Race fuel with high compression piston

kyle629
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kyle629
Edited Date/Time 3/23/2019 9:19am
I have a 2017 Kx450f I just did a top end in it with a wiseco high compression piston 13:8:1 and stock is 12:3:1 and now when I have the bike under a load in 3rd or 4th gear it pings pretty noticeable (at full throttle) for about 2 seconds. I run 93 pump gas but was told it could be detonation. Need help!
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zehn
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zehn 3/21/2019 6:55pm
3/21/2019 6:55pm Edited Date/Time 3/21/2019 6:55pm
I’d be running 110 personally. Detonation is bad news
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motoracer58
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motoracer58 3/21/2019 6:56pm
3/21/2019 6:56pm
definitely need to be running higher octane, you can get away with mixing 50/50 of pump and something like c12 or ms109 if you wanted to.
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kyle629
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kyle629 3/21/2019 6:58pm
3/21/2019 6:58pm
Do you think that a big enough jump in piston size to make it ping ?
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barnett468
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barnett468 3/21/2019 7:03pm
3/21/2019 7:03pm Edited Date/Time 3/21/2019 7:07pm
kyle629 wrote:
Do you think that a big enough jump in piston size to make it ping ?
Why did you install a higher compression piston?

It is detonation, and yes that much increase in compression is more than enough to make it ping.

You should adjust your fuel and possibly your timing settings as it will run leaner with more compression because the higher compression increases the engines volumetric efficiency.

If you don't mind running ethanol, VP street blaze or Sunoco may cure the problem, but the jetting and possibly the timing should still be set to the optimum level for the fuel used and the higher compression etc.

.
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kyle629
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kyle629 3/21/2019 7:05pm
3/21/2019 7:05pm
Ok I’m going to buy some 110 tomorrow and try that hopefully that’s it and if I can end up running half and half with 93 I will.
kyle629
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kyle629 3/21/2019 7:15pm
3/21/2019 7:15pm
kyle629 wrote:
Do you think that a big enough jump in piston size to make it ping ?
barnett468 wrote:
Why did you install a higher compression piston? It is detonation, and yes that much increase in compression is more than enough to make it ping...
Why did you install a higher compression piston?

It is detonation, and yes that much increase in compression is more than enough to make it ping.

You should adjust your fuel and possibly your timing settings as it will run leaner with more compression because the higher compression increases the engines volumetric efficiency.

If you don't mind running ethanol, VP street blaze or Sunoco may cure the problem, but the jetting and possibly the timing should still be set to the optimum level for the fuel used and the higher compression etc.

.
Didn’t see the first part.. just wanted a little bump in the motor performance
barnett468
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barnett468 3/21/2019 7:24pm
3/21/2019 7:24pm Edited Date/Time 3/21/2019 7:24pm
kyle629 wrote:
Didn’t see the first part.. just wanted a little bump in the motor performance
What is he elevation where you ride?

It is best not to mix ethanol with gasoline/fuel containing MTBE if possible, especially if you are in an area where there is a reasonably high possibility of water getting into the fuel as the alcohol absorbs it from the atmosphere.
..
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kyle629
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kyle629 3/21/2019 7:27pm
3/21/2019 7:27pm
Low elevation I’m Ohio . So humid most of the riding year
mhog
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mhog 3/21/2019 7:33pm
3/21/2019 7:33pm
Typically with a high compression piston you need a minimum of 100 octane. Depending on how much you ride, you might want a non oxygenated fuel like vp 110 or Sunoco 110. As others suggested you can mix it as long as you maintain around 100 octane.
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barnett468
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barnett468 3/21/2019 7:34pm
3/21/2019 7:34pm Edited Date/Time 3/21/2019 7:34pm
kyle629 wrote:
Low elevation I’m Ohio . So humid most of the riding year
I really would not mix the two then, also, since you are wanting more power, if it was me, i would run VP MS109.
.
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Subotai
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Subotai 3/21/2019 7:43pm
3/21/2019 7:43pm
kyle629 wrote:
Do you think that a big enough jump in piston size to make it ping ?
barnett468 wrote:
Why did you install a higher compression piston? It is detonation, and yes that much increase in compression is more than enough to make it ping...
Why did you install a higher compression piston?

It is detonation, and yes that much increase in compression is more than enough to make it ping.

You should adjust your fuel and possibly your timing settings as it will run leaner with more compression because the higher compression increases the engines volumetric efficiency.

