Pulp MX comments right now- is MX croaking?

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8/21/2017 10:58 PM
Edited Date/Time: 8/21/2017 11:05 PM

There was a depressing series of comments from Watson, Matthes and Peronnard. tonight on the state of the sport. If something doesn't change quickly motocross is going to be a second stage sideshow at the County Fair. The only bright spot seems to be Alta, and maybe KTM. As far as wider sponsorship growth and mass appeal- it's dead and buried.

Feld has been promoting SX since 2003. Someone should graph the relative profit of 20 MX-related companies compared with Feld. (Good luck finding financial information about Feld). The other factor is unattainable racing costs for the average person and changing demographics.
I know this stuff has been debated to death but consider RCH won the freaking premier series last year and is folding up this year.
I hate to be a downer, but when a big topic on your favorite sports show is how the sport is collapsing, it's a drag.

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It's impossible for a corporation or government to love you or care about you.

8/21/2017 11:23 PM

NorCal 50+ wrote:

There was a depressing series of comments from Watson, Matthes and Peronnard. tonight on the state of the sport. If something doesn't change quickly motocross is going to be a second stage sideshow at the County Fair. The only bright spot seems to be Alta, and maybe KTM. As far as wider sponsorship growth and mass appeal- it's dead and buried.

Feld has been promoting SX since 2003. Someone should graph the relative profit of 20 MX-related companies compared with Feld. (Good luck finding financial information about Feld). The other factor is unattainable racing costs for the average person and changing demographics.
I know this stuff has been debated to death but consider RCH won the freaking premier series last year and is folding up this year.
I hate to be a downer, but when a big topic on your favorite sports show is how the sport is collapsing, it's a drag.

all motorsports are struggling to get new sponsors, Target has left Nascar after leaving indycar a few years ago, if you follow nascar there are the same concerns,

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8/21/2017 11:26 PM
Edited Date/Time: 8/22/2017 12:51 AM

This is not a MX issue, this is a motorsport issue. Except maybe MotoGP. MotoGP is probably the only thriving motorsport in the world at the moment. Big props to Dorna, they have done amazing things with MotoGP.

F1 might be back on track since Bernie is out and Ross Brawn is in charge of the regulations etc.

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8/21/2017 11:40 PM

Participation is the biggest problem facing MX now.

Who the fuck is going to be able to afford two or three kids racing these days and going forward?

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Cheers, Crush
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8/21/2017 11:43 PM

Motor culture is maybe dying. It was always as natural to me as peas and carrots. When I was a kid all we cared about was cars, dirt bikes and girls.

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It's impossible for a corporation or government to love you or care about you.

8/22/2017 12:37 AM

Blame the Energy Drink Companies I say. They have taken over and others no longer want to compete.

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Riding is Freedom, Freedom is Riding!

8/22/2017 12:45 AM
Edited Date/Time: 8/22/2017 12:48 AM

Nothing to do with energy drink companies, they are keeping MX alive.
They have taken over where cigarette and alcohol companies were forced out.

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@TONY351KTM

8/22/2017 2:11 AM

I don't wanna spend 10k on a bike to risk my life... rather spend 10k on a nice trail bike and go ride with less chance of getting hurt

A lot changed for me over the years of riding, it's love hate

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8/22/2017 3:56 AM
Edited Date/Time: 8/22/2017 5:36 AM

The more expensive the bikes get, the fewer you sell. In racing, that means less of everything else including fans to attend races. I'm sure there are competing social issues as well, but the things the sport can control are not being managed to grow the sport.

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8/22/2017 4:17 AM

NorCal 50+ wrote:

Motor culture is maybe dying. It was always as natural to me as peas and carrots. When I was a kid all we cared about was cars, dirt bikes and girls.

This.

The gadgeted web is killing the moto world - along with a lot of other formerly natural outside stuff.

How many neighborhoods still have all the kids bombing around on bicycles? Or even doing anything together outdoors?

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HAF

8/22/2017 4:20 AM

Motofinne wrote:

This is not a MX issue, this is a motorsport issue. Except maybe MotoGP. MotoGP is probably the only thriving motorsport in the world at the moment. Big props to Dorna, they have done amazing things with MotoGP.

F1 might be back on track since Bernie is out and Ross Brawn is in charge of the regulations etc.

