Private track liability

Jake_Ridenour
What’s the right way? Waivers/ No Waivers?
Any moto lawyers on here?
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mb
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mb 3/19/2018 7:42pm
3/19/2018 7:42pm
You're at risk the second you let anyone on the property.
KDXGarage
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KDXGarage 3/19/2018 7:59pm
3/19/2018 7:59pm
mb wrote:
You're at risk the second you let anyone on the property.
EXACTLY

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Just south of Paradise... 3/19/2018 9:51pm
3/19/2018 9:51pm
In some states waivers can help quite a bit as long as the track is not unnecessarily dangerous (like having a bulldozer parked right by the landing ramp on the big triple). If it were me I would research your state, talk to a local attorney to see what they say. Have riders sign a waiver, get a video taped release of liability, get a crap ton of liability insurance, like millions of dollars. You could also have the property put into a trust, to protect yourself to some extent. Good luck, hope you can make it work out.
Jake_Ridenour 3/20/2018 3:44am
3/20/2018 3:44am
Ya, I’ve read through all the material in old threads. I am really searching for a moto friendly legal mind to call and talk through this.

Also, I know it’s a risk. My track is 20 years old this year. The problem my old age is coming with wisdom and responsibility making me more and more nervous.
hillbilly
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hillbilly 3/20/2018 6:06am
3/20/2018 6:06am
I always thought you start a club.

Everybody that rides pays an entry fee or due.

You can't sue your own club.

Never knew how true that is.
kb228
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kb228 3/20/2018 6:14am
3/20/2018 6:14am
If its just your buddies i wouldnt even worry about it. If it was public then yea you need waivers. At least thats what tracks do in ohio.
Forty
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Forty 3/20/2018 6:31am
3/20/2018 6:31am
kb228 wrote:
If its just your buddies i wouldnt even worry about it. If it was public then yea you need waivers. At least thats what tracks do...
If its just your buddies i wouldnt even worry about it. If it was public then yea you need waivers. At least thats what tracks do in ohio.
They’re your buddies till someone breaks a neck. Then everybody funny. I’d have waivers signed by anyone that comes on the property. And then another one signed by anyone that rides. Proof of health insurance isn’t a bad idea. Sounds excessive I know but people are strange.
Dtat720
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Dtat720 3/20/2018 7:26am
3/20/2018 7:26am
kb228 wrote:
If its just your buddies i wouldnt even worry about it. If it was public then yea you need waivers. At least thats what tracks do...
If its just your buddies i wouldnt even worry about it. If it was public then yea you need waivers. At least thats what tracks do in ohio.
Buddies wont sue, but your buddies insurance company will force your buddy to sue on their behalf to recover benefits paid. So in essence, buddies will sue no matter what.
mxtech1
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mxtech1 3/20/2018 7:27am
3/20/2018 7:27am Edited Date/Time 3/20/2018 7:29am
hillbilly wrote:
I always thought you start a club. Everybody that rides pays an entry fee or due. You can't sue your own club. Never knew how true...
I always thought you start a club.

Everybody that rides pays an entry fee or due.

You can't sue your own club.

Never knew how true that is.
I've been part of a club like you described.

They have been sued twice by two members who sustained injury on the grounds.

The first guy was not successful because it was essentially accidental and there was no negligence on the club.

The second guy was successful and was awarded quite a large sum of money to cover the medical expenses from the accident. In this scenario, the club member was riding while the tractor was out discing and the rider hit the tractor. Basically, they said the club was negligent because they allowed a rider on the track while heavy equipment was present. The club had an unwritten rule not to ride while the track is being prepped.

mxtech1
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mxtech1 3/20/2018 7:29am
3/20/2018 7:29am
kb228 wrote:
If its just your buddies i wouldnt even worry about it. If it was public then yea you need waivers. At least thats what tracks do...
If its just your buddies i wouldnt even worry about it. If it was public then yea you need waivers. At least thats what tracks do in ohio.
Dtat720 wrote:
Buddies wont sue, but your buddies insurance company will force your buddy to sue on their behalf to recover benefits paid. So in essence, buddies will...
Buddies wont sue, but your buddies insurance company will force your buddy to sue on their behalf to recover benefits paid. So in essence, buddies will sue no matter what.
X2.

This is exactly what happened when our club was sued.

