Pro Circuit Ti-6 Sytem for CRF 250 '18....HEAVY !!

tempura
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3/4/2018 8:25pm
I put a titanium, full carbon Yoshimura on my CRF (previous model) that I picked up very cheap ($250). It is several pounds lighter than the stock system and works better.
I probably wouldn't pay full price for one if it weighed the same as stock. $1300 can buy more performance than an exhaust.
mxb2
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3/4/2018 8:36pm
yz133rider wrote:
You guys all bashing nino dont know anything about him. Hes a very detailed dude and built some really nice bikes. But keep bashing him it...
You guys all bashing nino dont know anything about him. Hes a very detailed dude and built some really nice bikes. But keep bashing him it makes you all look great ?

He took like 20lbs off a 125 2 stroke. Theres not much to them to begin with!
mxb2 wrote:
Who is he then?
yz133rider wrote:
Im not friends with him like personally but have followed his builds and hes very detailed and thorough. On thumpertalk his build is like dozens of...
Im not friends with him like personally but have followed his builds and hes very detailed and thorough. On thumpertalk his build is like dozens of pages of replies and great info.

He didn't even really bash the exhaust just expected more than a couple ounces lighter from a $1300 ti exhaust which would seem reasonable to me to expect...
Ok
EZZA 95B
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3/4/2018 9:07pm
mxb2 wrote:
Who is he then?
yz133rider wrote:
Im not friends with him like personally but have followed his builds and hes very detailed and thorough. On thumpertalk his build is like dozens of...
Im not friends with him like personally but have followed his builds and hes very detailed and thorough. On thumpertalk his build is like dozens of pages of replies and great info.

He didn't even really bash the exhaust just expected more than a couple ounces lighter from a $1300 ti exhaust which would seem reasonable to me to expect...
mxb2 wrote:
Ok
Pretty sure he raced GP's? He has some trick bikes, I do know that!




luckynino
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3/4/2018 10:32pm Edited Date/Time 3/4/2018 10:41pm
Here's the thread on my VRP Mugen bike:
https://www.vitalmx.com/forums/Old-School-Moto,22/1990-VRP-Mugen-125-re…

BTW: At the time i had the japanese HRC tecnicians take pictures of my bike in the GP pits!

Just to show some TeamGreen rider that maybe i am around longer than him Wink

The older i get the more bikes i have.:
All 125cc twostrokes - i couldn't care less for fourstrokes....they're ALL too heavy anyway Wink


The Shop

ob
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3/5/2018 7:36am
luckynino wrote:
Here's the thread on my VRP Mugen bike: https://www.vitalmx.com/forums/Old-School-Moto,22/1990-VRP-Mugen-125-rebuilt,1279454 BTW: At the time i had the japanese HRC tecnicians take pictures of my bike in the...
Here's the thread on my VRP Mugen bike:
https://www.vitalmx.com/forums/Old-School-Moto,22/1990-VRP-Mugen-125-re…

BTW: At the time i had the japanese HRC tecnicians take pictures of my bike in the GP pits!

Just to show some TeamGreen rider that maybe i am around longer than him Wink

The older i get the more bikes i have.:
All 125cc twostrokes - i couldn't care less for fourstrokes....they're ALL too heavy anyway Wink


You won.
GPrider
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3/5/2018 8:24am
luckynino wrote:
Here's the thread on my VRP Mugen bike: https://www.vitalmx.com/forums/Old-School-Moto,22/1990-VRP-Mugen-125-rebuilt,1279454 BTW: At the time i had the japanese HRC tecnicians take pictures of my bike in the...
Here's the thread on my VRP Mugen bike:
https://www.vitalmx.com/forums/Old-School-Moto,22/1990-VRP-Mugen-125-re…

BTW: At the time i had the japanese HRC tecnicians take pictures of my bike in the GP pits!

