Pro Circuit Kawasaki

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11/15/2020 3:09 PM

Anyone want to try to explain how once was the most sought after and prime team fell from grace?
I remember back in the 2010s where PC Kawis were going 1,2,3 every motocross and supercross race like Star Racing Yamaha (and the defunct Geico Honda Team) are today.
Now it seems like if you want to win a championship you need to be on a Star Racing Machine.

Anyone have any ideas/opinions why this is? Is it because they don't have the cash to hire champion racers? Is the 250 Kawi engine not as competitive as it once was? Is it leadership? Is it the program?

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11/15/2020 3:14 PM

They lost there technological advantage. Mitch was quick to embrace 4st technology and invested wisely in it.

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11/15/2020 3:17 PM

Cayden Thompson wrote:

Anyone want to try to explain how once was the most sought after and prime team fell from grace?
I remember back in the 2010s where PC Kawis were going 1,2,3 every motocross and supercross race like Star Racing Yamaha (and the defunct Geico Honda Team) are today.
Now it seems like if you want to win a championship you need to be on a Star Racing Machine.

Anyone have any ideas/opinions why this is? Is it because they don't have the cash to hire champion racers? Is the 250 Kawi engine not as competitive as it once was? Is it leadership? Is it the program?

Mitch invested in 4 stroke testing/knowledge long before the other teams did, including hiring Drino Miller (RIP). The other teams have caught up. Pretty simple really.

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11/15/2020 3:19 PM

Cayden Thompson wrote:

Anyone want to try to explain how once was the most sought after and prime team fell from grace?
I remember back in the 2010s where PC Kawis were going 1,2,3 every motocross and supercross race like Star Racing Yamaha (and the defunct Geico Honda Team) are today.
Now it seems like if you want to win a championship you need to be on a Star Racing Machine.

Anyone have any ideas/opinions why this is? Is it because they don't have the cash to hire champion racers? Is the 250 Kawi engine not as competitive as it once was? Is it leadership? Is it the program?

avidchimp wrote:

Mitch invested in 4 stroke testing/knowledge long before the other teams did, including hiring Drino Miller (RIP). The other teams have caught up. Pretty simple really.

I agree with this statement, but is 2019 mx champ and should have been double sx champ really that far fallen from grace?

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11/15/2020 3:20 PM

Flattrack88 wrote:

I agree with this statement, but is 2019 mx champ and should have been double sx champ really that far fallen from grace?

Definitely not. Much more rider error than Pro Circuit dropping the ball.

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11/15/2020 3:23 PM

Cayden Thompson wrote:

Anyone want to try to explain how once was the most sought after and prime team fell from grace?
I remember back in the 2010s where PC Kawis were going 1,2,3 every motocross and supercross race like Star Racing Yamaha (and the defunct Geico Honda Team) are today.
Now it seems like if you want to win a championship you need to be on a Star Racing Machine.

Anyone have any ideas/opinions why this is? Is it because they don't have the cash to hire champion racers? Is the 250 Kawi engine not as competitive as it once was? Is it leadership? Is it the program?

avidchimp wrote:

Mitch invested in 4 stroke testing/knowledge long before the other teams did, including hiring Drino Miller (RIP). The other teams have caught up. Pretty simple really.

Flattrack88 wrote:

I agree with this statement, but is 2019 mx champ and should have been double sx champ really that far fallen from grace?

I agree, what I mean by "fall of grace" is it is not the most prestigious team to be on today.

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11/15/2020 3:26 PM
Edited Date/Time: 11/15/2020 4:21 PM

Is it called life and also something that YZ has inverted that has been discussed here quite few times already.

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11/15/2020 3:29 PM

Pc almost won East, West, and Won outdoors in 2019 they are still a team riders want to be on.

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11/15/2020 3:29 PM

I think if you took any mini parent aside, and asked them confidentially, what team would you most like to see your kid on when he turns pro?

I am confident the majority will say PC

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11/15/2020 3:33 PM

If Forkner doesn’t get hurt, this isn’t even a topic of conversation

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11/15/2020 3:33 PM

Yamaha has a superior platform than kawi

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Alright Lunger, Let's Do It

11/15/2020 3:33 PM

EngIceDave wrote:

I think if you took any mini parent aside, and asked them confidentially, what team would you most like to see your kid on when he turns pro?

I am confident the majority will say PC

I beg to differ.

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11/15/2020 3:34 PM

Johnny Ringo wrote:

Yamaha has a superior platform than kawi

Are you referring to the motor package? Or all around?

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11/15/2020 3:56 PM

That Johnny Ringo,think that the bike,and not the rider win races,i AM allmost sure ,he has never raced

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11/15/2020 4:20 PM

AC not winning a title was an AC problem, not a PC problem.

Same for Forkner

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11/15/2020 4:32 PM

Cayden Thompson wrote:

Anyone want to try to explain how once was the most sought after and prime team fell from grace?
I remember back in the 2010s where PC Kawis were going 1,2,3 every motocross and supercross race like Star Racing Yamaha (and the defunct Geico Honda Team) are today.
Now it seems like if you want to win a championship you need to be on a Star Racing Machine.

Anyone have any ideas/opinions why this is? Is it because they don't have the cash to hire champion racers? Is the 250 Kawi engine not as competitive as it once was? Is it leadership? Is it the program?

I’ll say the biggest reason for this mythical fall has been bad decision by riders that have cost Mitch 3 supercross titles in the past two years.

The second biggest reason is a reversed cylinder design that literally shoves air down the throat of a monster efi system.
For those of you who don’t understand the naturally aspirated engine, the more air the better.

