Another Ken Roczen Update: Latest Elbow Surgery

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Injury Report
Ken Roczen
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ledger
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ledger 1/21/2017 11:02pm
1/21/2017 11:02pm
Damn, just damn. Love the sport, hate the injuries.
tk2stroke
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tk2stroke 1/21/2017 11:04pm
1/21/2017 11:04pm
ML512 wrote:
The linkage ratio is within a 1% difference of the previous models (I've seen the linkage ratio measured for myself), by comparison, the KTMs are way...
The linkage ratio is within a 1% difference of the previous models (I've seen the linkage ratio measured for myself), by comparison, the KTMs are way off any of the Japanese models curve....

As for the shock... Yes, the total length of the unit shorter. This is due to a much shorter clevis and using up some of the dead space inside the shock. All said and done, the total stroke length is only about 2-3mms difference. Yamaha has had shorter stroke lengths than this recently. Hell, some tuners place 10mm plates in their shocks to lower them and remove more stroke length than Honda did with this all new shock.
Interesting and good info Michael. You can imagine an engineer being skeptical after seeing the difference between how each bike was handling this particular kicker, but no doubt the setup could be a major contributing factor.
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Gus 1/21/2017 11:06pm
1/21/2017 11:06pm
I second that.
Monte122
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Monte122 1/21/2017 11:27pm
1/21/2017 11:27pm
ML512 wrote:
I'll dip in some info here that should hopefully help you understand what happened. At MEC, Ken overshot the first rhythm in this section, compressing the...
I'll dip in some info here that should hopefully help you understand what happened. At MEC, Ken overshot the first rhythm in this section, compressing the suspension heavily and causing it to pop weird for the next set, which he then cased after losing his pop, then endo-ing off the third...

Tonight, he landed a little deep off the first rhythm, into a rut, blowing the shock through the stroke right as the bike hit a very abrupt triple face (a few guys had similar bucks with the abruptness of this lip).

Another factor, in my opinion, on why the reaction was so severe is Ken typically likes softer settings (from what I've been told by both his prior teams) which could compound this reaction.

Lastly, the bike itself wouldn't have a "flaw" in my opinion. The linkage ratio on this bike has been modified to match up to a near equal value of the previous models (well within the range of what other manufactures use). Their shock travel/stroke length wasn't compromised with the change either.
lots of good info, thanks ML512. do you know if Dungey generally runs a stiffer set up? I don't think I've seen Dungey get bucked off like this before, I know part of the problem was the jump face.

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Sargent Rock
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Sargent Rock 1/21/2017 11:41pm
1/21/2017 11:41pm
tk2stroke wrote:
I watched Reed, Musquin, and other riders hit what seemed to be the exact same spots on the track. Reed's bike had no problem navigating the...
I watched Reed, Musquin, and other riders hit what seemed to be the exact same spots on the track. Reed's bike had no problem navigating the compression and the kicker, and Musquin's bike seemed to get thrown a bit, but nothing like Roczen's.

If you look at the video in slow-mo, Roczen's rear shock is fully compressed upon landing and then continues to be fully compressed as he leaves the jump and encounters the kicker. The resulting kick was massive as the shock was fully packed and it had no remaining dampening available to help whatsoever.

Now that we've seen this twice with Roczen on the Honda (MEC and A2), I wondering if there is a inherent flaw with the new design of the rear shock. Honda lowered the shock to accomodate the intake track, did they reduce the length of the shock shaft, or make some other possible compromise?

At the level and speed Roczen is riding, it's conceivable that the 1st generation design is a factor in what we are witnessing and kRoc is being Honda's test pilot.
Interesting thread and good responses. The Honda 450 and the KTM 450 are very different animals(linkage ratio difference, etc etc). Roczen has minimum 1000 plus hours riding on the KTM( 20 bike hours a week riding or so, just a guess for two years time).

How many hours on this new Honda? Rhetorical question guys.
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activeMX 1/21/2017 11:43pm
1/21/2017 11:43pm
twotwosix wrote:
Over-confidence, feeling invincible and a split second lack of focus. I hope it's a simple break and he can get it in a cast and get...
Over-confidence, feeling invincible and a split second lack of focus.