Just to show some TeamGreen rider that maybe i am around longer than him Wink

The older i get the more bikes i have.:
All 125cc twostrokes - i couldn't care less for fourstrokes....they're ALL too heavy anyway Wink


bad ass!
JackLHyde
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3/5/2018 8:33am
While I don't care much about the specific topic here, I appreciate the input of everyone. I followed Ninos builds before.
Nino, do you have a summarized list of the weights you took available? Maybe we can get in touch through mail or phone, I'm from Germany.
Skerby
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3/5/2018 8:45am
You lost me at grams.
mx317
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3/5/2018 8:50am
When you go back and read old bike tests that actually weigh the bikes, you can see that the 97-98 KX250s for example weigh 232 lbs ready to ride with no gas. That is heavier than a KTM 450 much less a 250. Just think how light they could make a 350-400cc 2-stroke if they put the effort in like the 4-strokes. I would love a modern 350cc 2 banger!
luckynino
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3/5/2018 8:55am Edited Date/Time 3/5/2018 9:55am
JackLHyde wrote:
While I don't care much about the specific topic here, I appreciate the input of everyone. I followed Ninos builds before. Nino, do you have a...
While I don't care much about the specific topic here, I appreciate the input of everyone. I followed Ninos builds before.
Nino, do you have a summarized list of the weights you took available? Maybe we can get in touch through mail or phone, I'm from Germany.
I took pictures all along my various builds. You can find some of them in my Flickr-albums here:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/ottospeed/albums

Most of the weights are in my AF build though:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/ottospeed/albums/72157632570549639

Or in here:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/ottospeed/albums/72157649383024720

I had almost every part of my bikes on my scale. Only this way you can find lighter options. In the end it's the sum of all little savings here and there...

BTW: are you german? Sprichst du deutsch? Wink

This is the weight of my AF 125cc before i put handguards and a protection for my exhaust to get it to 88 kilos straight (lower weight limit for 125cc) Wink
Rest assured that a bike this light feels and rides like a bicycle. Many have tried a 125cc already and know that they already feel light. Now imagine them another 5 kilos lighter...and especially light wheels. It's unreal. I did it since i wanted to stick to my 125cc bikes , using my 30 year old Mugen engines....yet the races i do with that AF usually i face competition riding modern 450s. So i concentrated on improving the 125s strong point which is it's little weight. I managed to get it so light to be competitive against tricked out 450s !

GrapeApe
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3/5/2018 9:06am
This guys problem is he bought the wrong system. He has the Ti 6 PRO, he should have bought the non-pro. It has shorter mufflers and...
This guys problem is he bought the wrong system. He has the Ti 6 PRO, he should have bought the non-pro. It has shorter mufflers and less weight
This thread really should have ended right here.
seth505
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3/5/2018 9:47am Edited Date/Time 3/5/2018 9:48am
Mx286 wrote:
This guy gets it. Unless your building a full blown race bike for a serious racer, what’s the point? Never understood why people spend so much...
This guy gets it.


Unless your building a full blown race bike for a serious racer, what’s the point? Never understood why people spend so much money to save just a few lbs when it’s not going to gain hp or make them a bit faster. Want a light bike, go get a KTM.
luckynino wrote:
You still didn't get the point: HP is felt in acceleration only. Weight on the other hand is felt 4 times, and makes you actually faster...
You still didn't get the point:
HP is felt in acceleration only.

Weight on the other hand is felt 4 times, and makes you actually faster while tiring out less! But as long as you haven't ridden a light bike it's useless to argue with you.

The idea behind this Titanium exhaust was to improve HP AND drop some weight at the same time.
kiwifan wrote:
Have you even ridden a 18 CFR250R? if you did then you WOULD know that there is no way you feel the extra weight on the...
Have you even ridden a 18 CFR250R? if you did then you WOULD know that there is no way you feel the extra weight on the track, some test riders have even commented that it feels lighter on the track than a KTM/Husky....so how does that translate into making them more tired??

JackLHyde
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3/5/2018 9:48am
luckynino wrote:
I took pictures all along my various builds. You can find some of them in my Flickr-albums here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/ottospeed/albums Most of the weights are in my...
I took pictures all along my various builds. You can find some of them in my Flickr-albums here:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/ottospeed/albums

Most of the weights are in my AF build though:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/ottospeed/albums/72157632570549639

Or in here:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/ottospeed/albums/72157649383024720

I had almost every part of my bikes on my scale. Only this way you can find lighter options. In the end it's the sum of all little savings here and there...