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11/15/2020 4:41 PM

Cayden Thompson wrote:

Anyone want to try to explain how once was the most sought after and prime team fell from grace?
I remember back in the 2010s where PC Kawis were going 1,2,3 every motocross and supercross race like Star Racing Yamaha (and the defunct Geico Honda Team) are today.
Now it seems like if you want to win a championship you need to be on a Star Racing Machine.

Anyone have any ideas/opinions why this is? Is it because they don't have the cash to hire champion racers? Is the 250 Kawi engine not as competitive as it once was? Is it leadership? Is it the program?

Four strokes. Most engine builders from the car side can dial inns four-stroke. Took the moto right out of racing. Flow, velocity and pulse changed the game. Now how you doing 🤣

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11/15/2020 4:43 PM

Cayden Thompson wrote:

Anyone want to try to explain how once was the most sought after and prime team fell from grace?
I remember back in the 2010s where PC Kawis were going 1,2,3 every motocross and supercross race like Star Racing Yamaha (and the defunct Geico Honda Team) are today.
Now it seems like if you want to win a championship you need to be on a Star Racing Machine.

Anyone have any ideas/opinions why this is? Is it because they don't have the cash to hire champion racers? Is the 250 Kawi engine not as competitive as it once was? Is it leadership? Is it the program?

AND it starts....now that JGR is out, time to start bashing the next team..Some of you guys are insufferable..

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11/15/2020 4:48 PM

Cayden Thompson wrote:

Anyone want to try to explain how once was the most sought after and prime team fell from grace?
I remember back in the 2010s where PC Kawis were going 1,2,3 every motocross and supercross race like Star Racing Yamaha (and the defunct Geico Honda Team) are today.
Now it seems like if you want to win a championship you need to be on a Star Racing Machine.

Anyone have any ideas/opinions why this is? Is it because they don't have the cash to hire champion racers? Is the 250 Kawi engine not as competitive as it once was? Is it leadership? Is it the program?

Brad460 wrote:

AND it starts....now that JGR is out, time to start bashing the next team..Some of you guys are insufferable..

I'm not bashing anything at all, nor do I intend to.
Just asking a question and want opinions.

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11/15/2020 5:04 PM

SEMAC wrote:

That Johnny Ringo,think that the bike,and not the rider win races,i AM allmost sure ,he has never raced

Ok pal

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Alright Lunger, Let's Do It

11/15/2020 5:16 PM

If you put equally skilled riders on YZ250F vs a KX250F, I am sure the racer on the YZ wins 3 out of 5. The 250 Yamaha is superior in my opinion.

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11/15/2020 5:26 PM

Speaking of PC, why are they still riding the 2020 bike? Do they not have enough time to develop the 2021?

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Don't ever let facts get in the way of a great story

11/15/2020 5:47 PM

Canoe589 wrote:

If you put equally skilled riders on YZ250F vs a KX250F, I am sure the racer on the YZ wins 3 out of 5. The 250 Yamaha is superior in my opinion.

I think I could agree! It's obviously the rider that matters more, especially when I think of the final rounds of SX where Sexton was smoking Mcelrath. But if you put let's say Ferrandis on any other bike, I don't think he'd be as dominate.

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11/15/2020 5:49 PM

hubbardmx50 wrote:

Speaking of PC, why are they still riding the 2020 bike? Do they not have enough time to develop the 2021?

That's a good question! I would expect them to use the 21 bike for the upcoming season? Unless the pull an MCR Honda.

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11/15/2020 5:52 PM

There is no normal anymore due to the virus.

Many production lines were down for long periods

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11/15/2020 5:54 PM

hubbardmx50 wrote:

Speaking of PC, why are they still riding the 2020 bike? Do they not have enough time to develop the 2021?

I believe they’ get on the ‘21 tomorrow. Should see on social media.

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11/15/2020 6:26 PM

The '93-'03 Kawi 125's weren't the best bikes by a long shot and Mitch's team still produced results. I shudder to think how hard he had to work to get those early KX125 motors to be competitive versus the CR's and the '96 and up YZ125's. Mitch won many titles on bikes that weren't the class leader. My opinion is he's had some bad luck and his riders also threw away more than a few titles.

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11/15/2020 6:33 PM

avidchimp wrote:

Mitch invested in 4 stroke testing/knowledge long before the other teams did, including hiring Drino Miller (RIP). The other teams have caught up. Pretty simple really.

Flattrack88 wrote:

I agree with this statement, but is 2019 mx champ and should have been double sx champ really that far fallen from grace?

Cayden Thompson wrote:

I agree, what I mean by "fall of grace" is it is not the most prestigious team to be on today.

Bullshit.

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11/15/2020 6:58 PM

DynoDan22 wrote:

The '93-'03 Kawi 125's weren't the best bikes by a long shot and Mitch's team still produced results. I shudder to think how hard he had to work to get those early KX125 motors to be competitive versus the CR's and the '96 and up YZ125's. Mitch won many titles on bikes that weren't the class leader. My opinion is he's had some bad luck and his riders also threw away more than a few titles.

For the life of me I can’t remember the name of the magazine feature, but it’s the one where all the folks involved get interviewed back and forth as a progression through the feature (time period), commenting on their perspective and involvement. There was one on PC’s teams from Honda into Kawasaki. You’re correct-Mitch and Co burned a lot of midnight oil trying to get those bikes to be competitive. They were junk, and only one out of a few parts were good (like cylinders). They were getting factory new parts and having to toss them.

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11/15/2020 6:59 PM

I say Ferrandis would have very similar results on a Pro Circuit race bike.

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