If your insurance company is telling you that you have $50K in medical expenses that you must pay OR you can sue and not pay that $50K, which are you going to pick?

Friends aren't so friendly when staggering amounts of money are on the line.
Gilby122
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Gilby122 3/20/2018 8:28am
3/20/2018 8:28am
I have my own track....also in the insurance industry. Been fortunate so far to not have anything serious happen, but I'm also pretty selective as to who I allow to ride at my place. Friends can all say they wouldn't come after you, but if my buddy ends up eating through a straw and he's the provider for his family, I'd fully expect his wife to come after me in order for her to survive. A waiver might slow people down, but it won't stop them from suing and there will be costs associated with defending yourself. I have an umbrella policy to help me out in the event something does happen. Bout $50 a month, but pretty cheap in my opinion for what it's providing. Don't have to be a millionaire to be sued like one!
FreshTopEnd
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FreshTopEnd 3/20/2018 8:37am
3/20/2018 8:37am
The laws tend to be state specific. You will want to speak with a local lawyer, not a web chatter, if you are serious about the issue. Your insurance broker should be able to help, too.
zehn
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zehn 3/20/2018 8:37am
3/20/2018 8:37am
Dtat720 wrote:
Buddies wont sue, but your buddies insurance company will force your buddy to sue on their behalf to recover benefits paid. So in essence, buddies will...
Buddies wont sue, but your buddies insurance company will force your buddy to sue on their behalf to recover benefits paid. So in essence, buddies will sue no matter what.
AKA the right of subrogation
526
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526 3/20/2018 8:43am
3/20/2018 8:43am
Right or Wrong the track I ride at has No Trespassing signs everywhere so technically I am "Trespassing" and if something happens I wasn't even suppose to be there in the first place.
zehn
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zehn 3/20/2018 8:58am
3/20/2018 8:58am
526 wrote:
Right or Wrong the track I ride at has No Trespassing signs everywhere so technically I am "Trespassing" and if something happens I wasn't even suppose...
Right or Wrong the track I ride at has No Trespassing signs everywhere so technically I am "Trespassing" and if something happens I wasn't even suppose to be there in the first place.
Yes, but at that point you become a frequent trespasser and the landowner's duty of care changes because he could anticipate you being there.
Jake_Ridenour 3/20/2018 9:01am
3/20/2018 9:01am
FreshTopEnd wrote:
The laws tend to be state specific. You will want to speak with a local lawyer, not a web chatter, if you are serious about the...
The laws tend to be state specific. You will want to speak with a local lawyer, not a web chatter, if you are serious about the issue. Your insurance broker should be able to help, too.
That’s the plan, just entertaining others thoughts.

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dkg
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dkg 3/20/2018 5:56pm
3/20/2018 5:56pm
FreshTopEnd wrote:
The laws tend to be state specific. You will want to speak with a local lawyer, not a web chatter, if you are serious about the...
The laws tend to be state specific. You will want to speak with a local lawyer, not a web chatter, if you are serious about the issue. Your insurance broker should be able to help, too.
Jake_Ridenour wrote:
That’s the plan, just entertaining others thoughts.
Best advice in this thread. Glad to see that's your plan. No reflection on any of the posters in this thread, but, in other threads and on the internet in general there are some pretty crazy ideas out there. Now if there were an IN poster with a legal background participating on this board, that would be the guy to have a discussion with.
Tbteam
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Tbteam 3/20/2018 6:18pm
3/20/2018 6:18pm
There’s this “expert guy”... goes by “RC16”.
KennyT
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KennyT 3/20/2018 6:40pm
3/20/2018 6:40pm
Your best insurance if a “buddy” gets hurt on your land is a shovel, a deep hole, and these words coming out of your mouth “no, I haven’t seen him”
mx 219
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mx 219 3/20/2018 6:53pm
3/20/2018 6:53pm
I have thought about this because I am hoping to get land and put a track on it in the next few years.

If it is just for buddies couldn't you just have a statement that acknowledges that motorcycles are dangerous, jumping obstacles has risks and potential injury? You could have the riders sign stating that they acknowlesge jumping is not necessary (seeing as probably 95% of accidents happen when jumping) and that they take full responsibilty for their actions on the track and that any damage, or injurie's as a result of jumping is a result of their actions on the track, thus they are responsibke for any damages that result from jumping.