BTW: are you german? Sprichst du deutsch? Wink

This is the weight of my AF 125cc before i put handguards and a protection for my exhaust to get it to 88 kilos straight (lower weight limit for 125cc) Wink
Rest assured that a bike this light feels and rides like a bicycle. Many have tried a 125cc already and know that they already feel light. Now imagine them another 5 kilos lighter...and especially light wheels. It's unreal. I did it since i wanted to stick to my 125cc bikes , using my 30 year old Mugen engines....yet the races i do with that AF usually i face competition riding modern 450s. So i concentrated on improving the 125s strong point which is it's little weight. I managed to get it so light to be competitive against tricked out 450s !

Ok danke. Deutsch, Englisch und ein paar Brocken Russisch. Holländisch kann ich verstehen, aber nicht sprechen.
Bruce372
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3/5/2018 9:51am
Nino wins!

Super cool bike and great moto background.

luckynino
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3/5/2018 11:45am Edited Date/Time 3/5/2018 11:49am
After a lot of bla-bla....let's get more numbers here:

The PC exhaust got installed...and together with the other modifications it really offers a huge increase over the stocker.

Stock the bike had 38,3 HP on that same dyno

RED:
opened up airbox
instead of the weird shaped intake collector we put the CRF 450 collector which is much better shaped
(No weird rectangular angles in the gas stream like the 250!)
Stock exhaust
Stock mapping

The 450 intake collector already showed a 1HP gain!

BLUE:
opened up airbox
450 intake collector
head work by swiss tuner
stock exhaust
stock mapping

GREEN:
opened up airbox
CRF 450 intake collector
head work by swiss tuner
PRO Circuit Ti-6 exhaust
Mapping (a sensor got brazed on to be able to do precise mapping)

A whopping increase from down low but especially the overrev now offers serious pull while the stocker would already stop pulling after 12'000 RPM. Now it offers endless pull up to the limiter.

Torque is much improved as well from down-low to the very top. A huge difference.

Still no real track testing but riding the bike in front of the house already showed a dramatic change. No comparison!



Here's the stock 250 intake collector.
By just looking at this 250 collector you would think if the japanese engineers had a little too much Sake Wink


This is the 450 (and additionally my friend is a strong believer in rough surfaces everywhere gas flows to improve airflow. That's why he actually sands all parts with a super rough grain). The 450 intake is much more aerodynamically shaped. BIIIG difference.


So now we have some numbers too. Too bad not just for the Pro Circuit alone (on a stock engine) but paired to the head work and mapping it makes for a massive power gain.



luckynino
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3/5/2018 12:07pm Edited Date/Time 3/5/2018 12:10pm
JackLHyde wrote:
May the tuner be Zachmann?
No
You have to know that my friend and Sigi Zachmann back in the days were fierce opponents and not very much on the same "vibe". My friend would never go there to have his bikes tuned Wink

My friend was multi-time swiss champion and once lost a championship on the green table to Sigi Zachmann when that guy put a claim when my friend arrived a couple seconds late to the pre-start of the final race of the year (which he then also won). But he got disqualified and obviously since the the "friendship" wasn't the best anymore...
JackLHyde
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3/5/2018 12:14pm
luckynino wrote:
No You have to know that my friend and Sigi Zachmann back in the days were fierce opponents and not very much on the same "vibe"...
No
You have to know that my friend and Sigi Zachmann back in the days were fierce opponents and not very much on the same "vibe". My friend would never go there to have his bikes tuned Wink

My friend was multi-time swiss champion and once lost a championship on the green table to Sigi Zachmann when that guy put a claim when my friend arrived a couple seconds late to the pre-start of the final race of the year (which he then also won). But he got disqualified and obviously since the the "friendship" wasn't the best anymore...
Ok.
Zachmann is the only Swiss tuner I know, I think I've heard he did Seewers Suzukis in the beginning.
TeamGreen
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3/5/2018 12:55pm
Wait a minute....

So, uh, the PC pipe DOES WORK?

And it meets AMA/FIM sound?
Motofinne
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3/5/2018 12:58pm Edited Date/Time 3/5/2018 1:01pm
TeamGreen wrote:
Wait a minute....

So, uh, the PC pipe DOES WORK?

