Pure Speed Hypothetical (Dungey v. Roczen v. Tomac)

Sodipop
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At there best who do you think is the fastest.

I think the best we've seen Tomac indoors was this season and outdoors was the beginning of 2015.

Roczen struggled in 2015 for the rest of the year after casing that jump early in SX but was obviously building momentum from the halfway point in 2016 SX to outdoors where he was great outdoors last year. He was probably at his best in SX at the beginning of 15 and 17.

Dungey wasn't the same guy this year in SX as he was in 2016 but still won the title. I think his best year in SX was actually 2016 when he was the fastest guy

My point here is that it seems like none of these guys were ever at their best at the same time so who do you think at their best would be the fastest?

It obviously doesn't matter but it's a fun bench racing topic.
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6/18/2017 3:49pm
Tomac and ken are both faster then Dungey. Tomac struggled outdoors and ken got hurt in SX so we didn't really get to see them at there full potential
6/18/2017 3:52pm
Sodipop wrote:
At there best who do you think is the fastest. I think the best we've seen Tomac indoors was this season and outdoors was the beginning...
At there best who do you think is the fastest.

I think the best we've seen Tomac indoors was this season and outdoors was the beginning of 2015.

Roczen struggled in 2015 for the rest of the year after casing that jump early in SX but was obviously building momentum from the halfway point in 2016 SX to outdoors where he was great outdoors last year. He was probably at his best in SX at the beginning of 15 and 17.

Dungey wasn't the same guy this year in SX as he was in 2016 but still won the title. I think his best year in SX was actually 2016 when he was the fastest guy

My point here is that it seems like none of these guys were ever at their best at the same time so who do you think at their best would be the fastest?

It obviously doesn't matter but it's a fun bench racing topic.
Its a great Question. I think Rozcen's better in a night (supercross), Tomac's better in a day (Outdoors) but Dungey's better over a year.
6/18/2017 3:55pm
It's definitely an interesting topic, if we're talking straight up raw speed I don't think Dungey is on par with Kenny or Eli, he's not far off though but that probably stems from not hanging it out as much which we have obviously seen bite Tomac at times. Roczen seems to have been able to harness his speed for the most part.

It's kind of a toss up between Kenny and Eli for me, but I think if they are both riding at their fastest I think Eli is probably faster, whether he holds it together is a whole nother topic though.
OR Racer46
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6/18/2017 4:53pm
Aggressive racing. And speed are 2 different things. Plenty of times Dungey had the fastest lap time . We can say what we want but RD has won more races and more Championships that KR and ET combined

The Shop

Fog 25
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6/18/2017 4:59pm
Anybody that went faster than Dungey ended on the ground or in the Hospital !!!
jeffro503
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6/18/2017 5:14pm Edited Date/Time 6/18/2017 5:14pm
OR Racer46 wrote:
Aggressive racing. And speed are 2 different things. Plenty of times Dungey had the fastest lap time . We can say what we want but RD...
Aggressive racing. And speed are 2 different things. Plenty of times Dungey had the fastest lap time . We can say what we want but RD has won more races and more Championships that KR and ET combined
That plays into the hands of consistency though....not raw speed / pure speed like what the OP was asking about.

I agree with what Jorge said above. I think that Kenny and Eli ( and might as well throw Blake in there now too )....Raw speed ( not consistency ) I think would depend on where they are racing at.

I keep using this example....but watch the 250 nationals in 2012. I think that transfers over to what is , and what would be happening....some what.
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6/18/2017 5:15pm
Fog 25 wrote:
Anybody that went faster than Dungey ended on the ground or in the Hospital !!!
You mean except for RV?
Derpin' DJ
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6/18/2017 5:40pm
Ken was nuts outdoors last year. Extremely quick and consistent
Falcon
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6/18/2017 5:44pm
If we're talking pure speed, 2015 Tomac was faster than 2016 Roczen. Both riders were faster than at any time in Dungey's career.
Titan1
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6/18/2017 5:57pm
Fog 25 wrote:
Anybody that went faster than Dungey ended on the ground or in the Hospital !!!
jeffro503 wrote:
You mean except for RV?
How many times did RV crash out of championships trying to go faster than Dungey?
Tarz483
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6/18/2017 6:06pm
Fog 25 wrote:
Anybody that went faster than Dungey ended on the ground or in the Hospital !!!
Yep
6/18/2017 6:07pm
Does an any year Dungey or Roczen go faster than Tomac at Hangtown 2015- No