If you don't mind running ethanol, VP street blaze or Sunoco may cure the problem, but the jetting and possibly the timing should still be set to the optimum level for the fuel used and the higher compression etc.

.
Sunoco 110 has ethanol? I was under the impression it didn't but never officially checked.
barnett468
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barnett468 3/21/2019 7:48pm
3/21/2019 7:48pm Edited Date/Time 3/21/2019 7:49pm
Subotai wrote:
Sunoco 110 has ethanol? I was under the impression it didn't but never officially checked.
I was not referring to Sunoco 110. I was referring to mixing any two fuels where one contains ethanol and the other contains MTBE. Sunoco 110 is leaded and is highly unlikely to have either MTBE or alcohol because adding either to leaded fuel would seem redundant and unnecessary, but a quick call to their tech line should get you the answer.

.
barnett468
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barnett468 3/21/2019 7:57pm
3/21/2019 7:57pm Edited Date/Time 3/21/2019 8:00pm
kyle629 wrote:
I have a 2017 Kx450f I just did a top end in it with a wiseco high compression piston 13:8:1 and stock is 12:3:1 and now...
I have a 2017 Kx450f I just did a top end in it with a wiseco high compression piston 13:8:1 and stock is 12:3:1 and now when I have the bike under a load in 3rd or 4th gear it pings pretty noticeable (at full throttle) for about 2 seconds. I run 93 pump gas but was told it could be detonation. Need help!
Just a heads up, your thread may get bombarded soon with numerous internet fuel "experts" and "professional" engine builders etc, posting inaccurate "information" and turning it into a novel length fiasco, and making it difficult to tell fact from fiction, so it can be helpful to make a list of questions you might have and ask the fuel mfg anything you are not certain of.

.
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KDXGarage
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KDXGarage 3/21/2019 10:26pm
3/21/2019 10:26pm
higher octane gasoline is now required by the engine
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SLAPAHO
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SLAPAHO 3/21/2019 10:47pm
3/21/2019 10:47pm
kyle629 wrote:
I have a 2017 Kx450f I just did a top end in it with a wiseco high compression piston 13:8:1 and stock is 12:3:1 and now...
I have a 2017 Kx450f I just did a top end in it with a wiseco high compression piston 13:8:1 and stock is 12:3:1 and now when I have the bike under a load in 3rd or 4th gear it pings pretty noticeable (at full throttle) for about 2 seconds. I run 93 pump gas but was told it could be detonation. Need help!
barnett468 wrote:
Just a heads up, your thread may get bombarded soon with numerous internet fuel "experts" and "professional" engine builders etc, posting inaccurate "information" and turning it...
Just a heads up, your thread may get bombarded soon with numerous internet fuel "experts" and "professional" engine builders etc, posting inaccurate "information" and turning it into a novel length fiasco, and making it difficult to tell fact from fiction, so it can be helpful to make a list of questions you might have and ask the fuel mfg anything you are not certain of.

.
too late....
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Underground 3/22/2019 12:59am
3/22/2019 12:59am
I think you should start seeing a well credentialed tuner in your area. It's going to save you money and get a better outcome in the long run. As it is you really should strip the top end and see what damage you've already caused. Detonation kills engines fast.
kb228
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kb228 3/22/2019 2:34am
3/22/2019 2:34am
Im also in ohio. both my kx450 and kx250 have cp HC pistons and 93 runs just fine. You sure youre just not running lean?
barnett468
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barnett468 3/22/2019 5:02am
3/22/2019 5:02am Edited Date/Time 3/22/2019 5:03am
kyle629 wrote:
I have a 2017 Kx450f I just did a top end in it with a wiseco high compression piston 13:8:1 and stock is 12:3:1 and now...
I have a 2017 Kx450f I just did a top end in it with a wiseco high compression piston 13:8:1 and stock is 12:3:1 and now when I have the bike under a load in 3rd or 4th gear it pings pretty noticeable (at full throttle) for about 2 seconds. I run 93 pump gas but was told it could be detonation. Need help!
barnett468 wrote:
Just a heads up, your thread may get bombarded soon with numerous internet fuel "experts" and "professional" engine builders etc, posting inaccurate "information" and turning it...
Just a heads up, your thread may get bombarded soon with numerous internet fuel "experts" and "professional" engine builders etc, posting inaccurate "information" and turning it into a novel length fiasco, and making it difficult to tell fact from fiction, so it can be helpful to make a list of questions you might have and ask the fuel mfg anything you are not certain of.