I hope it's a simple break and he can get it in a cast and get back out there, ala TP199. Praying for a fast recovery for Kenny.
You can't "get back out there" from a compound fracture. He's likely in surgery now and will have a screw or plate holding it together. Recovery will be from the muscle damage from injury and surgery.

You really think he was over confident and not foucusing? Idiot. The track was going away and it caused the bike to respond unexpectedly.
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Rizzo 1/21/2017 11:44pm
1/21/2017 11:44pm
ML512 wrote:
I'll dip in some info here that should hopefully help you understand what happened. At MEC, Ken overshot the first rhythm in this section, compressing the...
I'll dip in some info here that should hopefully help you understand what happened. At MEC, Ken overshot the first rhythm in this section, compressing the suspension heavily and causing it to pop weird for the next set, which he then cased after losing his pop, then endo-ing off the third...

Tonight, he landed a little deep off the first rhythm, into a rut, blowing the shock through the stroke right as the bike hit a very abrupt triple face (a few guys had similar bucks with the abruptness of this lip).

Another factor, in my opinion, on why the reaction was so severe is Ken typically likes softer settings (from what I've been told by both his prior teams) which could compound this reaction.

Lastly, the bike itself wouldn't have a "flaw" in my opinion. The linkage ratio on this bike has been modified to match up to a near equal value of the previous models (well within the range of what other manufactures use). Their shock travel/stroke length wasn't compromised with the change either.
Not getting into suspension settings, but as far as his speed entering/exiting that section, that was the main factor. 94 and 14 came up on 722, 14 went out to the right, 94 dipped under to the left. 94 Looked like he went on/off with too much throttle and he landed too deep into the face of the next rhythm and boom.......he got bucked into the outdoor series. Totally sucks. Crazy the very thin line between good and bad. Small example, Jimmy Albertson in the semi and LCQ, Very thin line between that front tire hooking up vs hitting the deck. Again, totally sucks.
TheGetFresh
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TheGetFresh 1/21/2017 11:48pm
1/21/2017 11:48pm
Trans world just posted that Honda confirmed its a compounded fracture
bronwynrayne
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bronwynrayne 1/21/2017 11:53pm
1/21/2017 11:53pm
joe412 wrote:
If it's a forearm maybe aldon can sell him a 4arm strong
Pete The Fisherman wrote:
That joke is even less funny the second time I read it.
I would have to disagree hahaha!
Radman66
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Radman66 1/21/2017 11:56pm
1/21/2017 11:56pm
TV footage doesn't do it justice in my opinion. Watching that crash live was insane. He hit so hard.. Everyone was stunned. Especially with him laying there with the Red Cross flags out.. Scary shit.
gnarwhip
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gnarwhip 1/21/2017 11:56pm
1/21/2017 11:56pm
Compound doesn't really mean anything different, it just confirms that he'll probably have surgery. That means he'll actually heal faster and have a guaranteed full recovery. Surgery takes out the "guess work" that the bones will heal properly on their own. A few screws, a plate and some stitches and he's good as new on a few months. Could've been way worse.
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ocscottie 1/21/2017 11:58pm
1/21/2017 11:58pm
So bummed beyond belief. Can i get a hug Sad
gnarwhip
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gnarwhip 1/21/2017 11:59pm
1/21/2017 11:59pm
Just for reference, Weimer's break and surgery were probably much worse. Just contemplating, but a humerus break is worse than a radius/ ulna.
bronwynrayne
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bronwynrayne 1/21/2017 11:59pm
1/21/2017 11:59pm
This is what happens when you're pushing. There is inherent danger to the sport.

Can't believe it when some people will blame a guy for wanting to be the top dog, and pushing for it... but when someone "wastes" their talent and decides to accept that they would rather enjoy the ride than push themselves and possibly injure themselves, there are people who are all over their dicks about it.