I think it's an MX issue, off-road racing is growing like crazy. This past weekend we raced what is supposed to be the premiere series in our district for Motocross the attendance was a joke. Some of the races hand five classes in them and there still wasn't full Gates

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8/22/2017 4:33 AM

Motofinne wrote:

This is not a MX issue, this is a motorsport issue. Except maybe MotoGP. MotoGP is probably the only thriving motorsport in the world at the moment. Big props to Dorna, they have done amazing things with MotoGP.

F1 might be back on track since Bernie is out and Ross Brawn is in charge of the regulations etc.

RCF wrote:

I think it's an MX issue, off-road racing is growing like crazy. This past weekend we raced what is supposed to be the premiere series in our district for Motocross the attendance was a joke. Some of the races hand five classes in them and there still wasn't full Gates

Yes you're right in that, offroad/enduro/CC is growing here in Finland too. People are moving over from MX to offroad disciplines because it's safer, cheaper and you get to ride/race more.

But i was mainly talking about "bigger" sports. MX and SX is really small and offroad is even smaller.

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8/22/2017 4:49 AM

I agree. See the same thing here

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8/22/2017 4:53 AM

I was at a race Sunday at Lincoln Trail Motorsports in Casey IL and he had 437 entries. Guy does a great job with the track and preps as good as any I've seen. But from what I hear this may be more the exception.

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8/22/2017 4:56 AM

Motofinne wrote:

This is not a MX issue, this is a motorsport issue. Except maybe MotoGP. MotoGP is probably the only thriving motorsport in the world at the moment. Big props to Dorna, they have done amazing things with MotoGP.

F1 might be back on track since Bernie is out and Ross Brawn is in charge of the regulations etc.

RCF wrote:

I think it's an MX issue, off-road racing is growing like crazy. This past weekend we raced what is supposed to be the premiere series in our district for Motocross the attendance was a joke. Some of the races hand five classes in them and there still wasn't full Gates

Motofinne wrote:

Yes you're right in that, offroad/enduro/CC is growing here in Finland too. People are moving over from MX to offroad disciplines because it's safer, cheaper and you get to ride/race more.

But i was mainly talking about "bigger" sports. MX and SX is really small and offroad is even smaller.

Are you talking spectator attendance or Rider attendance ,the upcoming GNCC at Unadilla will easily pull in 2000 plus Riders when you include the quads and kids. It's hard to count spectators at one of these events because they're scattered all through the woods but I pretty sure total attendance will be way higher than the recent Motocross held there. I'm sure somewhere you can dig up ticket sales online. From my own eye the Moto attendance at Unadilla spectator Weis has definitely shrunk, can't speak of other tracks broome-tioga and Unadilla we're the only ones I ever attended. Could never understand why they got rid of broom , from watching on TV it seems like it pulled in much better crowds then some of these other tracks.

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8/22/2017 5:07 AM

RCF wrote:

I think it's an MX issue, off-road racing is growing like crazy. This past weekend we raced what is supposed to be the premiere series in our district for Motocross the attendance was a joke. Some of the races hand five classes in them and there still wasn't full Gates

Motofinne wrote:

Yes you're right in that, offroad/enduro/CC is growing here in Finland too. People are moving over from MX to offroad disciplines because it's safer, cheaper and you get to ride/race more.

But i was mainly talking about "bigger" sports. MX and SX is really small and offroad is even smaller.

RCF wrote:

Are you talking spectator attendance or Rider attendance ,the upcoming GNCC at Unadilla will easily pull in 2000 plus Riders when you include the quads and kids. It's hard to count spectators at one of these events because they're scattered all through the woods but I pretty sure total attendance will be way higher than the recent Motocross held there. I'm sure somewhere you can dig up ticket sales online. From my own eye the Moto attendance at Unadilla spectator Weis has definitely shrunk, can't speak of other tracks broome-tioga and Unadilla we're the only ones I ever attended. Could never understand why they got rid of broom , from watching on TV it seems like it pulled in much better crowds then some of these other tracks.

How much are the vip tickets at a gncc? How much for parking? Do they block off the good viewing spots and price them out of reach for great unwashed?

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8/22/2017 5:08 AM

While all motosports are dying slowly.. IMO motocross is killing. :FlameSuitOn:

Pro Guys can do the super rough gnarly tracks because they have works suspension, are in shape, practice several times a week, talet, etc. The companies and tracks are kept alive by the C class rider with no sponsorships yet no one seems to give a fuck about these riders. To me it seems that moto is becoming so expensive that its becoming the haves and have nots. Many times the "haves" are guys that grew up with bikes and just dont ride like they used to, this same group of people is buying from the one company that cares about them: KTM. Hardcore racers will disagree with me but C class and even D class are the only classes that are packed every practice and race that I have been to this year. I think the C/D class rider has become alienated to the point that they just dont want to ride motocross, they will put their money where they get more bang for their buck: GNCC.

