Privateer life... unbelievable

TexasVet
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122
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Location
Springtown, TX US
8/12/2019 1:48pm
Motoxdoc wrote:
Some people in industries/professions take advantage of the next generation with no consideration for the future. Their main concern is making a profit for themselves today...
Some people in industries/professions take advantage of the next generation with no consideration for the future. Their main concern is making a profit for themselves today. Others promote the future of their industry with grooming/incentive programs to give the next generation a head start in that particular field with the thought that, if the newbies at the entry level do better, the entire profession as a whole will do better, i.e. a rising tide lifts everybody’s boat. Some of you consider this latter scenario of helping the next generation as socialism or communism….coddling the spoiled, snow-flake, participation-trophy generation….others would call it religion….and yet others would call it a family, or simply, a community taking care of its own.
TexasVet wrote:
Straight out of California. Who is being taken advantage of? Some one racing mx for a living who might have Daddy richer than all of us...
Straight out of California. Who is being taken advantage of? Some one racing mx for a living who might have Daddy

richer than all of us combined? Or who someone is privileged enough to ride motorcycles for a living/fun/something

to do? No one "groomed" my daughter to become a teacher. WE paid for it!

Love the shot at conservatives.

What's next? Racism? Sexism...gender neutral?

Motoxdoc wrote:
Are you judging me by where I was born? I was only saying some people call helping others socialism or communism, while others call it religion...and...
Are you judging me by where I was born?

I was only saying some people call helping others socialism or communism, while others call it religion...and yet others call it just being a good community. This isn’t a biased opinion as much as an observation. You stating my observation is a “shot at conservatives” seems like an indictment on society to me.

Other then using the word, “groomed,” quoting me for your ranting comments and questions seems out of context. However, since you mentioned it, judging by your post it seems to me you could’ve benefited from your daughter being groomed for her profession.

You have given me yet another example to observe and comment on in the same vein as my post above. You insinuate nobody helped you groom your daughter for her profession, why should you help anyone? Whereas I say, how can we make life better for the next generation.
No, I'm judging you on what you SAY! Ranting? My God man. This just illustrates how bizarre this whole notion

has become. Weird. Twilight Zone. You have linked taking other peoples money-socialism/communism(by

gunpoint)( to the tune of hundreds of millions of deaths) to religion or just "good community". And somehow

(to you) it just seems natural.

My wife and I worked our asses off to pay for my daughters education. Fact. Your solution is to take other peoples

money. "Good community". Our pay stubs will have a new tax: Save The MX Privateers-3%
1
brocster
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3571
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Location
Aliso Viejo, CA US
8/12/2019 7:09pm
You people that claim to be fans are bonkers in saying that you don’t go to see past the top 10 or 32’nd place. Don’t fool youself into thinking you are that tough. If there were only 10 riders on the gate you would be bitching your ass off that there wasn’t enough racing, who wants to watch 10 guys race, this is bullshit, rah, rah, rah.

WTF tells their high performing kid hang it up dude, you are not going to be good enough at this to make a career. Believe me, I know, I wasn’t and these guys are fast and you are not. You better go to school and become something else, maybe a teacher or something that you don’t want to be. Maybe someone should have told Seeley, Peike, McGrath Dowd even Dungey that. They all started late and didn’t start at the top from what I remember. I know there is more but can’t think of them now. You’ll absolutely never have a shot if you are not there. You don’t know til you know, one way or the other, but if you can finish top 20 you should atleast be part of the game and get compensated for it.
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mxb2
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Location
Bowie, MD US
8/12/2019 8:46pm
brocster wrote:
You people that claim to be fans are bonkers in saying that you don’t go to see past the top 10 or 32’nd place. Don’t fool...
You people that claim to be fans are bonkers in saying that you don’t go to see past the top 10 or 32’nd place. Don’t fool youself into thinking you are that tough. If there were only 10 riders on the gate you would be bitching your ass off that there wasn’t enough racing, who wants to watch 10 guys race, this is bullshit, rah, rah, rah.

