RC4's numbers are insane

brimx153
Posts
3338
Joined
5/3/2012
Location
IE
8/21/2021 6:41pm
Pink wrote:
James had him covered with talent and speed, RC had the heart of a lion. He never gave up and refused to loose.
Crush wrote:
People write this and it drives me nuts. Show me all the races where James has RC just covered and I’ll show you the majority where...
People write this and it drives me nuts. Show me all the races where James has RC just covered and I’ll show you the majority where that wasn’t the case or actually the other way around.

James was stupid fast, but he didn’t lose those titles because he was checked out 30 seconds every week and crashed. Rc was every bit as fast 99% of the time and had plenty where he was faster too, AND could do it without wrecking. Check the books.
I 100% agree , its really stupid. RC was plenty of time s as fast or faster than James in SX. Most of the time when james was faster it was because of a big whoop s or a jump only james was doing . And that happened alot less than people remember imo. RC did nt just win because he was the fittest, he was the fastest too, especially in outdoors, there where time s when he was alot faster than james .
5
B Lenny
Posts
889
Joined
9/20/2020
Location
Inglewood, CA US
8/21/2021 6:51pm
brimx153 wrote:
I 100% agree , its really stupid. RC was plenty of time s as fast or faster than James in SX. Most of the time when...
I 100% agree , its really stupid. RC was plenty of time s as fast or faster than James in SX. Most of the time when james was faster it was because of a big whoop s or a jump only james was doing . And that happened alot less than people remember imo. RC did nt just win because he was the fittest, he was the fastest too, especially in outdoors, there where time s when he was alot faster than james .
Waaah!..Waaaah!...STFU...Laughing
9
8/21/2021 7:27pm
brimx153 wrote:
I 100% agree , its really stupid. RC was plenty of time s as fast or faster than James in SX. Most of the time when...
I 100% agree , its really stupid. RC was plenty of time s as fast or faster than James in SX. Most of the time when james was faster it was because of a big whoop s or a jump only james was doing . And that happened alot less than people remember imo. RC did nt just win because he was the fittest, he was the fastest too, especially in outdoors, there where time s when he was alot faster than james .
Show me a sx race where James and RC went head to head for the whole race, and RC came out on top.

6
Forty
Posts
2807
Joined
7/27/2009
Location
Saint Paul, MN US
8/21/2021 7:33pm
RC was a warrior. He left it all out there, every race. When James beat him it spoke volumes because of this.

James win/loss percentage to RC may be in the negative column but when James was on the track magic could and did happen and he is the most dynamic racer I’ve ever seen and I’ll argue his position as the FMOTP with anyone.

He did some things on a dirt bike that was more than anyone had seen, and will see again.

Plus from what I hear he is a good man, father, and husband. So there you go.
3
1

The Shop

CPR
Posts
4386
Joined
10/4/2018
Location
AU
8/21/2021 10:58pm
brimx153 wrote:
I 100% agree , its really stupid. RC was plenty of time s as fast or faster than James in SX. Most of the time when...
I 100% agree , its really stupid. RC was plenty of time s as fast or faster than James in SX. Most of the time when james was faster it was because of a big whoop s or a jump only james was doing . And that happened alot less than people remember imo. RC did nt just win because he was the fittest, he was the fastest too, especially in outdoors, there where time s when he was alot faster than james .
Show me a sx race where James and RC went head to head for the whole race, and RC came out on top.

There were races where Reedy went head to head with James or RC and won. Does that mean he’s faster?
No it just means he was faster that day.
They all had their days, but RC had more of those days then anyone, that’s why he’s the GOAT.
5
8/22/2021 12:53am
RC put up some world class numbers. Pretty amazing when you look at it. Other than a "slow start" in Supercross, he was unbeatable for a...
RC put up some world class numbers. Pretty amazing when you look at it.

Other than a "slow start" in Supercross, he was unbeatable for a title.

Looks like Stewart had him covered for SX in 07, but not outdoors. Who knows how it would of played out had RC ran the entire series in 07.