Does an any year Tomac or Dungey go faster than Roczen at Red Bud 2016- No

Does an any year Roczen or Tomac go faster than Dungey at Millville 2011- No


Point is all 3 of these guys were untouchable at certain races at certain times of their career. But in the long haul nobody has rode that fast pace day in and day out and held it longer than RD of these 3. RV was the last guy to do it and hold it that long.
CrGuy2T
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6/18/2017 6:07pm
Raw speed Kenny all day.
downard254
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6/18/2017 6:18pm
You could probably count on one hand the number of races where we saw Dungey show outright speed that would rival Kenny or Eli. I think the post above that mentioned Milleville in '11 is definitely one, he flat out put to RV that day. But like I said, you just never saw that speed from him that often. I think he preferred he stay in the comfort zone, as his titles and injury list may attest.
Drtbykr
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6/18/2017 6:20pm
Saw all three at the MEC. Roczen was riding around so fast it was hard to comprehend, statement time. But he also ejected. Pure speed is great, fav. racer is JS7.

Doesn't mean anything but pure entertainment unless u keep it on two wheels though.

Dungey, you could tell there was a lot of big picture thinking going on under his lid. He hung it out only when he had to.

Worked out pretty well for him.
6/18/2017 6:24pm Edited Date/Time 6/18/2017 7:54pm
Id say 15 tomac was the fastest ive seen in recent years, which i dont think anyone can argue. 7 seconds a lap faster than 2nd place is unbelievable. He showed great speed at the nations in 13 also.. No one has outside corner speed like tomac

Edit. Oops, 14 nations, not 13
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6/18/2017 7:15pm
Fog 25 wrote:
Anybody that went faster than Dungey ended on the ground or in the Hospital !!!
jeffro503 wrote:
You mean except for RV?
Titan1 wrote:
How many times did RV crash out of championships trying to go faster than Dungey?
Better yet,how many Chapiomships did RV win because he was faster than Dungey?
Stoop
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6/18/2017 7:16pm
Has anyone mentioned Herlings yet?
Sodipop
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6/18/2017 7:19pm
Stoop wrote:
Has anyone mentioned Herlings yet?
Don't do it.
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6/18/2017 7:33pm
Kenny was still improving as well, he waxed these guys last year and often times it did not even look like he was trying. His injury in one way has made the season more exciting but it's still a drag.
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6/18/2017 7:34pm
Id say 15 tomac was the fastest ive seen in recent years, which i dont think anyone can argue. 7 seconds a lap faster than 2nd...
Id say 15 tomac was the fastest ive seen in recent years, which i dont think anyone can argue. 7 seconds a lap faster than 2nd place is unbelievable. He showed great speed at the nations in 13 also.. No one has outside corner speed like tomac

Edit. Oops, 14 nations, not 13
Was 5 seconds, I think it's ironic that the fastest Tomac has been is when Roczen was fighting thru an injury or is not racing.
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6/18/2017 7:36pm
jeffro503 wrote:
You mean except for RV?
Titan1 wrote:
How many times did RV crash out of championships trying to go faster than Dungey?
SwingHard wrote:
Better yet,how many Chapiomships did RV win because he was faster than Dungey?
How many titles did RV not win because of injury...while trying to run a pace that he knew Dungey wouldn't match?