WTF tells their high performing kid hang it up dude, you are not going to be good enough at this to make a career. Believe me, I know, I wasn’t and these guys are fast and you are not. You better go to school and become something else, maybe a teacher or something that you don’t want to be. Maybe someone should have told Seeley, Peike, McGrath Dowd even Dungey that. They all started late and didn’t start at the top from what I remember. I know there is more but can’t think of them now. You’ll absolutely never have a shot if you are not there. You don’t know til you know, one way or the other, but if you can finish top 20 you should atleast be part of the game and get compensated for it.
Who are you sponsoring? What rider?
TeamGreen
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Thru-out, CA US
8/12/2019 8:54pm
brocster wrote:
You people that claim to be fans are bonkers in saying that you don’t go to see past the top 10 or 32’nd place. Don’t fool...
You people that claim to be fans are bonkers in saying that you don’t go to see past the top 10 or 32’nd place. Don’t fool youself into thinking you are that tough. If there were only 10 riders on the gate you would be bitching your ass off that there wasn’t enough racing, who wants to watch 10 guys race, this is bullshit, rah, rah, rah.

WTF tells their high performing kid hang it up dude, you are not going to be good enough at this to make a career. Believe me, I know, I wasn’t and these guys are fast and you are not. You better go to school and become something else, maybe a teacher or something that you don’t want to be. Maybe someone should have told Seeley, Peike, McGrath Dowd even Dungey that. They all started late and didn’t start at the top from what I remember. I know there is more but can’t think of them now. You’ll absolutely never have a shot if you are not there. You don’t know til you know, one way or the other, but if you can finish top 20 you should atleast be part of the game and get compensated for it.
mxb2 wrote:
Who are you sponsoring? What rider?
Ouch!

Mean...outright...damn mean...

But, TRUE!

Laughing

The Shop

mxb2
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8/12/2019 9:05pm
brocster wrote:
You people that claim to be fans are bonkers in saying that you don’t go to see past the top 10 or 32’nd place. Don’t fool...
You people that claim to be fans are bonkers in saying that you don’t go to see past the top 10 or 32’nd place. Don’t fool youself into thinking you are that tough. If there were only 10 riders on the gate you would be bitching your ass off that there wasn’t enough racing, who wants to watch 10 guys race, this is bullshit, rah, rah, rah.

WTF tells their high performing kid hang it up dude, you are not going to be good enough at this to make a career. Believe me, I know, I wasn’t and these guys are fast and you are not. You better go to school and become something else, maybe a teacher or something that you don’t want to be. Maybe someone should have told Seeley, Peike, McGrath Dowd even Dungey that. They all started late and didn’t start at the top from what I remember. I know there is more but can’t think of them now. You’ll absolutely never have a shot if you are not there. You don’t know til you know, one way or the other, but if you can finish top 20 you should atleast be part of the game and get compensated for it.
mxb2 wrote:
Who are you sponsoring? What rider?
TeamGreen wrote:
Ouch!

Mean...outright...damn mean...

But, TRUE!

Laughing
Nothing personal. He seems passionate about the topic. If you arent helping sponsoring,trying to change stuff. Cant complain.
brocster
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Location
Aliso Viejo, CA US
8/12/2019 9:06pm Edited Date/Time 8/12/2019 9:09pm
brocster wrote:
You people that claim to be fans are bonkers in saying that you don’t go to see past the top 10 or 32’nd place. Don’t fool...
You people that claim to be fans are bonkers in saying that you don’t go to see past the top 10 or 32’nd place. Don’t fool youself into thinking you are that tough. If there were only 10 riders on the gate you would be bitching your ass off that there wasn’t enough racing, who wants to watch 10 guys race, this is bullshit, rah, rah, rah.

WTF tells their high performing kid hang it up dude, you are not going to be good enough at this to make a career. Believe me, I know, I wasn’t and these guys are fast and you are not. You better go to school and become something else, maybe a teacher or something that you don’t want to be. Maybe someone should have told Seeley, Peike, McGrath Dowd even Dungey that. They all started late and didn’t start at the top from what I remember. I know there is more but can’t think of them now. You’ll absolutely never have a shot if you are not there. You don’t know til you know, one way or the other, but if you can finish top 20 you should atleast be part of the game and get compensated for it.
mxb2 wrote:
Who are you sponsoring? What rider?
I sponser motocross

I am a fan

If there are 40 spots for 40 PROFESSIONAL riders. Treat them as such! If it needs to be cut to 30 I am ok with that too but make it worth their while for providing the show for the entire day.

I have been sponsoring by buying product and bikes for 40ish years and yeah I have donated to privateers as well a couple times over the years.


