Racerx: Tickle in Limbo

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1/2/2019 10:45 AM
Edited Date/Time: 1/2/2019 10:45 AM

Could someone clear this up? Why would Tickle be in Limbo?

1) he took in a banned substance
2) he failed two tests that proved he took in the banned sunbstance
3) he is banned for 4 years

How is he in Limbo and why would he act like he doesn’t know what’s going on?

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1/2/2019 11:05 AM

Essentially hes arrested and does not have a court date.

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1/2/2019 11:05 AM
Edited Date/Time: 1/3/2019 2:53 AM

1) How and why the banned substance is in the athletes system matters.
2) They test the same collection twice (and split it into an a/b sample) to confirm results. He failed one test.
3) How and why affects the punishments.

Also what kb228 said.

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1/2/2019 11:07 AM

because he has not been told his penalty time yet.

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1/2/2019 11:08 AM

kb228 wrote:

Essentially hes arrested and does not have a court date.

They already declared him guilty, he wasn’t invited to the trial because he signed that right away when he purchased and signed for his Pro license!

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1/2/2019 11:08 AM

Payup_199 wrote:

because he has not been told his penalty time yet.

They told him 4 years, it’s in the documents

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1/2/2019 11:10 AM
Edited Date/Time: 1/2/2019 11:13 AM

250premixer wrote:

1) How and why the banned substance is in the athletes system matters.
2) They test the same collection twice (and split it into an a/b sample) to confirm results. He failed one test.
3) How and why affects the punishments.

Also what kb228 said.

I think you are wrong in all three points.

It doesn’t seem like they care how or why, just that it’s there! These testing companies were employed so as to remove all emotion from all of the decisions. It is a cold heartless process.

I’m not sure why people are expecting it to employ simpathy, concern or care.

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1/2/2019 11:13 AM

kb228 wrote:

Essentially hes arrested and does not have a court date.

kkawboy14 wrote:

They already declared him guilty, he wasn’t invited to the trial because he signed that right away when he purchased and signed for his Pro license!

Ok but his suspension start date hasnt been set.

Its like he was given a 4 year suspension but right now its 4 years and 9 months.

Make sense yet?

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1/2/2019 11:18 AM

kb228 wrote:

Essentially hes arrested and does not have a court date.

kkawboy14 wrote:

They already declared him guilty, he wasn’t invited to the trial because he signed that right away when he purchased and signed for his Pro license!

kb228 wrote:

Ok but his suspension start date hasnt been set.

Its like he was given a 4 year suspension but right now its 4 years and 9 months.

Make sense yet?

I get exactly what your saying but I believe it is in writing when it started, which is probably at the race he failed. Maybe somebody who knows could tell us what the drug testing program says as to when it started.
My “guess” is that the testing people know he knows when it started and he knows when it started.

He probably wants a hearing to dispute the fact he didn’t take it......they don’t care!

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1/2/2019 11:35 AM

kkawboy14 wrote:

Could someone clear this up? Why would Tickle be in Limbo?

1) he took in a banned substance
2) he failed two tests that proved he took in the banned sunbstance
3) he is banned for 4 years

How is he in Limbo and why would he act like he doesn’t know what’s going on?

You're incorrect with #3

He hasn't been told his punishment or even been given a hearing date.

that is why he is "in limbo". Is that so hard to understand?

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1/2/2019 11:42 AM

This is the first time I have heard 4 years.

I don’t think it is unfair to want to know how long your punishment is. This is his how he makes a living. Knowing his sentence would help him determine if he will ever race professionally again... or start looking for employment elsewhere.

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1/2/2019 11:43 AM

kkawboy14 wrote:

Could someone clear this up? Why would Tickle be in Limbo?

1) he took in a banned substance
2) he failed two tests that proved he took in the banned sunbstance
3) he is banned for 4 years

How is he in Limbo and why would he act like he doesn’t know what’s going on?

MelonFan123 wrote:

You're incorrect with #3

He hasn't been told his punishment or even been given a hearing date.

that is why he is "in limbo". Is that so hard to understand?

Yeah he's still "provisionally" suspended.