Additionally, I would think some kind of statement saying that they take full respobsibilty for their actions and have them agree (sign) to a statement that they would personally be held responsible to fight against any lawsuit from them, a spouse, child, parent, relative, friend or acquaintance against the owner or the track.

I'm sure there could be loop holes around these as well, but having the blame placed on the for any accient on the rider and having the rider be responsible for their actions(imagine that) and acknowledge so might help.
mikec265
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mikec265 3/20/2018 7:03pm
3/20/2018 7:03pm
Gilby122 wrote:
I have my own track....also in the insurance industry. Been fortunate so far to not have anything serious happen, but I'm also pretty selective as to...
I have my own track....also in the insurance industry. Been fortunate so far to not have anything serious happen, but I'm also pretty selective as to who I allow to ride at my place. Friends can all say they wouldn't come after you, but if my buddy ends up eating through a straw and he's the provider for his family, I'd fully expect his wife to come after me in order for her to survive. A waiver might slow people down, but it won't stop them from suing and there will be costs associated with defending yourself. I have an umbrella policy to help me out in the event something does happen. Bout $50 a month, but pretty cheap in my opinion for what it's providing. Don't have to be a millionaire to be sued like one!
Who would we need to contact for insurance like you have?
mx 219
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mx 219 3/20/2018 7:11pm
3/20/2018 7:11pm
Gilby122 wrote:
I have my own track....also in the insurance industry. Been fortunate so far to not have anything serious happen, but I'm also pretty selective as to...
I have my own track....also in the insurance industry. Been fortunate so far to not have anything serious happen, but I'm also pretty selective as to who I allow to ride at my place. Friends can all say they wouldn't come after you, but if my buddy ends up eating through a straw and he's the provider for his family, I'd fully expect his wife to come after me in order for her to survive. A waiver might slow people down, but it won't stop them from suing and there will be costs associated with defending yourself. I have an umbrella policy to help me out in the event something does happen. Bout $50 a month, but pretty cheap in my opinion for what it's providing. Don't have to be a millionaire to be sued like one!
mikec265 wrote:
Who would we need to contact for insurance like you have?
Should be able to get an umbrella policy through your insurance company. I got one just because everyone is sue happy today, it was just a little bit more each month that what I was paying.
TeamGreen
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TeamGreen 3/20/2018 7:33pm
3/20/2018 7:33pm
FreshTopEnd wrote:
The laws tend to be state specific. You will want to speak with a local lawyer, not a web chatter, if you are serious about the...
The laws tend to be state specific. You will want to speak with a local lawyer, not a web chatter, if you are serious about the issue. Your insurance broker should be able to help, too.
And your broker should call K&K.
mx510
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mx510 3/20/2018 8:45pm
3/20/2018 8:45pm
Dtat720 wrote:
Buddies wont sue, but your buddies insurance company will force your buddy to sue on their behalf to recover benefits paid. So in essence, buddies will...
Buddies wont sue, but your buddies insurance company will force your buddy to sue on their behalf to recover benefits paid. So in essence, buddies will sue no matter what.
My advice here is, if your buddies truly dont want to sue then tell the hospital and insurance company that you crashed at a state owned orv park. Every time I go to the emergency room it’s because I crashed out there. Problem solved.
TeamGreen
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TeamGreen 3/20/2018 9:51pm
3/20/2018 9:51pm
Dtat720 wrote:
Buddies wont sue, but your buddies insurance company will force your buddy to sue on their behalf to recover benefits paid. So in essence, buddies will...
Buddies wont sue, but your buddies insurance company will force your buddy to sue on their behalf to recover benefits paid. So in essence, buddies will sue no matter what.
mx510 wrote:
My advice here is, if your buddies truly dont want to sue then tell the hospital and insurance company that you crashed at a state owned...
My advice here is, if your buddies truly dont want to sue then tell the hospital and insurance company that you crashed at a state owned orv park. Every time I go to the emergency room it’s because I crashed out there. Problem solved.
I thought you fell down on your Mt. Bike?
Halfast816 3/21/2018 2:53am
3/21/2018 2:53am
Probably an old wives tale. Old guys place I used to ride at always said”you get hurt here first call I make is the sheriff to report you trespassing next will be the ambulance.” That was thirty years ago still riding on that agreement....

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