That is all
4
zehn
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8/12/2019 9:16pm
Area man attempts to engage in marketing, fails miserably
mxb2
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Bowie, MD US
8/12/2019 11:19pm
brocster wrote:
You people that claim to be fans are bonkers in saying that you don’t go to see past the top 10 or 32’nd place. Don’t fool...
You people that claim to be fans are bonkers in saying that you don’t go to see past the top 10 or 32’nd place. Don’t fool youself into thinking you are that tough. If there were only 10 riders on the gate you would be bitching your ass off that there wasn’t enough racing, who wants to watch 10 guys race, this is bullshit, rah, rah, rah.

WTF tells their high performing kid hang it up dude, you are not going to be good enough at this to make a career. Believe me, I know, I wasn’t and these guys are fast and you are not. You better go to school and become something else, maybe a teacher or something that you don’t want to be. Maybe someone should have told Seeley, Peike, McGrath Dowd even Dungey that. They all started late and didn’t start at the top from what I remember. I know there is more but can’t think of them now. You’ll absolutely never have a shot if you are not there. You don’t know til you know, one way or the other, but if you can finish top 20 you should atleast be part of the game and get compensated for it.
mxb2 wrote:
Who are you sponsoring? What rider?
brocster wrote:
I sponser motocross I am a fan If there are 40 spots for 40 PROFESSIONAL riders. Treat them as such! If it needs to be cut...
I sponser motocross

I am a fan

If there are 40 spots for 40 PROFESSIONAL riders. Treat them as such! If it needs to be cut to 30 I am ok with that too but make it worth their while for providing the show for the entire day.

I have been sponsoring by buying product and bikes for 40ish years and yeah I have donated to privateers as well a couple times over the years.


That is all
Me aswell..my $ goes to hotels, gas tickets. Not a guy wanting a new bike,suspension and free hand outs. Ole saying goes, dont talk bout it be about it. If you care that much do something about it.
8/12/2019 11:34pm
PTECH wrote:
I gotta say I agree with this. Its probably going to rub a lot of people the wrong way but IMO the privateers don't bring a...
I gotta say I agree with this. Its probably going to rub a lot of people the wrong way but IMO the privateers don't bring a single thing to professional racing for me as a spectator. Anyone that can qualify for a national or a sx night show has ten times the talent I have on a bike but when I'm watching a race, privateers are speed bumps, they're moving obstacles for the top guys. Not sure what these guys are worth to the show when they're just riding around getting blue flags waved at them after a few laps? Blame it on whatever you want but they're just not on the level of the top guys.
I whole heartedly agree with you.

People keep spouting “haha MXGP is a joke, look there’s only 20 riders on the line”

And I’m like you... “unless you can find another 20 riders who can go the speed of the top 5-10, then there’s no point in them being there, they add nothing.”
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8/12/2019 11:49pm
You’re all looking far too up the chain to make the change needed.
Until every household in the street owns & rides dirt bikes there will never be the money around our sport.

If you want to fix the money issues at the top of the sport, first fix selling dirt bikes to every household in America. And fix it so they can ride em!
Francis377
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Marseilles, MA US
8/13/2019 4:31am
Interesting how market realities are ignored when it comes to stuff like this.
Instead of comparing motorocross to the PGA it would be much more appropriate (realistic) to compare ourselves with professional Dart Players or Curling pros. See how many of them get to live well from being the best at their sport.
BTW the participant pool in motocross is extremely shallow compared to any mainstream sport. So to be in the top 20 in motocross you will have to rise about much fewer other competitors than you would have to in Golf, Football, Tennis etc.
That doesnt make Noah any less of a badass. He clearly is a highly talented rider and his willingness to live tough like that will help him succeed outside of dirtbiking too.
swtwtwtw
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8/13/2019 6:14am
Despite the strong feelings for or against MXGP, their system works for the would be privateers. How, well most of the full Euro gp gates are filled with riders on “private” or satellite teams, paid/salaried riders. Plus, they allow for locals to try and qualify at each round. I say this is good.
1
brocster
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8/13/2019 11:57am
mxb2 wrote:
Who are you sponsoring? What rider?
brocster wrote:
I sponser motocross I am a fan If there are 40 spots for 40 PROFESSIONAL riders. Treat them as such! If it needs to be cut...
I sponser motocross

I am a fan

If there are 40 spots for 40 PROFESSIONAL riders. Treat them as such! If it needs to be cut to 30 I am ok with that too but make it worth their while for providing the show for the entire day.