Injury cost RV a lot of titles. Dungey lost more titles to mechanicals than injury...I don't think it's a stretch to assume RV knew he had to push right to his ragged edge in order to beat Dungey...he was able to run on that edge and beat Dungey like no other rider has been able to (not Roczen nor Tomac).
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6/18/2017 7:36pm
Falcon wrote:
If we're talking pure speed, 2015 Tomac was faster than 2016 Roczen. Both riders were faster than at any time in Dungey's career.
I think for one Moto sure Hangtown moto2, the rest of em no. Just IMO. There would have been plenty of races last year where Kenny could have really embrassed the field but it was more about gap management. Dungey has had some real fast MX races espaiclly at Washougal and Millville before always underrated.
6/18/2017 7:52pm
Id say 15 tomac was the fastest ive seen in recent years, which i dont think anyone can argue. 7 seconds a lap faster than 2nd...
Id say 15 tomac was the fastest ive seen in recent years, which i dont think anyone can argue. 7 seconds a lap faster than 2nd place is unbelievable. He showed great speed at the nations in 13 also.. No one has outside corner speed like tomac

Edit. Oops, 14 nations, not 13
Park Boys wrote:
Was 5 seconds, I think it's ironic that the fastest Tomac has been is when Roczen was fighting thru an injury or is not racing.
Dont get me wrong, im a big roczen fan, but i dont see him as having more raw speed outdoors than tomac did those first few rounds. I would have loved to see him on that honda this year
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6/18/2017 8:03pm
If you crash out, that's not your speed. Anyone can ride over their head for a little while. The question, wasn't who rode the fastest, but who was the fastest.
Park Boys
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6/18/2017 8:14pm
Id say 15 tomac was the fastest ive seen in recent years, which i dont think anyone can argue. 7 seconds a lap faster than 2nd...
Id say 15 tomac was the fastest ive seen in recent years, which i dont think anyone can argue. 7 seconds a lap faster than 2nd place is unbelievable. He showed great speed at the nations in 13 also.. No one has outside corner speed like tomac

Edit. Oops, 14 nations, not 13
Park Boys wrote:
Was 5 seconds, I think it's ironic that the fastest Tomac has been is when Roczen was fighting thru an injury or is not racing.
Dont get me wrong, im a big roczen fan, but i dont see him as having more raw speed outdoors than tomac did those first few...
Dont get me wrong, im a big roczen fan, but i dont see him as having more raw speed outdoors than tomac did those first few rounds. I would have loved to see him on that honda this year
I think the 15 year was blown out of proportion because of how badly Tomac beat everyone in Moto 2 Hangtown. Moto 1 RD was close until he realized he couldn't beat him and backed it down. Glen Helen Moto 1 RD had bike problems which is how Tomac got around. 2015 was the best Tomac
we have seen with his single best Moto with Southwick 2016 being his second and third best IMO. If he had as much Raw speed as most people think he does I think he would have more than 6 career wins since 2014, injuries have played apart of course but you can say that about anyone. I still think he wins this title though.
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6/18/2017 8:16pm
RV was just plain faster than Dungey 'nuff said
Hut
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6/18/2017 8:17pm
Park Boys wrote:
Kenny was still improving as well, he waxed these guys last year and often times it did not even look like he was trying. His injury...
Kenny was still improving as well, he waxed these guys last year and often times it did not even look like he was trying. His injury in one way has made the season more exciting but it's still a drag.
Yep huge bummer
6/18/2017 8:21pm
Park Boys wrote:
Was 5 seconds, I think it's ironic that the fastest Tomac has been is when Roczen was fighting thru an injury or is not racing.
Dont get me wrong, im a big roczen fan, but i dont see him as having more raw speed outdoors than tomac did those first few...
Dont get me wrong, im a big roczen fan, but i dont see him as having more raw speed outdoors than tomac did those first few rounds. I would have loved to see him on that honda this year
Park Boys wrote:
I think the 15 year was blown out of proportion because of how badly Tomac beat everyone in Moto 2 Hangtown. Moto 1 RD was close...
I think the 15 year was blown out of proportion because of how badly Tomac beat everyone in Moto 2 Hangtown. Moto 1 RD was close until he realized he couldn't beat him and backed it down. Glen Helen Moto 1 RD had bike problems which is how Tomac got around. 2015 was the best Tomac
we have seen with his single best Moto with Southwick 2016 being his second and third best IMO. If he had as much Raw speed as most people think he does I think he would have more than 6 career wins since 2014, injuries have played apart of course but you can say that about anyone. I still think he wins this title though.
Thats very true. But there is a huge difference between tomac, and a happy confident tomac, but the same can be said with alot of riders. When he is on, he is ON

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