Race fixing/Team tactics, etc.

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10/14/2018 8:44 AM

Regardless if its your rider, for a championship, a one-off race, occurs in other sports, or I’d do it for my buddy, etc. A simple poll:

Is fixing the outcome (i.e. letting your teammate by) good for the sport?

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I'm goin' off the rails on a crazy train

10/14/2018 8:48 AM

I think it's fine. The teams pay the salaries. If a rider who's not in contention for say a title can help his teammate who is in contention then why is that not ok? That defeats the meaning of the word team. It's fine and adds some much needed strategy at times. Just my opinion.

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10/14/2018 9:00 AM

I don't mind it. It's the hypocrisy in this situation that is the problem for me

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10/14/2018 9:29 AM

flatout111 wrote:

I think it's fine. The teams pay the salaries. If a rider who's not in contention for say a title can help his teammate who is in contention then why is that not ok? That defeats the meaning of the word team. It's fine and adds some much needed strategy at times. Just my opinion.

This gets right to the heart of the matter. If we view our sport as a team event, I agree. If it is viewed as an individual event, it the becomes much more murky. We are in a hybrid situation, finding the correct answer can be difficult.

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I'm goin' off the rails on a crazy train

10/14/2018 9:43 AM

This wasn't for championship contention. This is an exhibition race... Tomac had the overall regardless of the pass. He helped him earn more money. Who gives a shit.


Some people whine just for the sake of whining.

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2018 CRF250R

10/14/2018 10:52 AM

Just call him Mr Asterisk* with the "not really 1 million dollars ".

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10/14/2018 11:34 AM

How do you force someone to race at full speed at all times? Who makes the call that someone is intentionally dogging it?

I don’t like it for the sake of the competition but I don’t see a way to enforce a rule.

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10/14/2018 12:06 PM

RG1 wrote:

I don't mind it. It's the hypocrisy in this situation that is the problem for me

Marvin helped his teammate gain more points in a championship hunt that Tomac was also vying for. Savatgy's move didn't negatively affect any other rider on the track. There's a difference there.

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10/14/2018 12:11 PM

RG1 wrote:

I don't mind it. It's the hypocrisy in this situation that is the problem for me

What alleged hypocrisy are you referring to?

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10/14/2018 12:16 PM

What your guys thoughts on Barcia letting Tomac by at RedBud MXoN? Or how about Lupino letting Cairoli by at RedBud MXoN? Etc...

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10/14/2018 12:22 PM

aeffertz wrote:

What your guys thoughts on Barcia letting Tomac by at RedBud MXoN? Or how about Lupino letting Cairoli by at RedBud MXoN? Etc...

interesting ..MXON is considered a team event , result from every team member counts and total result of all riders is the outcome of MXON result

is MEC a team event ?

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the funniest thing about this particular signature is that by the time you realise it doesn't say anything it's to late to stop reading it

10/14/2018 12:23 PM

Oh great... another thread with a poll to whine in. Geez... let’s talk about something positive

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10/14/2018 12:34 PM
Edited Date/Time: 10/14/2018 12:36 PM

Again, let's say a title is on the line, and you are not in contention, it only makes sense and you know your employers want you to aid their other employee if he/she does have a chance at it.

I mean it is business, guys. If it was your money funding the team you'd want the same.

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10/14/2018 12:43 PM
Edited Date/Time: 10/14/2018 12:44 PM

flatout111 wrote:

Again, let's say a title is on the line, and you are not in contention, it only makes sense and you know your employers want you to aid their other employee if he/she does have a chance at it.

I mean it is business, guys. If it was your money funding the team you'd want the same.

watched Formule 1 a few weeks ago , Bottas had to let hamilton pass , didnt like it but did it for team and Hamilton
nobody likes team orders , but from team or riders perspective it makes a lot of sense

But hamilton thanked bottas in front of whole world , Tomac said it was a great pass for victory laughing

i thnk there are ways to avoid to make it look so obvious ..

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the funniest thing about this particular signature is that by the time you realise it doesn't say anything it's to late to stop reading it

10/14/2018 2:06 PM

RG1 wrote:

I don't mind it. It's the hypocrisy in this situation that is the problem for me

APLMAN99 wrote:

What alleged hypocrisy are you referring to?

The hypocrisy of Kawasaki and Tomac causing stink and kicking up a fuss about Marv letting Dungey through, then doing exactly the same thing 18 months later to win a million

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10/14/2018 2:10 PM

RG1 wrote:

I don't mind it. It's the hypocrisy in this situation that is the problem for me

SPYGUY wrote:

Marvin helped his teammate gain more points in a championship hunt that Tomac was also vying for. Savatgy's move didn't negatively affect any other rider on the track. There's a difference there.

Lots of people have said that, I don't see much a difference to be honest, it's still effectively rigging the outcome of a race for personal gain. I'm not really that bothered that Savatgy moved over, it's just the hypocrisy of it

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10/14/2018 2:12 PM

RG1 wrote:

I don't mind it. It's the hypocrisy in this situation that is the problem for me

APLMAN99 wrote:

What alleged hypocrisy are you referring to?

RG1 wrote:

The hypocrisy of Kawasaki and Tomac causing stink and kicking up a fuss about Marv letting Dungey through, then doing exactly the same thing 18 months later to win a million

Which competitor was left in a more unfavorable position, either for the single race or for the MEC overall, due to Savatgy apparently surrendering the position?