600 points possible in MX. 425 in Supercross, 200 in a SX Lites regional series.

https://vault.racerxonline.com/rider/ricky-carmichael/races

https://vault.racerxonline.com/rider/ricky-carmichael/points

What do you mean who knows how it would of turned out?? He would of won easily, no question..
1
Park Boys
Posts
3581
Joined
3/23/2012
Location
MH US
Fantasy
39th
8/22/2021 7:32am
McGrath is the SX GOAT, no argument about that.
Park Boys wrote:
In a series once RC hit his stride give me RC every single time. Won his 5th SX title when he was 26, would he have...
In a series once RC hit his stride give me RC every single time. Won his 5th SX title when he was 26, would he have won in 07? No, but no one beats 07 Stew, but had RC stayed into racing into his thirties there is no doubt he would have won way more SX title and races.
Crush wrote:
I think 07 Stew was the fastest SX has been ridden... but watching the 06 championships and the races in 07 Ricky rode, I'd not be...
I think 07 Stew was the fastest SX has been ridden... but watching the 06 championships and the races in 07 Ricky rode, I'd not be so sure of that.

James had a speed cushion on Chad that year and knew it. He knew that title was his. But RC was still right with him retiring or not. It's not a sure thing that he'd not have made the same mistakes that cost him the years before and after when raced hard for a full chip IMO.
If you really look into RC vs James indoors,for all of Stews crashes in 06 it was first turn crashes that cost him in the end. It seemed like he was on the deck every other week. By the end of 06 Stew was rolling although he still made some mistakes but after Daytona he basically had his way. In 2007 the only reason Stew didn’t win St Louis was a blatant Reed take out and Reed still got smoked. I agree with Stew not being that much faster than RC in 07. Also 07 was far and away the best RC has ever looked which is crazy as he had a foot out the door. First time RC looked like a “modern” SX racer. His difference from 99 to 07 is insane. But from Daytona 06 on Stew beat RC 11 out of the 13 SX races and he finished 2nd in the other two. From Daytona 06 up to 2011 Stew was pretty solid indoors, obviously A1 09 but that was a freak deal. So IMO as long as Stew avoided first turn pile ups which he did no one beats him. Plus Stew on that 07-08 Kawi was the comfiest he ever looked on a bike by far.

RC still the GOAT, no question. Like I said earlier watch 07 and take away Stew and he is beating the field as much if not more than he ever did. Who knows what RC would have done, all I know is we all got robbed from RC vs Stew battles which IMO were the best ever.
LoudLove
Posts
1751
Joined
7/16/2010
Location
US
8/22/2021 11:27am
On any given day, Stewart was faster than everyone else on the planet. But championships require consistency, which James could generate when not under pressure. And no one applied pressure like RC.

That being said, JS could pressure RC into mistakes as well; Ricky was just better at managing those situations. Dallas 2006, Ricky throws himself and his Suzuki into a ski boat trying to keep pace. James has a nice lead when, inexplicably, he mistimes a rhythm section and ends up off the track. This hands the lead and win to Reed, while Ricky finishes 6th. So James gives away 3 points that night, and eventually loses the championship, 336 to 338. The entire RC/JS debate changes if James simply keeps his KX on the track that night.
3
8/22/2021 6:12pm
Jeremy’s 72 wins is incredible, and a record that will never be broken.
But you take any one of these three guys out of the picture and the other 2 both have more wins than Jeremy.
THIS was the most epic era of SX.

8
Crush
Posts
20962
Joined
4/26/2009
Location
Sydney AU
8/22/2021 7:58pm Edited Date/Time 8/22/2021 7:59pm
Park Boys wrote:
If you really look into RC vs James indoors,for all of Stews crashes in 06 it was first turn crashes that cost him in the end...
If you really look into RC vs James indoors,for all of Stews crashes in 06 it was first turn crashes that cost him in the end. It seemed like he was on the deck every other week. By the end of 06 Stew was rolling although he still made some mistakes but after Daytona he basically had his way. In 2007 the only reason Stew didn’t win St Louis was a blatant Reed take out and Reed still got smoked. I agree with Stew not being that much faster than RC in 07. Also 07 was far and away the best RC has ever looked which is crazy as he had a foot out the door. First time RC looked like a “modern” SX racer. His difference from 99 to 07 is insane. But from Daytona 06 on Stew beat RC 11 out of the 13 SX races and he finished 2nd in the other two. From Daytona 06 up to 2011 Stew was pretty solid indoors, obviously A1 09 but that was a freak deal. So IMO as long as Stew avoided first turn pile ups which he did no one beats him. Plus Stew on that 07-08 Kawi was the comfiest he ever looked on a bike by far.

