Pro Circuit Ti-6 Sytem for CRF 250 '18....HEAVY !!

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3/1/2018 4:17 AM
Edited Date/Time: 3/6/2018 12:38 AM

My friend got his brandnew CRF 250 '18 a few weeks ago and after we verified it's weight (overweight) we started looking for ways to get her lighter...the stock dual exhaust was one of the items we checked and it indeed weighs a hefty 4700g / 10,7 lbs

We then took those heatshields off as well as the resonance chamber (Yoshi & PC come without it as well)...this alone was worth over half a kilo (511g = 1,1 lbs)
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This way the stock exhaust weighed 4200g = 9,25 lbs

Modified and slimmed stock exhaust:
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Now my friend obviously still wasn't happy and while hoping to improve the lackluster power he hoped for a nice weight loss when ordering a full Titanium exhaust system...so he just got his new Pro Circuit exhaust system for his CRF 250 2018

TI-6 PRO DUAL CARBON TI-SYSTEM, CRF250R '2018

He really hoped to shed some weight to help the overweight CRF regain some ground...well - NOT SO!

The Pro Circuit Ti system is still quite heavy: 4100g = 9,04 lbs (so just 100g lighter than the modified stocker wink )

No review on how it performs as we have super-low temperatures and snow over here in Switzerland. But the weight loss was really minimal at best and a big disappointment! Lets hope it rocks the house at least powerwise...

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3/1/2018 5:18 AM

Perhaps the stock system is light?

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3/1/2018 5:25 AM

The lightness is in your wallet.

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3/1/2018 5:30 AM

In a recent podcast with Matthes, Doug Dubach had some interesting insight regarding dual pipes. It's definitely worth a listen.

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3/1/2018 5:45 AM

I think starting off with a motorcycle with a dual exhaust is the problem here, although I would feel the same frustration as your friend.

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3/1/2018 5:48 AM

IMO 1-2lbs is pretty typical. Its not like your going from a dual muffler to a single.

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Race Bike: 2018 KTM 350SXF

Other Bikes: 1985 CR80R, 1990 CR250R, 1998 PW80, Specialized Fuse Comp 29.

Sold: 2016 YZ250F, 2012 CRF250R

3/1/2018 5:56 AM

early wrote:

In a recent podcast with Matthes, Doug Dubach had some interesting insight regarding dual pipes. It's definitely worth a listen.

which one

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3/1/2018 5:59 AM

early wrote:

In a recent podcast with Matthes, Doug Dubach had some interesting insight regarding dual pipes. It's definitely worth a listen.

wideopen198 wrote:

which one

http://racerxonline.com/2018/02/07/fly-racing-racer-x-podcast-doug-dubach

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3/1/2018 6:02 AM
Edited Date/Time: 3/1/2018 6:03 AM

This sounds perfectly normal to me man. Perhaps you guys should have researched the weights before ordering? Making a thread online just to call it HEAVY! is kind of silly.

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3/1/2018 6:06 AM

Like others said, a couple pounds is normal. You pay for the titanium mostly.

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3/1/2018 6:39 AM

He bought a bike with electric start and twin exhaust system...
Want light, buy a new KTM/husky 125 2stroke.

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"Nothing happens until something moves"

3/1/2018 6:42 AM

tempura wrote:

He bought a bike with electric start and twin exhaust system...
Want light, buy a new KTM/husky 125 2stroke.

Or ktm 250f

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3/1/2018 7:33 AM

early wrote:

In a recent podcast with Matthes, Doug Dubach had some interesting insight regarding dual pipes. It's definitely worth a listen.

And what did they say?

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3/1/2018 8:06 AM
Edited Date/Time: 3/1/2018 8:06 AM

twotwosix wrote:

This sounds perfectly normal to me man. Perhaps you guys should have researched the weights before ordering? Making a thread online just to call it HEAVY! is kind of silly.

I am a hardcore twostroke rider and specialized in low weight. I managed to save over 8,5 kilos / 18 lbs on my CR 125cc....and while doing so put everything on my scale and put everything online so people get reliable and verified weights. IF i would have the 2018 CRF 250 my No. 1 priority would be to get rid of those 5 kilos/ 11 lbs overweight!

Now - YOU tell me a reliable source for exhaust weights! There is noone telling you....

There is none available. On a typical Titanium single exhaust system the savings usually are in the 2 lbs region. So having actually 2 exhausts expectations were definitely higher for sure.

My thread is to let people know that at least regarding weight the expense for a titanium Po Circuit system isn't worth it.
Let's hope it rips on track....i will let you guys know.

