Race fixing/Team tactics, etc.

dkg
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dkg
Regardless if its your rider, for a championship, a one-off race, occurs in other sports, or I’d do it for my buddy, etc. A simple poll:

Is fixing the outcome (i.e. letting your teammate by) good for the sport?

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flatout111
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flatout111 10/14/2018 8:48am
10/14/2018 8:48am
I think it's fine. The teams pay the salaries. If a rider who's not in contention for say a title can help his teammate who is in contention then why is that not ok? That defeats the meaning of the word team. It's fine and adds some much needed strategy at times. Just my opinion.
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RG1
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RG1 10/14/2018 9:00am
10/14/2018 9:00am
I don't mind it. It's the hypocrisy in this situation that is the problem for me
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dkg
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dkg 10/14/2018 9:29am
10/14/2018 9:29am
flatout111 wrote:
I think it's fine. The teams pay the salaries. If a rider who's not in contention for say a title can help his teammate who is...
I think it's fine. The teams pay the salaries. If a rider who's not in contention for say a title can help his teammate who is in contention then why is that not ok? That defeats the meaning of the word team. It's fine and adds some much needed strategy at times. Just my opinion.
This gets right to the heart of the matter. If we view our sport as a team event, I agree. If it is viewed as an individual event, it the becomes much more murky. We are in a hybrid situation, finding the correct answer can be difficult.
feelit2morrow 10/14/2018 9:43am
10/14/2018 9:43am
This wasn't for championship contention. This is an exhibition race... Tomac had the overall regardless of the pass. He helped him earn more money. Who gives a shit.


Some people whine just for the sake of whining.
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DPR250R
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DPR250R 10/14/2018 11:34am
10/14/2018 11:34am
How do you force someone to race at full speed at all times? Who makes the call that someone is intentionally dogging it?

I don’t like it for the sake of the competition but I don’t see a way to enforce a rule.
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SPYGUY
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SPYGUY 10/14/2018 12:06pm
10/14/2018 12:06pm
RG1 wrote:
I don't mind it. It's the hypocrisy in this situation that is the problem for me
Marvin helped his teammate gain more points in a championship hunt that Tomac was also vying for. Savatgy's move didn't negatively affect any other rider on the track. There's a difference there.
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APLMAN99
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APLMAN99 10/14/2018 12:11pm
10/14/2018 12:11pm
RG1 wrote:
I don't mind it. It's the hypocrisy in this situation that is the problem for me
What alleged hypocrisy are you referring to?
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aeffertz
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aeffertz 10/14/2018 12:16pm
10/14/2018 12:16pm
What your guys thoughts on Barcia letting Tomac by at RedBud MXoN? Or how about Lupino letting Cairoli by at RedBud MXoN? Etc...
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RichardLoots 10/14/2018 12:22pm
10/14/2018 12:22pm
aeffertz wrote:
What your guys thoughts on Barcia letting Tomac by at RedBud MXoN? Or how about Lupino letting Cairoli by at RedBud MXoN? Etc...
interesting ..MXON is considered a team event , result from every team member counts and total result of all riders is the outcome of MXON result

is MEC a team event ?
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langhammx
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langhammx 10/14/2018 12:23pm
10/14/2018 12:23pm
Oh great... another thread with a poll to whine in. Geez... let’s talk about something positive
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flatout111
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flatout111 10/14/2018 12:34pm
10/14/2018 12:34pm Edited Date/Time 10/14/2018 12:36pm
Again, let's say a title is on the line, and you are not in contention, it only makes sense and you know your employers want you to aid their other employee if he/she does have a chance at it.

I mean it is business, guys. If it was your money funding the team you'd want the same.
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RichardLoots 10/14/2018 12:43pm
10/14/2018 12:43pm Edited Date/Time 10/14/2018 12:44pm
flatout111 wrote:
Again, let's say a title is on the line, and you are not in contention, it only makes sense and you know your employers want you...
Again, let's say a title is on the line, and you are not in contention, it only makes sense and you know your employers want you to aid their other employee if he/she does have a chance at it.