RC still the GOAT, no question. Like I said earlier watch 07 and take away Stew and he is beating the field as much if not more than he ever did. Who knows what RC would have done, all I know is we all got robbed from RC vs Stew battles which IMO were the best ever.
Yeah but every year, from Daytona to the end of the SX series Ricky didn't do as much winning as he did at the start of the season... and adding in the part time roster in 07 where Ricky has no real stake in it and James has no pressure is hard to balance too IMO...

Same as crashes, first turn or otherwise. The point of a race is first to the flag. The point of a championship is most points wins. Circumstances that really affect that result that aren't in the riders control are valid, but people who go fast and crash are akin to practice heros. What happens when it's clutch time? When the money is on the line?

I think 07 Stew was the best he was, even though he looked like he was on the knife edge of crashing every moment, but he held it together more than any other time on the big bike.

I just think the Stew pushed RC to retirement bs or any other similar narrative is absolutely ridiculous. He'd have done what he always did.

RC has 23 championship entries in his career. Won 16 times...
And when you scratch:
Two in 2007, he did half the races.
One in 2001, single race entry for the final 125 outdoors.
One in 1997, a single race entry for a cross over shootout year
You're left with the three years he was learning SX...97 on the 125 and 99 & 2000 on the 250.

He won every other time. Every other time.
7
8/22/2021 11:43pm
Jeremy’s 72 wins is incredible, and a record that will never be broken. But you take any one of these three guys out of the picture...
Jeremy’s 72 wins is incredible, and a record that will never be broken.
But you take any one of these three guys out of the picture and the other 2 both have more wins than Jeremy.
THIS was the most epic era of SX.

Not quite, not many care about boring 450 fart bike races
5
motomike137
Posts
6898
Joined
4/22/2010
Location
Fenton, MI US
8/23/2021 7:43am
LoudLove wrote:
The mindset behind MC, RC, and JS helps explain the results of each rider. Jeremy knew from the beginning that SX wins and championships would pay...
The mindset behind MC, RC, and JS helps explain the results of each rider.

Jeremy knew from the beginning that SX wins and championships would pay the bills. Could he have won more outdoor titles? Absolutely, but he didn’t want nor need to. McGrath’s success allowed him to negotiate supercross-only contracts that financially lifted him above full-time racers. Coupled with a “California Cool” demeanor, Jeremy was exactly what the fans and promoters wanted.

Racing success did not come easy for James. While obliterating his amateur competitors on the track, “Bubba” faced massive discrimination once his helmet was off. We like to think our sport offers equal opportunities to those with talent, but both the senior and junior Stewarts have stories of the challenges they faced away from their home tracks. Both are to be commended for largely keeping those hurdles out of the spotlight, but once James became beloved by the masses, he perhaps enjoyed the spoils a bit too much. Surrounded by people who were simply following the money, JS found himself a bit overwhelmed by non-racing responsibilities. James’ crashes and “shoulda been” discussions are nearly as memorable as his actual victories. But that combination had everyone on the edge of their seats every time he threw a leg over the bike.

As for Ricky? His post-career interviews tell the tale. At times he hated his job. The constant grind, the relentless expectation to succeed, and the lukewarm acceptance by the fans drove RC into a cocoon. His small circle of friends and confidantes insulated Ricky from the “noise” surrounding professional athletes. While many may have found those conditions stifling, Carmichael thrived, resulting in 15 championships out of 17 full-time series. His off-track focus and tenacity, coupled with a Michael Jordan-like burning desire to proved others wrong, literally changed the sport as much as MC and JS did on the track. RC was a supreme tactical racer, crushing his outdoor competitors, and fully understanding that SX was 20 lap sprints wrapped inside a 16 race marathon. He won titles on his bad days, and kept those days few and far between. Racing was a business for Ricky, no more, no less.