And it meets AMA/FIM sound?
Did Nino ever claim that it wouldn't perform? This thread had nothing to do with the performance on a dyno of the pipe? Or am i misunderstanding things, English isn't my native language.

I like your input on this forum but you have completely lost the plot in this case.
yz133rider
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3/5/2018 1:00pm
TeamGreen wrote:
Wait a minute....

So, uh, the PC pipe DOES WORK?

And it meets AMA/FIM sound?
Lol are you done? Generally love your input in threads but quite abrasive in this one.
Bruce372
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3/5/2018 1:00pm
TeamGreen wrote:
Wait a minute....

So, uh, the PC pipe DOES WORK?

And it meets AMA/FIM sound?
Yes, the bike was slow and heavy . Now it's just heavy.
.kyle
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3/5/2018 1:17pm
TeamGreen wrote:
Wait a minute....

So, uh, the PC pipe DOES WORK?

And it meets AMA/FIM sound?
Motofinne wrote:
Did Nino ever claim that it wouldn't perform? This thread had nothing to do with the performance on a dyno of the pipe? Or am i...
Did Nino ever claim that it wouldn't perform? This thread had nothing to do with the performance on a dyno of the pipe? Or am i misunderstanding things, English isn't my native language.

I like your input on this forum but you have completely lost the plot in this case.
x2
wsc96
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3/5/2018 1:44pm
yz133rider wrote:
Lol are you done? Generally love your input in threads but quite abrasive in this one.
Same. Seems to have an axe to grind.

Thanks for the info Nino.
TeamGreen
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3/5/2018 1:52pm
TeamGreen wrote:
Wait a minute....

So, uh, the PC pipe DOES WORK?

And it meets AMA/FIM sound?
yz133rider wrote:
Lol are you done? Generally love your input in threads but quite abrasive in this one.
It's because the point of WHY the Performance Exhaust System WEIGHS what it does was lost in a rant about weight...
About the weight when compared to a POS stock system that's too damn loud...too damn complicated...to fragile...and..again..."NOT legal" in most serious pro racing programs.
Oh, by the way, that stick system doesn't work too well...either...which is another point at the core of my argument.

Making things light is one thing.
Making these light and actually "better" is another.

And, yes, I take this stuff SERIOUSLY.
It's what I do.
TeamGreen
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3/5/2018 1:53pm
TeamGreen wrote:
Wait a minute....

So, uh, the PC pipe DOES WORK?

And it meets AMA/FIM sound?
Bruce372 wrote:
Yes, the bike was slow and heavy . Now it's just heavy.
And that's not an easy or inexpensive thing to solve on this model.
3/5/2018 11:38pm
Wow. This one got under your skin Manny. Maybe there's more story to weave at the end?
make1go
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3/6/2018 12:44am
Wow. This one got under your skin Manny. Maybe there's more story to weave at the end?
Everyones allowed a little internet flounce, it is up to the individual to show some contrition and humility if proven to be off base.
luckynino
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3/6/2018 1:33am Edited Date/Time 3/6/2018 5:15am
@TeamGreen:
sorry if i hurt your feelings!

But i just passed some facts on this exhaust. Most others would just post a picture and drool over the bling-bling factor of the dual carbon endcaps...sorry: i'm not that kind of consumer. Honestly - for me a bike with a dual-exhaust is the biggest rubbish you could possibly offer. Putting twice the weight high up on the bike and still get less power? Ridiculous. I'm a diehard Honda rider since 30 years....but for me the little CRF is too far off the competition.

When choosing an exhaust for the '18 CRF 250 power was not the only priority. We definitely would have liked to shed some weight as the CRF is suffering not only powerwise but is also overweight.

I showed verified weights and it is not as light as most hope for when paying this kind of money for a full titanium exhaust.
BUT i also showed the Dyno-numbers to show that at least the power seems ok.

We should get some more numbers soon from testing both Yoshimura and HGS exhaust systems. It will be interesting to see those power numbers and weights as well and how they compare to the PC system.
newmann
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3/6/2018 5:40am
Typical Nino thread. Good delivery, details and follow through. Throw in a few people bashing him for counting grams and a couple more telling people to go be poor somewhere else. Oh, and the pics of the trick as shit two strokes. Smile

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