I have been sponsoring by buying product and bikes for 40ish years and yeah I have donated to privateers as well a couple times over the years.


That is all
mxb2 wrote:
Me aswell..my $ goes to hotels, gas tickets. Not a guy wanting a new bike,suspension and free hand outs. Ole saying goes, dont talk bout it...
Me aswell..my $ goes to hotels, gas tickets. Not a guy wanting a new bike,suspension and free hand outs. Ole saying goes, dont talk bout it be about it. If you care that much do something about it.
I am doing something about it, I am talking about it in support of it unlike you who can’t get your shallow head out of thinking this is about handouts.
1
8/13/2019 12:10pm Edited Date/Time 8/13/2019 12:11pm
brocster wrote:
You people that claim to be fans are bonkers in saying that you don’t go to see past the top 10 or 32’nd place. Don’t fool...
You people that claim to be fans are bonkers in saying that you don’t go to see past the top 10 or 32’nd place. Don’t fool youself into thinking you are that tough. If there were only 10 riders on the gate you would be bitching your ass off that there wasn’t enough racing, who wants to watch 10 guys race, this is bullshit, rah, rah, rah.

WTF tells their high performing kid hang it up dude, you are not going to be good enough at this to make a career. Believe me, I know, I wasn’t and these guys are fast and you are not. You better go to school and become something else, maybe a teacher or something that you don’t want to be. Maybe someone should have told Seeley, Peike, McGrath Dowd even Dungey that. They all started late and didn’t start at the top from what I remember. I know there is more but can’t think of them now. You’ll absolutely never have a shot if you are not there. You don’t know til you know, one way or the other, but if you can finish top 20 you should atleast be part of the game and get compensated for it.
You got in to the sport because you saw awesome racing and it interested you or because you saw Jiri Dostal get lapped by Carmichael 20 minutes in to a moto?

I know my answer. Do I admire those guys back there? Without a doubt. Do I think they deserve to be paid? Absolutely not. They are worth their market value. Motocross is a small market. The smaller the market the less money there is to go around. Simple economics. The problem with them getting paid has nothing to do with the sport but the outsiders coming in to the sport. It's a direct reflection of how much money is in the sport... enough for about 20 guys to make a living in each class. Maybe SX is the culprit. Maybe companies invest their money in the sport because of SX and MX is an afterthought. I know I certainly wouldn't invest any more than I had to if I only cared about 17/29ths of the races.
mxb2
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Bowie, MD US
8/13/2019 1:25pm
brocster wrote:
I sponser motocross I am a fan If there are 40 spots for 40 PROFESSIONAL riders. Treat them as such! If it needs to be cut...
I sponser motocross

I am a fan

If there are 40 spots for 40 PROFESSIONAL riders. Treat them as such! If it needs to be cut to 30 I am ok with that too but make it worth their while for providing the show for the entire day.

I have been sponsoring by buying product and bikes for 40ish years and yeah I have donated to privateers as well a couple times over the years.


That is all
mxb2 wrote:
Me aswell..my $ goes to hotels, gas tickets. Not a guy wanting a new bike,suspension and free hand outs. Ole saying goes, dont talk bout it...
Me aswell..my $ goes to hotels, gas tickets. Not a guy wanting a new bike,suspension and free hand outs. Ole saying goes, dont talk bout it be about it. If you care that much do something about it.
brocster wrote:
I am doing something about it, I am talking about it in support of it unlike you who can’t get your shallow head out of thinking...
I am doing something about it, I am talking about it in support of it unlike you who can’t get your shallow head out of thinking this is about handouts.
Lol shallow. Its called real world. Get out of your shell. And since you said your doing things, what exactly are you doing?
8/13/2019 2:15pm
Tell a golf fan to name 20 current golfers. I bet they can. Tell an MX Fan to name 20 current riders. I bet he can't
1
JM485
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Davis, CA US
8/13/2019 2:38pm
Wow this place has definitely changed over the years. . .

Old Vital: “Privateers are the backbone of our sport! How can we help them? MXGP is a joke with 20 rider gates!”