Each rider left their mark on the sport in different ways. Identifying the “greatest” is subjective at best. Ricky has the total numbers, Jeremy has the SX titles, and James is, well, James! The fact that we’re having this discussion demonstrates how lucky we were to experience that era of racing.
I'm going to print this out and frame it. You have given the best description of that era I've ever read. dead solid perfect! We were treated to maybe the most epic triumvirate of competitors ever in the sport.
1
wreckitrandy
Posts
3858
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Granite Falls, NC US
8/23/2021 9:01am
B Lenny wrote:
Whistling

Whistling What? This video makes the point that most people with eyes and some understanding are making here. James was willing to go faster than RC. The only problem was that RC was going very near as fast as possible without crashing. James was a tough dude and apparently, didn't mind the pain that came after crossing the line. RC was fitter and, smarter.
6
loftyair
Posts
2769
Joined
7/3/2009
Location
riverside, CA US
8/23/2021 11:18am
I remember RC being in such great shape.
And lapping up to 4th place!
I remember him not being good in mud. So practiced extra in mud. Next mud race? Lapped entire field!
2
CPR
Posts
4386
Joined
10/4/2018
Location
AU
8/23/2021 1:31pm Edited Date/Time 8/23/2021 1:31pm
I remember RC being in such great shape.
And lapping up to 4th place!
loftyair wrote:
I remember him not being good in mud. So practiced extra in mud. Next mud race? Lapped entire field!
Remember in the heat of battling each other, RC and Reed lapped up to third in a dry SX! Only a turn or two from both lapping the entire field in a 20 lap main event. That was insane.
1
8/23/2021 8:51pm
RC 11-27 dob close to being a Scorpio only 6 days off. Sometimes you hv stronger traits of another sign. Other close ones Dungee 12-4, AC 10-20, JS7 12-21 a month off. MC 11-19, Webb 11-10, Eli 11-14, Everts, Huffman is nov. sounds silly but study Scorpio personality traits and it makes sense why they won so much.
3
8/23/2021 11:20pm
CPR wrote:
Remember in the heat of battling each other, RC and Reed lapped up to third in a dry SX! Only a turn or two from both...
Remember in the heat of battling each other, RC and Reed lapped up to third in a dry SX! Only a turn or two from both lapping the entire field in a 20 lap main event. That was insane.
I think that was Orlando right? 04? One of the best races of all time. It’s like there was only 2 people racing that night.
Crush
Posts
20962
Joined
4/26/2009
Location
Sydney AU
8/24/2021 3:16am
RC 11-27 dob close to being a Scorpio only 6 days off. Sometimes you hv stronger traits of another sign. Other close ones Dungee 12-4, AC...
RC 11-27 dob close to being a Scorpio only 6 days off. Sometimes you hv stronger traits of another sign. Other close ones Dungee 12-4, AC 10-20, JS7 12-21 a month off. MC 11-19, Webb 11-10, Eli 11-14, Everts, Huffman is nov. sounds silly but study Scorpio personality traits and it makes sense why they won so much.
Is your caravan musty this time of year?
3
1
CPR
Posts
4386
Joined
10/4/2018
Location
AU
8/24/2021 3:45am
CPR wrote:
Remember in the heat of battling each other, RC and Reed lapped up to third in a dry SX! Only a turn or two from both...
Remember in the heat of battling each other, RC and Reed lapped up to third in a dry SX! Only a turn or two from both lapping the entire field in a 20 lap main event. That was insane.
I think that was Orlando right? 04? One of the best races of all time. It’s like there was only 2 people racing that night.
03 I think?
Johnny Ringo
Posts
5567
Joined
1/11/2016
Location
Tombstone, AZ US
8/24/2021 4:49am
CPR wrote:
Remember in the heat of battling each other, RC and Reed lapped up to third in a dry SX! Only a turn or two from both...
Remember in the heat of battling each other, RC and Reed lapped up to third in a dry SX! Only a turn or two from both lapping the entire field in a 20 lap main event. That was insane.
I think that was Orlando right? 04? One of the best races of all time. It’s like there was only 2 people racing that night.
CPR wrote:
03 I think?
San Diego 05 they lapped to 3rd
3
Crush
Posts
20962
Joined
4/26/2009
Location
Sydney AU
8/24/2021 6:11am
CPR wrote:
Remember in the heat of battling each other, RC and Reed lapped up to third in a dry SX! Only a turn or two from both...
Remember in the heat of battling each other, RC and Reed lapped up to third in a dry SX! Only a turn or two from both lapping the entire field in a 20 lap main event. That was insane.
I think that was Orlando right? 04? One of the best races of all time. It’s like there was only 2 people racing that night.
CPR wrote:
03 I think?
No, that was San Diego 05. Reedy passed him last lap after the finish pinning him against the bales over the up-ramp on an off-on section... RC made a last effort dash and binned it in the whoops.