4 years is a complete joke. They use that in olympic sports to ensure that a cheating athlete would also miss the following olympics. The equivalent for that in Supercross would be 12 months...

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1/2/2019 11:44 AM

Dumbgeon.

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1/2/2019 11:53 AM

250premixer wrote:

1) How and why the banned substance is in the athletes system matters.
2) They test the same collection twice (and split it into an a/b sample) to confirm results. He failed one test.
3) How and why affects the punishments.

Also what kb228 said.

Interested how you prove no1? Even if it’s in a supplement there is no way of proving it wasn’t intentionally ingested?

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1/2/2019 11:56 AM

250premixer wrote:

1) How and why the banned substance is in the athletes system matters.
2) They test the same collection twice (and split it into an a/b sample) to confirm results. He failed one test.
3) How and why affects the punishments.

Also what kb228 said.

Incorrect. The A and B sample were both positive.

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1/2/2019 11:58 AM

250premixer wrote:

1) How and why the banned substance is in the athletes system matters.
2) They test the same collection twice (and split it into an a/b sample) to confirm results. He failed one test.
3) How and why affects the punishments.

Also what kb228 said.

Squirrelings wrote:

Incorrect. The A and B sample were both positive.

If i'm understanding him correctly, he's saying that the A sample & the B sample are the same piss split into two different cups.

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1/2/2019 12:17 PM
Edited Date/Time: 1/2/2019 12:17 PM

its really a stupid shame...and really letting the FIM rule in the usa...just a big F..en joke

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1/2/2019 12:27 PM

250premixer wrote:

1) How and why the banned substance is in the athletes system matters.
2) They test the same collection twice (and split it into an a/b sample) to confirm results. He failed one test.
3) How and why affects the punishments.

Also what kb228 said.

Squirrelings wrote:

Incorrect. The A and B sample were both positive.

Donovan759 wrote:

If i'm understanding him correctly, he's saying that the A sample & the B sample are the same piss split into two different cups.

Correct, it is the same piss in 2 cups....

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1/2/2019 12:34 PM
Edited Date/Time: 1/2/2019 7:28 PM

They are probably leaving him hanging and giving him the middle finger, because they know he will just go race in Canada otherwise.

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1/3/2019 2:26 AM

kkawboy14 wrote:

Could someone clear this up? Why would Tickle be in Limbo?

1) he took in a banned substance
2) he failed two tests that proved he took in the banned sunbstance
3) he is banned for 4 years

How is he in Limbo and why would he act like he doesn’t know what’s going on?

JS7 failed and didn't get 4 years. So the "3) he is banned for 4 years" isn't so cut and dry.

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1/3/2019 3:16 AM

kkawboy14 wrote:

Could someone clear this up? Why would Tickle be in Limbo?

1) he took in a banned substance
2) he failed two tests that proved he took in the banned sunbstance
3) he is banned for 4 years

How is he in Limbo and why would he act like he doesn’t know what’s going on?

racingfortheson wrote:

JS7 failed and didn't get 4 years. So the "3) he is banned for 4 years" isn't so cut and dry.

Stewart got a break because it was from his Doctor and he just failed to get approval, so he got the minimum 2 years.

So far Tickle has Not said that he used a product that was contaminated or that he has proof it was contaminated. So he has a 4 year suspension, he knows he has a 4 year suspension, it’s all written in the Drug Testing Program. I’m not even a Lawyer and I was able to figure it out in 10 minutes.

A “hearing” does nothing for him.

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1/3/2019 3:21 AM

kkawboy14 wrote:

Could someone clear this up? Why would Tickle be in Limbo?

1) he took in a banned substance
2) he failed two tests that proved he took in the banned sunbstance
3) he is banned for 4 years

How is he in Limbo and why would he act like he doesn’t know what’s going on?

racingfortheson wrote:

JS7 failed and didn't get 4 years. So the "3) he is banned for 4 years" isn't so cut and dry.

kkawboy14 wrote:

Stewart got a break because it was from his Doctor and he just failed to get approval, so he got the minimum 2 years.