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3/1/2018 8:23 AM

Good work Nino, thanks for reporting.
I don't own a CRF250 but it's good to see stuff like this. If more people reported their findings it would give everyone else the chance to make a more informed decision before dumping a load of money only to be disappointed.

It appears as though Honda have made a fairly light stock system, or the Pro Circuit guys didn't put huge effort into weight savings. Hopefully the performance gains make it a more worthwhile investment!

p.s. im still running your fat bike innertube mod with great success. £8 for a 400g plus saving, still one of the most effective mods I've ever come across, thanks!

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@russ_69

3/1/2018 8:30 AM

your not going to go any faster if its even four pounds lighter. Get an exhaust to help the bottom end, forget about the weight! Quit listening to MXA. If the KTM/Husky did not exist, the weight argument would have never happened, Its in everybody's head. Fricken RMZ450 2018 is a perfect example. The new honda handles like a dream. Just fill in the weak spot in the powerband and go kill it!

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3/1/2018 8:56 AM
Edited Date/Time: 3/1/2018 9:13 AM

kb228 wrote:

Like others said, a couple pounds is normal. You pay for the titanium mostly.

Right.

But according to the OP, it isn't a couple of pounds lighter. Or even one pound lighter. Once you omit the standard guards that the Pro Circuit design doesn't include, it is just over two-tenths of a pound lighter.

If it was a couple of pounds lighter, it sounds like he may be satisfied.

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3/1/2018 8:56 AM

It would be interesting to see the weight of the stainless PC version compared to the PC ti your friend has.

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3/1/2018 8:57 AM

GPrider wrote:

your not going to go any faster if its even four pounds lighter. Get an exhaust to help the bottom end, forget about the weight! Quit listening to MXA. If the KTM/Husky did not exist, the weight argument would have never happened, Its in everybody's head. Fricken RMZ450 2018 is a perfect example. The new honda handles like a dream. Just fill in the weak spot in the powerband and go kill it!

Well - you obviously have never ridden a light bike, right?

Ever wonder why a 125cc feels so freaking light? It is flickable and you can throw it around like a bicycle...THAT'S THE WEIGHT , or better the lack of it you feel there! Weight for me is No.1 priority for ages already. As mentioned above i got my 125cc to weigh just 194 lbs and i can tell you it feels like a bicycle. That's 15 kilos / 33 lbs less than a 250F !!!

Less weight can be felt 4 times:

acceleration (lighter accelerates faster)
braking (lighter brakes later)
cornering (lighter bike is more flickable and let's you change line with ease)
fatigue (it tires you less to grip a light bike)

Horsepower instead is an advantage in acceleration only

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3/1/2018 9:14 AM

RussB wrote:

Good work Nino, thanks for reporting.
I don't own a CRF250 but it's good to see stuff like this. If more people reported their findings it would give everyone else the chance to make a more informed decision before dumping a load of money only to be disappointed.

It appears as though Honda have made a fairly light stock system, or the Pro Circuit guys didn't put huge effort into weight savings. Hopefully the performance gains make it a more worthwhile investment!

p.s. im still running your fat bike innertube mod with great success. £8 for a 400g plus saving, still one of the most effective mods I've ever come across, thanks!

Please explain this innertube mod? Im interested.

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Definition: A loser, poser, lame-ass. One who talks the talk, but could never walk the walk.

One who talks shit and doesn't back it up, but rather ends up eating their shit in return. A fuckin 'tard.


Usage: Slang

3/1/2018 9:18 AM

GPrider wrote:

your not going to go any faster if its even four pounds lighter. Get an exhaust to help the bottom end, forget about the weight! Quit listening to MXA. If the KTM/Husky did not exist, the weight argument would have never happened, Its in everybody's head. Fricken RMZ450 2018 is a perfect example. The new honda handles like a dream. Just fill in the weak spot in the powerband and go kill it!

luckynino wrote:

Well - you obviously have never ridden a light bike, right?

Ever wonder why a 125cc feels so freaking light? It is flickable and you can throw it around like a bicycle...THAT'S THE WEIGHT , or better the lack of it you feel there! Weight for me is No.1 priority for ages already. As mentioned above i got my 125cc to weigh just 194 lbs and i can tell you it feels like a bicycle. That's 15 kilos / 33 lbs less than a 250F !!!

Less weight can be felt 4 times:

acceleration (lighter accelerates faster)
braking (lighter brakes later)
cornering (lighter bike is more flickable and let's you change line with ease)
fatigue (it tires you less to grip a light bike)

Horsepower instead is an advantage in acceleration only

The reason a 125 feels so light and flickable has more to do with the lessened gyroscopic effect and inertia of a smaller piston and crank than the actual weight difference of the bike in it's entirety. Same reason a KTM 350 handles better than a KTM 450 even though the weight difference is virtually nothing.