Vital Now: “Privateers? Eh, fuck em. Why should they get paid? Nobody cares about them. 20 rider gates would be fine. They suck anyways why even bother showing up”

Unreal. . .
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2
Titan1
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Lehi, UT US
8/13/2019 2:49pm Edited Date/Time 8/13/2019 7:03pm
How is the “size” of a sport even determined? Money in the sport? Participants? Athlete incomes? TV/media coverage? Fan attendance at events?

I saw someone comparing our sport to darts, or curling, and apparently bowling is bigger than moto...did the GOAT of curling make as much money in his career as RC? Is the-almost-3 time National Dart thrower making as much money as Tomac? Are the top 10 bowlers in the world earning what the top 10 best moto guys are?

I don’t know the answer to those questions...but I’d have a hard time believing the answers are “yes”. (Maybe I’m wrong?)

But if our sport is the same “size” (however that’s determined) as those sports...and our elite riders are making significantly more money than their elite "athletes" (?)...Are we even asking the correct question? Rather than asking are privateers paid to little...maybe we should be asking...are the elites paid to much?
8/13/2019 2:55pm
JM485 wrote:
Wow this place has definitely changed over the years. . . Old Vital: “Privateers are the backbone of our sport! How can we help them? MXGP...
Wow this place has definitely changed over the years. . .

Old Vital: “Privateers are the backbone of our sport! How can we help them? MXGP is a joke with 20 rider gates!”

Vital Now: “Privateers? Eh, fuck em. Why should they get paid? Nobody cares about them. 20 rider gates would be fine. They suck anyways why even bother showing up”

Unreal. . .
I don't think anyone is saying fuck em. I think the realists like me are just saying they're entering in to a sport that is notorious for not being able to make a living wage outside the top 20 and yet they complain as if it's some unknown injustice.

*Scores ZERO championship points, wants to get paid for being tied in 88th place with 115 other guys* is what I read.

They want money? Score points. This sport supports about 20 guys in each class. The points stop at 20/22. If you can't do that consistently you'll never make money in this sport. As it should be. There's 100's of guys who score zero points every year. They all deserve something because they failed and pissed away thousands of dollars not accepting reality??

Guys who consistently finish out of the points should be doing it for fun, not a living. You should only be doing it for a living if you can consistently score points.
1
lostboy819
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Somewhere, CO US
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8/13/2019 3:08pm Edited Date/Time 8/13/2019 8:45pm
JM485 wrote:
Wow this place has definitely changed over the years. . . Old Vital: “Privateers are the backbone of our sport! How can we help them? MXGP...
Wow this place has definitely changed over the years. . .

Old Vital: “Privateers are the backbone of our sport! How can we help them? MXGP is a joke with 20 rider gates!”

Vital Now: “Privateers? Eh, fuck em. Why should they get paid? Nobody cares about them. 20 rider gates would be fine. They suck anyways why even bother showing up”

Unreal. . .
I don't think anyone is saying fuck em. I think the realists like me are just saying they're entering in to a sport that is notorious...
I don't think anyone is saying fuck em. I think the realists like me are just saying they're entering in to a sport that is notorious for not being able to make a living wage outside the top 20 and yet they complain as if it's some unknown injustice.

*Scores ZERO championship points, wants to get paid for being tied in 88th place with 115 other guys* is what I read.

They want money? Score points. This sport supports about 20 guys in each class. The points stop at 20/22. If you can't do that consistently you'll never make money in this sport. As it should be. There's 100's of guys who score zero points every year. They all deserve something because they failed and pissed away thousands of dollars not accepting reality??

Guys who consistently finish out of the points should be doing it for fun, not a living. You should only be doing it for a living if you can consistently score points.
I dont even see a lot of the privateers bitching about it, it just seems to be the snowflakes on Vital who think they are speaking for the downtrodden poor privateers. Wink the bottom line is if you have the talent and are the best of the best you will get the money too but if you are the best of the rest you better be doing it for fun and not bet the farm on it.
2
brocster
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8/13/2019 5:34pm Edited Date/Time 8/13/2019 5:37pm
mxb2 wrote:
Me aswell..my $ goes to hotels, gas tickets. Not a guy wanting a new bike,suspension and free hand outs. Ole saying goes, dont talk bout it...
Me aswell..my $ goes to hotels, gas tickets. Not a guy wanting a new bike,suspension and free hand outs. Ole saying goes, dont talk bout it be about it. If you care that much do something about it.
brocster wrote:
I am doing something about it, I am talking about it in support of it unlike you who can’t get your shallow head out of thinking...
I am doing something about it, I am talking about it in support of it unlike you who can’t get your shallow head out of thinking this is about handouts.
mxb2 wrote:
Lol shallow. Its called real world. Get out of your shell. And since you said your doing things, what exactly are you doing?
Comprehension brother

*you’re

Oh! I am out of my shell every friggin weekend in the real world. You should get off the computer and go see it sometimes. 18,000 posts speaks volumes...

