the 200cc motors going clear back to the IT200 built in the...
From what I've been reading about the DT230 engine it appears its based on the 200cc motors going clear back to the IT200 built in the '80's. I have read that the later versions used in the WR200 and Blaster had variations where some used case reeds and possibly windowed pistons? I wonder how this engine is done. As a 200cc lover this bikes piquing my interest. Is this a KTM 200cc (or KDX200) wannabe? Pretty big shoes to fill!
ive got a kx125, klx150, kdx200,kdx 220, kdx250, wr250f,yz250f and just sold my yz450f..
my fave fun bike to ride is the 220..
just chiming in on your kdx 200 mention
big natty
Posts
68
Joined
4/9/2016
Location
Frederick, MD US
9/16/2018 8:55pm
They bought all the yamaha 230 cc motors , i forget the model. But there real yamaha motors

Post a reply to: Ready for a Chinese 250 2-Stroke MX'er?

The Latest