I mean it is business, guys. If it was your money funding the team you'd want the same.
watched Formule 1 a few weeks ago , Bottas had to let hamilton pass , didnt like it but did it for team and Hamilton
nobody likes team orders , but from team or riders perspective it makes a lot of sense

But hamilton thanked bottas in front of whole world , Tomac said it was a great pass for victory Laughing

i thnk there are ways to avoid to make it look so obvious ..
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RG1
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RG1 10/14/2018 2:06pm
10/14/2018 2:06pm
RG1 wrote:
I don't mind it. It's the hypocrisy in this situation that is the problem for me
APLMAN99 wrote:
What alleged hypocrisy are you referring to?
The hypocrisy of Kawasaki and Tomac causing stink and kicking up a fuss about Marv letting Dungey through, then doing exactly the same thing 18 months later to win a million
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RG1
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RG1 10/14/2018 2:10pm
10/14/2018 2:10pm
RG1 wrote:
I don't mind it. It's the hypocrisy in this situation that is the problem for me
SPYGUY wrote:
Marvin helped his teammate gain more points in a championship hunt that Tomac was also vying for. Savatgy's move didn't negatively affect any other rider on...
Marvin helped his teammate gain more points in a championship hunt that Tomac was also vying for. Savatgy's move didn't negatively affect any other rider on the track. There's a difference there.
Lots of people have said that, I don't see much a difference to be honest, it's still effectively rigging the outcome of a race for personal gain. I'm not really that bothered that Savatgy moved over, it's just the hypocrisy of it
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APLMAN99
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APLMAN99 10/14/2018 2:12pm
10/14/2018 2:12pm
RG1 wrote:
I don't mind it. It's the hypocrisy in this situation that is the problem for me
APLMAN99 wrote:
What alleged hypocrisy are you referring to?
RG1 wrote:
The hypocrisy of Kawasaki and Tomac causing stink and kicking up a fuss about Marv letting Dungey through, then doing exactly the same thing 18 months...
The hypocrisy of Kawasaki and Tomac causing stink and kicking up a fuss about Marv letting Dungey through, then doing exactly the same thing 18 months later to win a million
Which competitor was left in a more unfavorable position, either for the single race or for the MEC overall, due to Savatgy apparently surrendering the position?


The two incidents are definitely not "exactly the same thing"..........
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RG1
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RG1 10/14/2018 2:21pm
10/14/2018 2:21pm
APLMAN99 wrote:
What alleged hypocrisy are you referring to?
RG1 wrote:
The hypocrisy of Kawasaki and Tomac causing stink and kicking up a fuss about Marv letting Dungey through, then doing exactly the same thing 18 months...
The hypocrisy of Kawasaki and Tomac causing stink and kicking up a fuss about Marv letting Dungey through, then doing exactly the same thing 18 months later to win a million
APLMAN99 wrote:
Which competitor was left in a more unfavorable position, either for the single race or for the MEC overall, due to Savatgy apparently surrendering the position...
Which competitor was left in a more unfavorable position, either for the single race or for the MEC overall, due to Savatgy apparently surrendering the position?


The two incidents are definitely not "exactly the same thing"..........
Well they are, it's the 2nd rider on the team moving out the way so the teams number one rider can gain an advantage he wouldn't otherwise get. What impact it has on everyone else is irrelevant in my eyes, Savatgy and Musquin both did the same thing. It's either okay or it's not
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motogrady
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motogrady 10/14/2018 2:23pm
10/14/2018 2:23pm
RG1 wrote:
I don't mind it. It's the hypocrisy in this situation that is the problem for me
APLMAN99 wrote:
What alleged hypocrisy are you referring to?
RG1 wrote:
The hypocrisy of Kawasaki and Tomac causing stink and kicking up a fuss about Marv letting Dungey through, then doing exactly the same thing 18 months...
The hypocrisy of Kawasaki and Tomac causing stink and kicking up a fuss about Marv letting Dungey through, then doing exactly the same thing 18 months later to win a million

Hey, one could say it's was payback then. Would that make you feel better?

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RG1
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RG1 10/14/2018 2:26pm
10/14/2018 2:26pm
motogrady wrote:

Hey, one could say it's was payback then. Would that make you feel better?

Not really payback. There's nothing to pay back really, Dungey wins the title in 17 regardless of the position switch. It was Tomac bottling it that cost him the title
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motogrady
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motogrady 10/14/2018 2:37pm
10/14/2018 2:37pm
motogrady wrote:

Hey, one could say it's was payback then. Would that make you feel better?