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3/1/2018 9:25 AM

GPrider wrote:

your not going to go any faster if its even four pounds lighter. Get an exhaust to help the bottom end, forget about the weight! Quit listening to MXA. If the KTM/Husky did not exist, the weight argument would have never happened, Its in everybody's head. Fricken RMZ450 2018 is a perfect example. The new honda handles like a dream. Just fill in the weak spot in the powerband and go kill it!

But the Austrian bikes do exist, and are exposing the other bikes as being overweight. The point should also be noted that a light bike will always accelerate and brake quicker even if it does not "feel" lighter.

This thread also proves that Honda definitely put some effort into the stock system...

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Tomac and/or Anderson for 2020.....

3/1/2018 9:25 AM

GPrider wrote:

your not going to go any faster if its even four pounds lighter. Get an exhaust to help the bottom end, forget about the weight! Quit listening to MXA. If the KTM/Husky did not exist, the weight argument would have never happened, Its in everybody's head. Fricken RMZ450 2018 is a perfect example. The new honda handles like a dream. Just fill in the weak spot in the powerband and go kill it!

luckynino wrote:

Well - you obviously have never ridden a light bike, right?

Ever wonder why a 125cc feels so freaking light? It is flickable and you can throw it around like a bicycle...THAT'S THE WEIGHT , or better the lack of it you feel there! Weight for me is No.1 priority for ages already. As mentioned above i got my 125cc to weigh just 194 lbs and i can tell you it feels like a bicycle. That's 15 kilos / 33 lbs less than a 250F !!!

Less weight can be felt 4 times:

acceleration (lighter accelerates faster)
braking (lighter brakes later)
cornering (lighter bike is more flickable and let's you change line with ease)
fatigue (it tires you less to grip a light bike)

Horsepower instead is an advantage in acceleration only

SPYGUY wrote:

The reason a 125 feels so light and flickable has more to do with the lessened gyroscopic effect and inertia of a smaller piston and crank than the actual weight difference of the bike in it's entirety. Same reason a KTM 350 handles better than a KTM 450 even though the weight difference is virtually nothing.

I think this gyroscopic effect talk is getting out of hand personally.

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3/1/2018 9:34 AM

luckynino wrote:

Well - you obviously have never ridden a light bike, right?

Ever wonder why a 125cc feels so freaking light? It is flickable and you can throw it around like a bicycle...THAT'S THE WEIGHT , or better the lack of it you feel there! Weight for me is No.1 priority for ages already. As mentioned above i got my 125cc to weigh just 194 lbs and i can tell you it feels like a bicycle. That's 15 kilos / 33 lbs less than a 250F !!!

Less weight can be felt 4 times:

acceleration (lighter accelerates faster)
braking (lighter brakes later)
cornering (lighter bike is more flickable and let's you change line with ease)
fatigue (it tires you less to grip a light bike)

Horsepower instead is an advantage in acceleration only

SPYGUY wrote:

The reason a 125 feels so light and flickable has more to do with the lessened gyroscopic effect and inertia of a smaller piston and crank than the actual weight difference of the bike in it's entirety. Same reason a KTM 350 handles better than a KTM 450 even though the weight difference is virtually nothing.

yz133rider wrote:

I think this gyroscopic effect talk is getting out of hand personally.

I agree. Yes my 125 has less rotating mass than your 450. But you don't think the fact that a 1985 CR125 has nearly 50 lbs less total mass, and it's all down low, has much the majority to do with why it handles like a mountain bike compared to a modern 450?

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3/1/2018 9:42 AM

GPrider wrote:

your not going to go any faster if its even four pounds lighter. Get an exhaust to help the bottom end, forget about the weight! Quit listening to MXA. If the KTM/Husky did not exist, the weight argument would have never happened, Its in everybody's head. Fricken RMZ450 2018 is a perfect example. The new honda handles like a dream. Just fill in the weak spot in the powerband and go kill it!

Amen lol half the guys on here won’t notice the difference. Whether it’s a Suzuki or ktm they will probably go the same speed

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3/1/2018 9:44 AM

SPYGUY wrote:

The reason a 125 feels so light and flickable has more to do with the lessened gyroscopic effect and inertia of a smaller piston and crank than the actual weight difference of the bike in it's entirety. Same reason a KTM 350 handles better than a KTM 450 even though the weight difference is virtually nothing.

yz133rider wrote:

I think this gyroscopic effect talk is getting out of hand personally.