So far Tickle has Not said that he used a product that was contaminated or that he has proof it was contaminated. So he has a 4 year suspension, he knows he has a 4 year suspension, it’s all written in the Drug Testing Program. I’m not even a Lawyer and I was able to figure it out in 10 minutes.

A “hearing” does nothing for him.

O, so you're saying there are things that can change if it's 4 years or not. Seems like that is what everyone is saying and Tickle just wants to know his punishment. So he can figure out what to do next. Not that hard to understand, but some people just like to stir the pot.

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1/3/2019 3:34 AM
Edited Date/Time: 1/3/2019 3:39 AM

racingfortheson wrote:

JS7 failed and didn't get 4 years. So the "3) he is banned for 4 years" isn't so cut and dry.

kkawboy14 wrote:

Stewart got a break because it was from his Doctor and he just failed to get approval, so he got the minimum 2 years.

So far Tickle has Not said that he used a product that was contaminated or that he has proof it was contaminated. So he has a 4 year suspension, he knows he has a 4 year suspension, it’s all written in the Drug Testing Program. I’m not even a Lawyer and I was able to figure it out in 10 minutes.

A “hearing” does nothing for him.

racingfortheson wrote:

O, so you're saying there are things that can change if it's 4 years or not. Seems like that is what everyone is saying and Tickle just wants to know his punishment. So he can figure out what to do next. Not that hard to understand, but some people just like to stir the pot.

I’m not trying to stir a pot I’m just trying to help people understand the reality.

Tickle has stated he didn’t take that product into his body. If that’s his position, he’s out for 4 years.

He has 1 shot at 2 years, produce the product that he ingested and prove it was contaminated. He has not publicly stated yet that he has this proof. In fact he has stated publicly he has no idea how it got in his system.

He doesn’t need a hearing for this to go forward, he needs his lawyers to forward the Proof of product and contamination. If they don’t. He’s out 4 years from the race he got popped at!

He’s not in Limbo

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1/3/2019 4:23 AM

My question is if this was a big FIM name like say Hearlings I’m willing to bet things would be completely different. The complete lack of communication is redicous especially after hearing how much WADA worked with the UFC in the recent John Jones case. How many times has that guy failed now? Listen to the Joe Rogan podcast with Jeff Noitzky. Total communication between them and WADA. It sounds like Tickle can’t even get an answer.

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1/3/2019 5:48 AM

kkawboy14 wrote:

Stewart got a break because it was from his Doctor and he just failed to get approval, so he got the minimum 2 years.

So far Tickle has Not said that he used a product that was contaminated or that he has proof it was contaminated. So he has a 4 year suspension, he knows he has a 4 year suspension, it’s all written in the Drug Testing Program. I’m not even a Lawyer and I was able to figure it out in 10 minutes.

A “hearing” does nothing for him.

racingfortheson wrote:

O, so you're saying there are things that can change if it's 4 years or not. Seems like that is what everyone is saying and Tickle just wants to know his punishment. So he can figure out what to do next. Not that hard to understand, but some people just like to stir the pot.

kkawboy14 wrote:

I’m not trying to stir a pot I’m just trying to help people understand the reality.

Tickle has stated he didn’t take that product into his body. If that’s his position, he’s out for 4 years.

He has 1 shot at 2 years, produce the product that he ingested and prove it was contaminated. He has not publicly stated yet that he has this proof. In fact he has stated publicly he has no idea how it got in his system.

He doesn’t need a hearing for this to go forward, he needs his lawyers to forward the Proof of product and contamination. If they don’t. He’s out 4 years from the race he got popped at!

He’s not in Limbo

I don't think any of us are in a position to know what his lawyers/representatives have given to the FIM/WADA, so any assertion that this is a slam dunk is pure speculation. From the sound of it, both you and I got our law degrees from the same school, the University of Google, and they're worth about 10% of what we paid for them.

If this were as cut and dry as you state, Tickle would no longer be provisionally suspended. He'd have a full ruling with a proper start and end date.

I do somewhat agree with the poster who said that this would probably be moving faster and more definitively if it were someone like Herlings. That's not because he's a GP guy, but simply because of the celebrity factor and his ability to afford higher priced representation.