I did a hare scramble this year and was blown away with the number of riders in every class and how inclusive it was. Doesnt matter if you have jeans and a XR200 or a sponsorship with Husky everyone is treated the same. That being said I dont know what it is about moto but it isnt welcoming at all, from the tracks, class structure, cost, peoples attitudes, etc. For some reason people on the fence just dont want to ride moto like they used to which directly translates to people not buying gear/parts etc that are MOTO related. Most of it translates to off road, hopefully you understand the point I am trying to make. Disagree with me all you want but I have rode pretty much every weekend the last two years in Michigan D14(one of the best districts for motocross) and C /D class(morelands) is always packed yet they design the tracks for A/B class riders. IMO take the GNCC approach where everyone is welcome, change the attitude so that its OK to bring a roached out 125 to the track, make the tracks so that the roached out 125 rider can have fun still, and try to sell a day of fun to the guy that can ride a bike and doesnt make 80 grand a year or the guy that does make 80 grand a year but has kids, a brand new KTM, and doesnt want to get hurt. Its like moto only wants to work with the moto crowd, not the "dirt bike" crowd. Hell make a XR100 class for adults to have fun, whatever it takes to get people in the gate and on 2 wheels.

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8/22/2017 5:10 AM

When TV rating were repprted supercross had risen in 2017. They are selling out stadiums and talks of expanding that series have been thrown around. Titles sponsors may change ever few years but thats the nature of business. I havent seen any numbers on what the outdoors are currently doing, but from what the TV broadcast shows most of those tracks are packed with people. I think professional moto is at one of it best spots

I can agree that the privateers life is slowly dying with the increasing cost to race, however that has always been a all risk no rewards situation outside of a few people who have gotten factory rides from it.

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I don't crash, I just run out of talent

8/22/2017 5:13 AM

Indy mxer wrote:

I was at a race Sunday at Lincoln Trail Motorsports in Casey IL and he had 437 entries. Guy does a great job with the track and preps as good as any I've seen. But from what I hear this may be more the exception.

Love Casey! We raced at Calhoun MX in GA and had to park in the overflow parking area. I don't know how many were there, but there were lots of big gates.

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Take it to the limit, one more time!

8/22/2017 5:17 AM

Motofinne wrote:

This is not a MX issue, this is a motorsport issue. Except maybe MotoGP. MotoGP is probably the only thriving motorsport in the world at the moment. Big props to Dorna, they have done amazing things with MotoGP.

F1 might be back on track since Bernie is out and Ross Brawn is in charge of the regulations etc.

RCF wrote:

I think it's an MX issue, off-road racing is growing like crazy. This past weekend we raced what is supposed to be the premiere series in our district for Motocross the attendance was a joke. Some of the races hand five classes in them and there still wasn't full Gates

Exactly. There are plenty of bikes being sold, but very few are making their way to the motocross track. The promoters are going to have to take some responsibility. Too many classes, no entry point for true beginner's, too much money for 4 lap motos, etc etc. The sport is a shell of its original self. Almost all tracks used to run two practice sessions before the races. Now there isn't time for that because they have 33 classes to run.

It's no wonder off road racing is growing exponentially. We actually have a promoter around here who is trying different stuff like cutting the classes down and running 10 minute timed motos. It's a start.

And where does a beginner race when the C class is made up of 22 year guys who raced since they were 6 years old and scrub the 80 foot table tops? Enforce the C class rules so that beginner's have a place to race.

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8/22/2017 5:26 AM

fox1nz wrote:

Blame the Energy Drink Companies I say. They have taken over and others no longer want to compete.

That is an absurdly stupid comment. No others want to compete? WTF are you talking about.

They are they only one's willing to pay enough money to sponsor. You should be worshiping them for keeping our sport on life support.

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2013 KTM 450SXF, 1983 YZ 250K, & 1983 CR 250

8/22/2017 5:29 AM

Indy mxer wrote:

I was at a race Sunday at Lincoln Trail Motorsports in Casey IL and he had 437 entries. Guy does a great job with the track and preps as good as any I've seen. But from what I hear this may be more the exception.

mx317 wrote:

Love Casey! We raced at Calhoun MX in GA and had to park in the overflow parking area. I don't know how many were there, but there were lots of big gates.