Orlando James binned it in the whoops, RC binned it in the corner landing before the whoops, Reedy won.

That Orlando track might have been one of my favourite ever SX tracks. They were absolutely WFO. Track was rutted and very technical and had obstacles those guys had to be inch perfect WFO on a factory two stroke to make. It was exciting as hell...

I wish to hell we got to see Reed on his 04 bikes vs RC in 05, it would have been titanic.
1
8/24/2021 7:23am
I don't put Reed in the same category as RC and Stewart. Other than the second half of 2003, he seemed a tick off of RC and Stewart in similar fashion as Dungey was slightly off of RV.
1
2
8/24/2021 8:37am
I don't put Reed in the same category as RC and Stewart. Other than the second half of 2003, he seemed a tick off of RC...
I don't put Reed in the same category as RC and Stewart. Other than the second half of 2003, he seemed a tick off of RC and Stewart in similar fashion as Dungey was slightly off of RV.
That's fair. But Reed was only a tick off indoors he got smoked outdoors. Dunge was just a tick off in both
2
1
Crush
Posts
20962
Joined
4/26/2009
Location
Sydney AU
8/24/2021 8:42am
I don't put Reed in the same category as RC and Stewart. Other than the second half of 2003, he seemed a tick off of RC...
I don't put Reed in the same category as RC and Stewart. Other than the second half of 2003, he seemed a tick off of RC and Stewart in similar fashion as Dungey was slightly off of RV.
Guarantee if they stayed in two strokes it’s different. 03 and 04 he can do what he wants. 05 RC is passing him around the outside on flat turns. That’s not the case the years before,

Reed had the shit end of the machinery stick a few times, especially the Ali frame and four stoke change, and he was definitely slower to adapt to the thumper.

Look at his speed when he was on the better bikes, 03, 04, 09, 11 and 12. He was more than fine.
Park Boys
Posts
3581
Joined
3/23/2012
Location
MH US
Fantasy
39th
8/24/2021 9:14am Edited Date/Time 8/24/2021 9:26am
CPR wrote:
There were races where Reedy went head to head with James or RC and won. Does that mean he’s faster? No it just means he was...
There were races where Reedy went head to head with James or RC and won. Does that mean he’s faster?
No it just means he was faster that day.
They all had their days, but RC had more of those days then anyone, that’s why he’s the GOAT.
Reed never won with all 3 on the line “head to head”. Usually Stew and RC crashed like both of Reeds wins in 06 and Orlando 05. I don’t remember if RC crashed in Reeds other win in 05 while all three were there. Staying up is huge part of the game but if I remember right the first time Reed “Straight up” passed Stew for a win was his first SX win of 2014. Seems untrue but it is. Of course crashing or being pressured into a crash is part of it, but in a “Striaght up” dog fight he never beat them. I’m pretty sure when all 3 were on the line for SX, Stew won 16 of em, RC 8, Reed 4 and Windham won the first race that all three of them were together. Which was the only race RC, Stew and Reed were in and didn’t win.
1
Mr. Afterbar
Posts
2135
Joined
5/13/2019
Location
Green Bay, WI US
8/24/2021 9:20am
Dutch348 wrote:
McGrath has 72 Supercross main event wins, and RC has 48. Yet people still call RC the “GOAT of Supercross” lol
People call McGrath the "King of Supercross" because that is what he is. Nobody has ever even gotten close to his 72 wins and 7 championships...
People call McGrath the "King of Supercross" because that is what he is. Nobody has ever even gotten close to his 72 wins and 7 championships. But his outdoor stats are kind of pedestrian in comparison with 1 outdoor championship and 15 wins.

People call RC the GOAT because of his dominance across both disciplines. 5 Supercross championships combined with his otherworldly stats in motocross - that makes him the Greatest of all Time. It just does.
B Lenny wrote:
So you're sayin' RC was better than DeCoster in his day?..I don't think so...Dry
RC was better than everyone in their day. It's not that hard to understand.
2

Post a reply to: RC4's numbers are insane

The Latest