Have a nice day!
Tryhard
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8/13/2019 6:06pm
It's a dog eat dog world, where cash is king , or well actually credit therefore in the United states . All I can respond to this post.
Motoxdoc
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Steamboat Springs, CO US
8/13/2019 6:12pm Edited Date/Time 8/13/2019 6:29pm
Motoxdoc wrote:
To sum it up; a large percentage of MX racers that ARE the show can’t make a living DOING the show.....and for some reason many here...
To sum it up; a large percentage of MX racers that ARE the show can’t make a living DOING the show.....and for some reason many here, on a MX website, don’t give a shit about that changing...did I oversimplify that?
zehn wrote:
Sorry but 20th-40th is not the show for the majority of fans/viewers. Sure, I have my privateer guys that I like to see get a top...
Sorry but 20th-40th is not the show for the majority of fans/viewers.

Sure, I have my privateer guys that I like to see get a top 15 but you're delusional if you think 20,000+ fans show up at Unadilla to see some lappers fight over 32nd place
No need to apologize for your opinion. I’m cool with it. I don’t agree with it though. I believe they’re ALL part of the show! There are a few things that make AMA outdoor motocross the special thing that it is....and having an extra 19 racers on the line is one of them. Think of how less exciting it would be if there were 20 racers coming into the first turn instead of 40! What good is it to win if there’s nobody to beat? I might be a little biased because I was once one of those mid pack racers.
You are correct. I would be delusional if I thought 20,000+ fans show up to Unadilla to see some lappers fight over 32nd place.
1
Graybeard
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8/13/2019 6:13pm
Titan1 wrote:
How is the “size” of a sport even determined? Money in the sport? Participants? Athlete incomes? TV/media coverage? Fan attendance at events? I saw someone comparing...
How is the “size” of a sport even determined? Money in the sport? Participants? Athlete incomes? TV/media coverage? Fan attendance at events?

I saw someone comparing our sport to darts, or curling, and apparently bowling is bigger than moto...did the GOAT of curling make as much money in his career as RC? Is the-almost-3 time National Dart thrower making as much money as Tomac? Are the top 10 bowlers in the world earning what the top 10 best moto guys are?

I don’t know the answer to those questions...but I’d have a hard time believing the answers are “yes”. (Maybe I’m wrong?)

But if our sport is the same “size” (however that’s determined) as those sports...and our elite riders are making significantly more money than their elite "athletes" (?)...Are we even asking the correct question? Rather than asking are privateers paid to little...maybe we should be asking...are the elites paid to much?
Did you see where one of the top bowlers at the Pan American games was DQ'd for PEDs????? They must be rollin' for SERIOUS money, LOL!
1
Titan1
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8/13/2019 7:05pm
Titan1 wrote:
How is the “size” of a sport even determined? Money in the sport? Participants? Athlete incomes? TV/media coverage? Fan attendance at events? I saw someone comparing...
How is the “size” of a sport even determined? Money in the sport? Participants? Athlete incomes? TV/media coverage? Fan attendance at events?

I saw someone comparing our sport to darts, or curling, and apparently bowling is bigger than moto...did the GOAT of curling make as much money in his career as RC? Is the-almost-3 time National Dart thrower making as much money as Tomac? Are the top 10 bowlers in the world earning what the top 10 best moto guys are?

I don’t know the answer to those questions...but I’d have a hard time believing the answers are “yes”. (Maybe I’m wrong?)

But if our sport is the same “size” (however that’s determined) as those sports...and our elite riders are making significantly more money than their elite "athletes" (?)...Are we even asking the correct question? Rather than asking are privateers paid to little...maybe we should be asking...are the elites paid to much?
Graybeard wrote:
Did you see where one of the top bowlers at the Pan American games was DQ'd for PEDs????? They must be rollin' for SERIOUS money, LOL!
I'm surprised...but maybe I shouldn't be. I had no idea bowling was bigger than moto.

I

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