.
SLAPAHO wrote:
too late....
Well kyle629, unfortunately for you, here"s the first of the people I mentioned, lol.
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Mort443
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Mort443 3/22/2019 5:06am
3/22/2019 5:06am
kyle629 wrote:
Do you think that a big enough jump in piston size to make it ping ?
barnett468 wrote:
Why did you install a higher compression piston? It is detonation, and yes that much increase in compression is more than enough to make it ping...
Why did you install a higher compression piston?

It is detonation, and yes that much increase in compression is more than enough to make it ping.

You should adjust your fuel and possibly your timing settings as it will run leaner with more compression because the higher compression increases the engines volumetric efficiency.

If you don't mind running ethanol, VP street blaze or Sunoco may cure the problem, but the jetting and possibly the timing should still be set to the optimum level for the fuel used and the higher compression etc.

.
What kinda Main jet should he run in that 2017?
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Mort443
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Mort443 3/22/2019 5:09am
3/22/2019 5:09am
kyle629 wrote:
I have a 2017 Kx450f I just did a top end in it with a wiseco high compression piston 13:8:1 and stock is 12:3:1 and now...
I have a 2017 Kx450f I just did a top end in it with a wiseco high compression piston 13:8:1 and stock is 12:3:1 and now when I have the bike under a load in 3rd or 4th gear it pings pretty noticeable (at full throttle) for about 2 seconds. I run 93 pump gas but was told it could be detonation. Need help!
Run 93 pump and don’t worry about it. If you don’t believe me e mail any big name engine builder.
5
barnett468
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barnett468 3/22/2019 5:19am
3/22/2019 5:19am Edited Date/Time 3/22/2019 5:22am
kyle629 wrote:
Do you think that a big enough jump in piston size to make it ping ?
barnett468 wrote:
Why did you install a higher compression piston? It is detonation, and yes that much increase in compression is more than enough to make it ping...
Why did you install a higher compression piston?

It is detonation, and yes that much increase in compression is more than enough to make it ping.

You should adjust your fuel and possibly your timing settings as it will run leaner with more compression because the higher compression increases the engines volumetric efficiency.

If you don't mind running ethanol, VP street blaze or Sunoco may cure the problem, but the jetting and possibly the timing should still be set to the optimum level for the fuel used and the higher compression etc.

.
Mort443 wrote:
What kinda Main jet should he run in that 2017?
Well kyle629, here"s another one, so it looks like you will be needing to call the fuel mfg's a bit sooner than I thought, loll.
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barnett468
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barnett468 3/22/2019 5:22am
3/22/2019 5:22am
kyle629 wrote:
I have a 2017 Kx450f I just did a top end in it with a wiseco high compression piston 13:8:1 and stock is 12:3:1 and now...
I have a 2017 Kx450f I just did a top end in it with a wiseco high compression piston 13:8:1 and stock is 12:3:1 and now when I have the bike under a load in 3rd or 4th gear it pings pretty noticeable (at full throttle) for about 2 seconds. I run 93 pump gas but was told it could be detonation. Need help!
Mort443 wrote:
Run 93 pump and don’t worry about it. If you don’t believe me e mail any big name engine builder.
Well kyle629, it looks like this is your unlucky day, cuz this one makes it 3 in a row, lol.
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kyle629
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kyle629 3/22/2019 5:24am
3/22/2019 5:24am
Yea for those Of you that told me just to run 93 that’s what is in the bike now and it’s pinging therefore I have a problem and I can’t just run it trust me I wish it had been that easy
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barnett468
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barnett468 3/22/2019 5:33am
3/22/2019 5:33am Edited Date/Time 3/22/2019 5:35am
kyle629 wrote:
Yea for those Of you that told me just to run 93 that’s what is in the bike now and it’s pinging therefore I have a...
Yea for those Of you that told me just to run 93 that’s what is in the bike now and it’s pinging therefore I have a problem and I can’t just run it trust me I wish it had been that easy
Another possibility is to try an octane booster. I can suggest a couple of the most effective ones if you want. This may not be ideal either, but it may be less expensive and a little more convenient for you., however, some of the boosters are mtbe, which I would be hesitant to mix with ethanol, especially in your case due to the humidity.
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kb228
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kb228 3/22/2019 8:32am
3/22/2019 8:32am
Everytime someone asks about gasoline, barnetts ass comes in and turns the thread into a pissing match.