My favorite place to race here for sure!
The AMA amateur class system certainly doesn't help things. There is no reason that a local Sunday race should have 20 plus races. This leads to long race days with short motos. $35 is a lot to pay for 2 4 lap motos. Plus, it eats up so much time. Drop a bunch of the nonsense classes and you'll get fuller gates, longer motos, and shorter days.

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8/22/2017 5:30 AM

Motofinne wrote:

Yes you're right in that, offroad/enduro/CC is growing here in Finland too. People are moving over from MX to offroad disciplines because it's safer, cheaper and you get to ride/race more.

But i was mainly talking about "bigger" sports. MX and SX is really small and offroad is even smaller.

RCF wrote:

Are you talking spectator attendance or Rider attendance ,the upcoming GNCC at Unadilla will easily pull in 2000 plus Riders when you include the quads and kids. It's hard to count spectators at one of these events because they're scattered all through the woods but I pretty sure total attendance will be way higher than the recent Motocross held there. I'm sure somewhere you can dig up ticket sales online. From my own eye the Moto attendance at Unadilla spectator Weis has definitely shrunk, can't speak of other tracks broome-tioga and Unadilla we're the only ones I ever attended. Could never understand why they got rid of broom , from watching on TV it seems like it pulled in much better crowds then some of these other tracks.

JustMX wrote:

How much are the vip tickets at a gncc? How much for parking? Do they block off the good viewing spots and price them out of reach for great unwashed?

Everything is free at a GNCC, you pay twenty bucks to get in you have full access to the pro riders you even have full access to the track you're allowed to walk anywhere you want. Lot of the Spectators help out when riders are stuck. People will hike 8 miles into the woods just to stand by a mud hole. Like said post above it's a much different environment we started out racing motocross switch to Hare scrambles and was amazed how laid back the people seem to be.



Photo

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8/22/2017 5:57 AM

nascarnate326 wrote:

While all motosports are dying slowly.. IMO motocross is killing. :FlameSuitOn:

Pro Guys can do the super rough gnarly tracks because they have works suspension, are in shape, practice several times a week, talet, etc. The companies and tracks are kept alive by the C class rider with no sponsorships yet no one seems to give a fuck about these riders. To me it seems that moto is becoming so expensive that its becoming the haves and have nots. Many times the "haves" are guys that grew up with bikes and just dont ride like they used to, this same group of people is buying from the one company that cares about them: KTM. Hardcore racers will disagree with me but C class and even D class are the only classes that are packed every practice and race that I have been to this year. I think the C/D class rider has become alienated to the point that they just dont want to ride motocross, they will put their money where they get more bang for their buck: GNCC.

I did a hare scramble this year and was blown away with the number of riders in every class and how inclusive it was. Doesnt matter if you have jeans and a XR200 or a sponsorship with Husky everyone is treated the same. That being said I dont know what it is about moto but it isnt welcoming at all, from the tracks, class structure, cost, peoples attitudes, etc. For some reason people on the fence just dont want to ride moto like they used to which directly translates to people not buying gear/parts etc that are MOTO related. Most of it translates to off road, hopefully you understand the point I am trying to make. Disagree with me all you want but I have rode pretty much every weekend the last two years in Michigan D14(one of the best districts for motocross) and C /D class(morelands) is always packed yet they design the tracks for A/B class riders. IMO take the GNCC approach where everyone is welcome, change the attitude so that its OK to bring a roached out 125 to the track, make the tracks so that the roached out 125 rider can have fun still, and try to sell a day of fun to the guy that can ride a bike and doesnt make 80 grand a year or the guy that does make 80 grand a year but has kids, a brand new KTM, and doesnt want to get hurt. Its like moto only wants to work with the moto crowd, not the "dirt bike" crowd. Hell make a XR100 class for adults to have fun, whatever it takes to get people in the gate and on 2 wheels.

I agree with this. I go to the tracks in Michigan as well. On practice days the C class sessions are usually split into two groups. Then the A/B classes have varied turn outs. The track should be designed for 2/3 of the people. The double edged sword is sometimes the fast guys will just stop coming. Which lets all be honest people like to watch even in practice days.