Dirty Points wrote:

I agree. Yes my 125 has less rotating mass than your 450. But you don't think the fact that a 1985 CR125 has nearly 50 lbs less total mass, and it's all down low, has much the majority to do with why it handles like a mountain bike compared to a modern 450?

Yep. Modern 450s feel like tanks because they are.
Four strokes all have gained significant weight since like 08 or so. And they were already significantly heavier than the 2 strokes were.

Ktm IS crushing it with getting weights back down.

Ama needs to drop the weight minimums they are too high for the four strokes.

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3/1/2018 9:47 AM

yz133rider wrote:

I think this gyroscopic effect talk is getting out of hand personally.

If anything is getting out of hand it's all the talk from novice riders about how they can feel the added comfort via the additional flex that a steel frame provides.

As for gyroscopic effect, if you ride a KTM 250, 350 and 450 back to back to back, you'll notice a distinct difference in handling even though the weight on the scale isn't much different.

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3/1/2018 9:47 AM

GPrider wrote:

your not going to go any faster if its even four pounds lighter. Get an exhaust to help the bottom end, forget about the weight! Quit listening to MXA. If the KTM/Husky did not exist, the weight argument would have never happened, Its in everybody's head. Fricken RMZ450 2018 is a perfect example. The new honda handles like a dream. Just fill in the weak spot in the powerband and go kill it!

luckynino wrote:

Well - you obviously have never ridden a light bike, right?

Ever wonder why a 125cc feels so freaking light? It is flickable and you can throw it around like a bicycle...THAT'S THE WEIGHT , or better the lack of it you feel there! Weight for me is No.1 priority for ages already. As mentioned above i got my 125cc to weigh just 194 lbs and i can tell you it feels like a bicycle. That's 15 kilos / 33 lbs less than a 250F !!!

Less weight can be felt 4 times:

acceleration (lighter accelerates faster)
braking (lighter brakes later)
cornering (lighter bike is more flickable and let's you change line with ease)
fatigue (it tires you less to grip a light bike)

Horsepower instead is an advantage in acceleration only

SPYGUY wrote:

The reason a 125 feels so light and flickable has more to do with the lessened gyroscopic effect and inertia of a smaller piston and crank than the actual weight difference of the bike in it's entirety. Same reason a KTM 350 handles better than a KTM 450 even though the weight difference is virtually nothing.

And don't forget about how the weight is distributed. That's why the Honda, being the same weight as the Yamaha and Suzuki, feels just as light as the KTM. To me, weight doesn't matter. I'm not a guy that's throwing my bike around over every jump.

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2017 RMZ450
2005 YZ250-sold :,(
1998 YZ250
2005 KX250F

80% of the time it works every time
IG @hammerfamily_4 & @2HRacing
Thanks to : Factory Effex, N2Dirt, Acerbis, DT1, Fasthouse, Matix, FMF, ASV, 100% & Mika Metals

3/1/2018 9:48 AM

SPYGUY wrote:

The reason a 125 feels so light and flickable has more to do with the lessened gyroscopic effect and inertia of a smaller piston and crank than the actual weight difference of the bike in it's entirety. Same reason a KTM 350 handles better than a KTM 450 even though the weight difference is virtually nothing.

yz133rider wrote:

I think this gyroscopic effect talk is getting out of hand personally.

SPYGUY wrote:

If anything is getting out of hand it's all the talk from novice riders about how they can feel the added comfort via the additional flex that a steel frame provides.

As for gyroscopic effect, if you ride a KTM 250, 350 and 450 back to back to back, you'll notice a distinct difference in handling even though the weight on the scale isn't much different.

Righ, but the weight on the scale is significantly different (as is the effect on handling) to that of a 125.

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3/1/2018 9:53 AM

SPYGUY wrote:

The reason a 125 feels so light and flickable has more to do with the lessened gyroscopic effect and inertia of a smaller piston and crank than the actual weight difference of the bike in it's entirety. Same reason a KTM 350 handles better than a KTM 450 even though the weight difference is virtually nothing.

yz133rider wrote:

I think this gyroscopic effect talk is getting out of hand personally.

SPYGUY wrote:

If anything is getting out of hand it's all the talk from novice riders about how they can feel the added comfort via the additional flex that a steel frame provides.

As for gyroscopic effect, if you ride a KTM 250, 350 and 450 back to back to back, you'll notice a distinct difference in handling even though the weight on the scale isn't much different.

I think that feeling has more to do with how the bikes make power and deliver it. 450s are so torquey they push u around even in low rpms and low throttle inputs. That causes the suspension to load more, rider to feel more fatiqued, bumps to feel worse etc.

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