RG1 wrote:
Not really payback. There's nothing to pay back really, Dungey wins the title in 17 regardless of the position switch. It was Tomac bottling it that...
Not really payback. There's nothing to pay back really, Dungey wins the title in 17 regardless of the position switch. It was Tomac bottling it that cost him the title

Whatever you wanna call it, that stuff happens in certain situations, always has, always will.
To think otherwise is just being, how can one day it, naive.
APLMAN99
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APLMAN99 10/14/2018 2:53pm
10/14/2018 2:53pm
RG1 wrote:
The hypocrisy of Kawasaki and Tomac causing stink and kicking up a fuss about Marv letting Dungey through, then doing exactly the same thing 18 months...
The hypocrisy of Kawasaki and Tomac causing stink and kicking up a fuss about Marv letting Dungey through, then doing exactly the same thing 18 months later to win a million
APLMAN99 wrote:
Which competitor was left in a more unfavorable position, either for the single race or for the MEC overall, due to Savatgy apparently surrendering the position...
Which competitor was left in a more unfavorable position, either for the single race or for the MEC overall, due to Savatgy apparently surrendering the position?


The two incidents are definitely not "exactly the same thing"..........
RG1 wrote:
Well they are, it's the 2nd rider on the team moving out the way so the teams number one rider can gain an advantage he wouldn't...
Well they are, it's the 2nd rider on the team moving out the way so the teams number one rider can gain an advantage he wouldn't otherwise get. What impact it has on everyone else is irrelevant in my eyes, Savatgy and Musquin both did the same thing. It's either okay or it's not
Actually, they aren't the same. Context is huge in any situation like this.

Somewhat like the nearly university belief that knocking another rider off the track in the last few corners or on the last lap of a SX final is different than pulling a full on kamikaze move on the second lap of a heat race. Context matters.

Now if letting Tomac "bye" was going to give him a points advantage to win the overall against another competitor, that'd be considered the same. But it wasn't, and it isn't...….
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gabrielito
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gabrielito 10/14/2018 3:34pm
10/14/2018 3:34pm
Do any of the Sports books in Vegas take bets on these races? It would be cool if thy did, but team tactics could really make them uneasy. It could be a crime or worse.
twnorton
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twnorton 10/14/2018 4:18pm
10/14/2018 4:18pm
Jeez, you guys would be pissed if you watched formula 1. This kind of stuff happens every race there
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honda907
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honda907 10/14/2018 4:33pm
10/14/2018 4:33pm
Maybe JS17 had a bet at the casino old ET3 winning all the motos?
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MR. X
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MR. X 10/14/2018 6:45pm
10/14/2018 6:45pm
Move over or get cleaned out by a guy who had a million dollars to lose . Seems like a simple decision .Anybody who thinks Tomac couldn't have cleaned him out is an idiot.
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gabrielito
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gabrielito 10/14/2018 7:00pm
10/14/2018 7:00pm Edited Date/Time 10/14/2018 7:10pm
Or maybe they were in on it.
tempura
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tempura 10/14/2018 7:06pm
10/14/2018 7:06pm
This upcoming season, will Savatgy be subjected to the same ridicule as Marvin recieved from the “fans”?
I hope not, and believe “letting by” is a murky area and probably best not done.
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Crossup
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Crossup 10/14/2018 7:14pm
10/14/2018 7:14pm
aeffertz wrote:
What your guys thoughts on Barcia letting Tomac by at RedBud MXoN? Or how about Lupino letting Cairoli by at RedBud MXoN? Etc...
RichardLoots wrote:
interesting ..MXON is considered a team event , result from every team member counts and total result of all riders is the outcome of MXON result...
interesting ..MXON is considered a team event , result from every team member counts and total result of all riders is the outcome of MXON result

is MEC a team event ?
If you're on a Motocross team, it is automatically a team event. They may race 90% as individuals but at the end of the day team tactics play into championships.
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Claerhout
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Claerhout 10/14/2018 7:16pm
10/14/2018 7:16pm Edited Date/Time 10/14/2018 7:20pm
Its the hypocrisy that bugs me a bit. I understood when Marvin did it. I kind of understood why Eli was salty after that. But once the dust settled, and Dungey won the title by more than the difference, and almost a year had passed....Tomac was STILL salty about it. Remember when he whined about it loooong after, at the press conference after Marv went in hard for the win? Thats not letting go. And you cant be that salty and against something, and then have it benefit you later w out ppl calling you out on it.

I remember when Marv did it, and alot of you guys posted that rule all up in arms. Savatgy str8 waved him thru lol. And now the same ppl saying "at least he was honest" wouldve protested Marv if he didnt act. Hypocrisy from fans also.
woody woodpecker 10/14/2018 7:21pm
10/14/2018 7:21pm
Who cares if it's right or wrong, at the end of the day it's Tomac that comes off looking bad from it.

We look back at RV winning the million and think what a badass he was, when we look back at Tomac's win we will think about Joey waving him past.
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