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Midlife-moto.com

8/22/2017 6:01 AM

I see a lot of posts saying kids today don't get out of the house and do anything active, but what I see here in the KC MO area is the thousands of kids involved in stick-and-ball sports. Stick and ball has done an excellent job of creating a culture starting at the rec level and taking it all the way up to college and beyond. Soccer in particular is over the top. My 14 year old daughter is DA level and to see the facilities and organization of her sport and the amount of kids in these programs is amazing.
Every time I go to one of these facilities and see how much money is invested, it just blows my mind. And of course when I look at these wide open spaces with full lighting, turf fields etc, (oh and by the way they have it all set up for indoor practice/play during the winter as well, in buildings big enough for an indoor motocross track) I visualize how cool it would be to build a MX track there instead!
The culture around here is so big into baseball, basketball and football it's amazing to go to local tracks and still see 10 - 20 kids riding motocross. IMO...

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8/22/2017 6:15 AM
Edited Date/Time: 8/22/2017 6:23 AM

The whole Feld/SX thing is messed up. Attending the race isn't cheap but the riders don't get paid much.... Feld is pocketing all that money after they pay Ralph for 4 hours of shouting and interruptions. Not to mention Feld/fox control all the footage, I understand fox pays for the broadcasting rights, but dam at least let the riders post a brief helmet cam video or an interview from behind the scenes. Also there's no need to waste money on a monster thot who nervously talks about social media hashtags.


Motocross is good, imo. Jenny Taft would be a nice addition. But the thing killing motocross is them blocking all of the fucking viewing areas at the tracks. At Budds creek alot of the best viewing spots near the track were blocked off for WPS hospitality, or similar dealer invited guests suites. They were damn near empty! the folks in there were watching the race on TV if they were even watching. total bullshit. I ended up jumping over a fence to watch the 2nd motos.

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8/22/2017 6:28 AM

kevin.decker.125 wrote:

I see a lot of posts saying kids today don't get out of the house and do anything active, but what I see here in the KC MO area is the thousands of kids involved in stick-and-ball sports. Stick and ball has done an excellent job of creating a culture starting at the rec level and taking it all the way up to college and beyond. Soccer in particular is over the top. My 14 year old daughter is DA level and to see the facilities and organization of her sport and the amount of kids in these programs is amazing.
Every time I go to one of these facilities and see how much money is invested, it just blows my mind. And of course when I look at these wide open spaces with full lighting, turf fields etc, (oh and by the way they have it all set up for indoor practice/play during the winter as well, in buildings big enough for an indoor motocross track) I visualize how cool it would be to build a MX track there instead!
The culture around here is so big into baseball, basketball and football it's amazing to go to local tracks and still see 10 - 20 kids riding motocross. IMO...

Sticka nd ball sports are cheap and relatively safe (except football). Most of the organization income goes towards the facility at the amateur level. Imagine if you showed up at a track and all the value of the bikes and toy haulers was put into the facility, it would be really nice. Mx costs so much to enter compared to ball sports.

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8/22/2017 6:41 AM

Well at my local track englishtown this past weekend I heard C classes were just about a full gate and A class had 2 riders..

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8/22/2017 6:44 AM

kevin.decker.125 wrote:

I see a lot of posts saying kids today don't get out of the house and do anything active, but what I see here in the KC MO area is the thousands of kids involved in stick-and-ball sports. Stick and ball has done an excellent job of creating a culture starting at the rec level and taking it all the way up to college and beyond. Soccer in particular is over the top. My 14 year old daughter is DA level and to see the facilities and organization of her sport and the amount of kids in these programs is amazing.
Every time I go to one of these facilities and see how much money is invested, it just blows my mind. And of course when I look at these wide open spaces with full lighting, turf fields etc, (oh and by the way they have it all set up for indoor practice/play during the winter as well, in buildings big enough for an indoor motocross track) I visualize how cool it would be to build a MX track there instead!
The culture around here is so big into baseball, basketball and football it's amazing to go to local tracks and still see 10 - 20 kids riding motocross. IMO...

Those sports are dirt cheap and anyone can do them. Now a days most parents are all about safety. Hell parents near me voted to get playground equipment removed because it was dangerous. Those kids ain't touching a dirt bike anytime soon + the cost of riding is crazy expensive. Then you have to look at the places to ride if you have land or pits or have to pay everytime to ride

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8/22/2017 6:56 AM

They have priced themselves out of the average Joes wallet, period.

As others have already said..Race days.. too many classes so that Jr.. has a chance to be a winner. Ticked off all the others so no one hardly shows up to race days anymore. And all those classes for Jr.? Empty now too.

Most tracks have ditched racing and only open for practice days.

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