OP wants to stop the pinging. Hes either running lean or needs ~100-110 octane gas. Stop making it more complicated than it needs to be. Fuckin hell dude.
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ob
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ob 3/22/2019 8:38am
3/22/2019 8:38am
Basic shit, yes you need more octane. For a start.
barnett468
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barnett468 3/22/2019 8:40am
3/22/2019 8:40am Edited Date/Time 3/22/2019 8:50am
kb228 wrote:
Everytime someone asks about gasoline, barnetts ass comes in and turns the thread into a pissing match. OP wants to stop the pinging. Hes either running...
Everytime someone asks about gasoline, barnetts ass comes in and turns the thread into a pissing match.

OP wants to stop the pinging. Hes either running lean or needs ~100-110 octane gas. Stop making it more complicated than it needs to be. Fuckin hell dude.
Well kyle629, here's the 5th one, lol.

"barnetts ass"

You like sniffing what?


"turns the thread into a pissing match."

I simply post facts and/or logic and correct some other peoples posts that I know are inaccurate. it is in FACT you, and just a few others that turn things into a laughable sh_t show, unfortunately at an op's expense.


"OP wants to stop the pinging. Hes either running lean or needs ~100-110 octane gas."

ummmm...I already basically stated the same thing, but thanks for repeating it and being correct for once, lol.



.
.

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kb228
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kb228 3/22/2019 8:51am
3/22/2019 8:51am
kb228 wrote:
Everytime someone asks about gasoline, barnetts ass comes in and turns the thread into a pissing match. OP wants to stop the pinging. Hes either running...
Everytime someone asks about gasoline, barnetts ass comes in and turns the thread into a pissing match.

OP wants to stop the pinging. Hes either running lean or needs ~100-110 octane gas. Stop making it more complicated than it needs to be. Fuckin hell dude.
barnett468 wrote:
Well kyle629, here's the 5th one, lol. "barnetts ass" You like sniffing what? "turns the thread into a pissing match." I simply post facts and/or logic...
Well kyle629, here's the 5th one, lol.

"barnetts ass"

You like sniffing what?


"turns the thread into a pissing match."

I simply post facts and/or logic and correct some other peoples posts that I know are inaccurate. it is in FACT you, and just a few others that turn things into a laughable sh_t show, unfortunately at an op's expense.


"OP wants to stop the pinging. Hes either running lean or needs ~100-110 octane gas."

ummmm...I already basically stated the same thing, but thanks for repeating it and being correct for once, lol.



.
.

You told him to look into his jetting. That tells everything all of us need to know about you.
5
barnett468
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barnett468 3/22/2019 9:04am
3/22/2019 9:04am Edited Date/Time 3/22/2019 9:15am
kb228 wrote:
Everytime someone asks about gasoline, barnetts ass comes in and turns the thread into a pissing match. OP wants to stop the pinging. Hes either running...
Everytime someone asks about gasoline, barnetts ass comes in and turns the thread into a pissing match.

OP wants to stop the pinging. Hes either running lean or needs ~100-110 octane gas. Stop making it more complicated than it needs to be. Fuckin hell dude.
barnett468 wrote:
Well kyle629, here's the 5th one, lol. "barnetts ass" You like sniffing what? "turns the thread into a pissing match." I simply post facts and/or logic...
Well kyle629, here's the 5th one, lol.

"barnetts ass"

You like sniffing what?


"turns the thread into a pissing match."

I simply post facts and/or logic and correct some other peoples posts that I know are inaccurate. it is in FACT you, and just a few others that turn things into a laughable sh_t show, unfortunately at an op's expense.


"OP wants to stop the pinging. Hes either running lean or needs ~100-110 octane gas."

ummmm...I already basically stated the same thing, but thanks for repeating it and being correct for once, lol.



.
.

kb228 wrote:
You told him to look into his jetting. That tells everything all of us need to know about you.
"You told him to look into his jetting."

Yup, and I use that as a generic term even when referring to fuel injection systems which I know a fair bit about, but certainly not everything. I also obviously could have suggested that he set his "fuel curve", or "AFR" (Air Fuel Ratio) via the computer on his bike etc, so it is merely a matter of semantics, but since you are obviously an ass, you want to do nothing other than try to appear as though you know more than others instead of simply trying to help someone just for the sake of helping them, but that's an understandable characteristic in people that have a frail and needy ego like you, and a few others here obviously do, lol.


"That tells everything all of us need to know about you."

WRONG AGAIN, as you may, or may be able to (depending on your level of intelligence which appears to be marginal at best) deduce from my comment above, you made an ASSUMPTION and your ASSUMPTION was incorrect, as many of your other statements often are, lol.

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