The two incidents are definitely not "exactly the same thing"..........

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10/14/2018 2:21 PM

APLMAN99 wrote:

What alleged hypocrisy are you referring to?

RG1 wrote:

The hypocrisy of Kawasaki and Tomac causing stink and kicking up a fuss about Marv letting Dungey through, then doing exactly the same thing 18 months later to win a million

APLMAN99 wrote:

Which competitor was left in a more unfavorable position, either for the single race or for the MEC overall, due to Savatgy apparently surrendering the position?


The two incidents are definitely not "exactly the same thing"..........

Well they are, it's the 2nd rider on the team moving out the way so the teams number one rider can gain an advantage he wouldn't otherwise get. What impact it has on everyone else is irrelevant in my eyes, Savatgy and Musquin both did the same thing. It's either okay or it's not

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10/14/2018 2:23 PM

RG1 wrote:

I don't mind it. It's the hypocrisy in this situation that is the problem for me

APLMAN99 wrote:

What alleged hypocrisy are you referring to?

RG1 wrote:

The hypocrisy of Kawasaki and Tomac causing stink and kicking up a fuss about Marv letting Dungey through, then doing exactly the same thing 18 months later to win a million


Hey, one could say it's was payback then. Would that make you feel better?

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10/14/2018 2:26 PM

motogrady wrote:
Hey, one could say it's was payback then. Would that make you feel better?

Not really payback. There's nothing to pay back really, Dungey wins the title in 17 regardless of the position switch. It was Tomac bottling it that cost him the title

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10/14/2018 2:37 PM

RG1 wrote:

The hypocrisy of Kawasaki and Tomac causing stink and kicking up a fuss about Marv letting Dungey through, then doing exactly the same thing 18 months later to win a million

motogrady wrote:
Hey, one could say it's was payback then. Would that make you feel better?

RG1 wrote:

Not really payback. There's nothing to pay back really, Dungey wins the title in 17 regardless of the position switch. It was Tomac bottling it that cost him the title


Whatever you wanna call it, that stuff happens in certain situations, always has, always will.
To think otherwise is just being, how can one day it, naive.
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10/14/2018 2:53 PM

RG1 wrote:

The hypocrisy of Kawasaki and Tomac causing stink and kicking up a fuss about Marv letting Dungey through, then doing exactly the same thing 18 months later to win a million

APLMAN99 wrote:

Which competitor was left in a more unfavorable position, either for the single race or for the MEC overall, due to Savatgy apparently surrendering the position?


The two incidents are definitely not "exactly the same thing"..........

RG1 wrote:

Well they are, it's the 2nd rider on the team moving out the way so the teams number one rider can gain an advantage he wouldn't otherwise get. What impact it has on everyone else is irrelevant in my eyes, Savatgy and Musquin both did the same thing. It's either okay or it's not

Actually, they aren't the same. Context is huge in any situation like this.

Somewhat like the nearly university belief that knocking another rider off the track in the last few corners or on the last lap of a SX final is different than pulling a full on kamikaze move on the second lap of a heat race. Context matters.

Now if letting Tomac "bye" was going to give him a points advantage to win the overall against another competitor, that'd be considered the same. But it wasn't, and it isn't...….

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10/14/2018 3:34 PM

Do any of the Sports books in Vegas take bets on these races? It would be cool if thy did, but team tactics could really make them uneasy. It could be a crime or worse.

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10/14/2018 4:18 PM

Jeez, you guys would be pissed if you watched formula 1. This kind of stuff happens every race there

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10/14/2018 4:33 PM

Maybe JS17 had a bet at the casino old ET3 winning all the motos?

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Older and YZer!!!

10/14/2018 6:45 PM

Move over or get cleaned out by a guy who had a million dollars to lose . Seems like a simple decision .Anybody who thinks Tomac couldn't have cleaned him out is an idiot.

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10/14/2018 7:00 PM
Edited Date/Time: 10/14/2018 7:10 PM

Or maybe they were in on it.

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10/14/2018 7:06 PM

This upcoming season, will Savatgy be subjected to the same ridicule as Marvin recieved from the “fans”?
I hope not, and believe “letting by” is a murky area and probably best not done.

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"Nothing happens until something moves"

10/14/2018 7:14 PM

aeffertz wrote:

What your guys thoughts on Barcia letting Tomac by at RedBud MXoN? Or how about Lupino letting Cairoli by at RedBud MXoN? Etc...

RichardLoots wrote:

interesting ..MXON is considered a team event , result from every team member counts and total result of all riders is the outcome of MXON result

is MEC a team event ?

If you're on a Motocross team, it is automatically a team event. They may race 90% as individuals but at the end of the day team tactics play into championships.

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10/14/2018 7:16 PM
Edited Date/Time: 10/14/2018 7:20 PM

Its the hypocrisy that bugs me a bit. I understood when Marvin did it. I kind of understood why Eli was salty after that. But once the dust settled, and Dungey won the title by more than the difference, and almost a year had passed....Tomac was STILL salty about it. Remember when he whined about it loooong after, at the press conference after Marv went in hard for the win? Thats not letting go. And you cant be that salty and against something, and then have it benefit you later w out ppl calling you out on it.

I remember when Marv did it, and alot of you guys posted that rule all up in arms. Savatgy str8 waved him thru lol. And now the same ppl saying "at least he was honest" wouldve protested Marv if he didnt act. Hypocrisy from fans also.

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