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1/3/2019 6:56 AM
Edited Date/Time: 1/3/2019 6:58 AM

racingfortheson wrote:

O, so you're saying there are things that can change if it's 4 years or not. Seems like that is what everyone is saying and Tickle just wants to know his punishment. So he can figure out what to do next. Not that hard to understand, but some people just like to stir the pot.

kkawboy14 wrote:

I’m not trying to stir a pot I’m just trying to help people understand the reality.

Tickle has stated he didn’t take that product into his body. If that’s his position, he’s out for 4 years.

He has 1 shot at 2 years, produce the product that he ingested and prove it was contaminated. He has not publicly stated yet that he has this proof. In fact he has stated publicly he has no idea how it got in his system.

He doesn’t need a hearing for this to go forward, he needs his lawyers to forward the Proof of product and contamination. If they don’t. He’s out 4 years from the race he got popped at!

He’s not in Limbo

APLMAN99 wrote:

I don't think any of us are in a position to know what his lawyers/representatives have given to the FIM/WADA, so any assertion that this is a slam dunk is pure speculation. From the sound of it, both you and I got our law degrees from the same school, the University of Google, and they're worth about 10% of what we paid for them.

If this were as cut and dry as you state, Tickle would no longer be provisionally suspended. He'd have a full ruling with a proper start and end date.

I do somewhat agree with the poster who said that this would probably be moving faster and more definitively if it were someone like Herlings. That's not because he's a GP guy, but simply because of the celebrity factor and his ability to afford higher priced representation.

I got my law degree from WalMart smile

I’m just going off of what he has publicly stated and the Drug Program that he agreed to.

It wouldn’t harm his case in anyway for him to publicly say “I have the proof this particular product was tainted and my lawyers have made application for relief of the 4 year stated penalty, this is why I’m upset I haven’t received a hearing”. That is his only shot at relief according to the program.

But to say he’s upset he Doesn’t know how long his penalty is because he hasn’t got a hearing yet seems a waste of energy.

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1/3/2019 8:22 AM

Stewart was issued a 16 month suspension, not 2 years. The ruling came out 8 months after the failed drug test. It has been nearly 11 months since Broc failed the drug test.

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1/3/2019 5:17 PM

kkawboy14 wrote:

Could someone clear this up? Why would Tickle be in Limbo?

1) he took in a banned substance
2) he failed two tests that proved he took in the banned sunbstance
3) he is banned for 4 years

How is he in Limbo and why would he act like he doesn’t know what’s going on?

MelonFan123 wrote:

You're incorrect with #3

He hasn't been told his punishment or even been given a hearing date.

that is why he is "in limbo". Is that so hard to understand?

crusty_xx wrote:

Yeah he's still "provisionally" suspended.

4 years is a complete joke. They use that in olympic sports to ensure that a cheating athlete would also miss the following olympics. The equivalent for that in Supercross would be 12 months...

Agree, 4yrs is too much. I was thinking about this situation today. One thing thats never really been discussed is there is no support for the riders in these kinda situations. In BTs case KTM just turned their backs, Baker gives 0.0 fucks, AMA hasn't stepped in, nor has Feld or any sponsors...

I remember Pourcel talking years ago about his attitude towards racing when there is no money/support and how he wasn't going to line up if he wasn't going to get paid well. The risks for these guys are astronomical vs most other sports, and when you see what is happening to Tickle it makes you think that many of the sponsors(not saying all sponsors) out there really don't give AF about riders...

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1/3/2019 6:30 PM

250premixer wrote:

1) How and why the banned substance is in the athletes system matters.
2) They test the same collection twice (and split it into an a/b sample) to confirm results. He failed one test.
3) How and why affects the punishments.

Also what kb228 said.

Andy_Greenney wrote:

Interested how you prove no1? Even if it’s in a supplement there is no way of proving it wasn’t intentionally ingested?

He could provide a sample of supplements that he has taken. Then wada would test those to see if the banned substances are in that supplement. Then wada would go buy the same directly off the shelf and test that as well. Many times these supplants are tainted when being made with ingredients that are not supposed to be in them. If the supplements both came back positive for the same thing that was in Brocs system it would prove it was unintentional. This happens very often with over the counter supplements.

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