Best wishes for Ken, love seeing him ride. Hopefully the other 450 riders can sack up and roll with the boys.
scottydogmx 1/22/2017 12:00am
1/22/2017 12:00am
I don't really like supercross, it takes too many riders due to injury !
They want to make it more rounds!?
It already gets boring by about the half way point!
Get well soon Ken!
gnarwhip
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gnarwhip 1/22/2017 12:03am
1/22/2017 12:03am
I had a bad crash and concussion similar to his, still have 8 screws and a plate in my humerus and two pins in my ulna, and my arm is 90% now with no pain. just guessing but I think he'll be back to 100%
Finnish_Flash_62 1/22/2017 12:08am
1/22/2017 12:08am
What a bummer. I would almost say he was lucky to escape with just a broken arm, that hit was huge. Hoping for a speedy recovery.

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Bnagazina 1/22/2017 12:11am
1/22/2017 12:11am
As far as I understand, compound just means the broken bones came through the skin. Increases risk of infection. Doesn't give us any additional info on severity of the break/s though visual evidence did not look good. I wish the best for KR with his likely surgery and recovery.
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ocscottie 1/22/2017 12:15am
1/22/2017 12:15am
TheOriginalPancakee wrote:
How long does a compound fracture take to heal? Hope he's back for outdoors!!
Compound just means the bones broke the skin. Nasty shit, he will prob be plated in the morning and start the recovery process.
gnarwhip
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gnarwhip 1/22/2017 12:17am
1/22/2017 12:17am
Bnagazina wrote:
As far as I understand, compound just means the broken bones came through the skin. Increases risk of infection. Doesn't give us any additional info on...
As far as I understand, compound just means the broken bones came through the skin. Increases risk of infection. Doesn't give us any additional info on severity of the break/s though visual evidence did not look good. I wish the best for KR with his likely surgery and recovery.
Yes compound is when the bone punches through the skin.
FIREfish148
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FIREfish148 1/22/2017 12:21am
1/22/2017 12:21am
He was hitting that kicker faster than anyone if seemed. It looked like he bottomed out midway up the face? Man, I'm really bummed for the kid. Injuries like that don't just go away.
gnarwhip
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gnarwhip 1/22/2017 12:30am
1/22/2017 12:30am
Orthopedic surgeons are amazing these days. When I broke my elbow, I broke off the tip of my humerus right in the elbow joint and had many bone fragments floating around, plus blew out the top of the ulna. My ortho surgeon kicked ass, and after 4 hours of surgery and 10 years later my elbow is about 90% with no pain. Kens wasn't even on the joint it was lower arm (radius/ulna). I think he'll be fine.
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bvm111 1/22/2017 12:32am
1/22/2017 12:32am
compound means more than one guys, as in either both forearm bones or both forearm bones in more than one location. He landed on his forearm and shoulder from 15 feet up and probably 25-30 mph, the bones will be the easy part. There is no telling how much soft tissue damage was done, i think he will be lucky to line up for the nationals.
Freddy Fittler 1/22/2017 12:35am
1/22/2017 12:35am
Thirteen-II wrote:
After that crash, that was the quietest stadium I've ever heard. Even the commentators were taken aback by it.
Agreed. The atmosphere was drained.
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gjbruny 1/22/2017 12:36am
1/22/2017 12:36am Edited Date/Time 1/22/2017 12:41am
bvm111 wrote:
compound means more than one guys, as in either both forearm bones or both forearm bones in more than one location. He landed on his forearm...
compound means more than one guys, as in either both forearm bones or both forearm bones in more than one location. He landed on his forearm and shoulder from 15 feet up and probably 25-30 mph, the bones will be the easy part. There is no telling how much soft tissue damage was done, i think he will be lucky to line up for the nationals.
com·pound frac·ture
noun
an injury in which a broken bone pierces the skin, causing a risk of infection.

in this case, both bones are very likely fractured but just saying... a compound fracture is where a bone breaks the skin... it is also known as an "open fracture." it can be multiple bones or one bone.
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joeellis 1/22/2017 12:38am
1/22/2017 12:38am
gnarwhip wrote:
Compound doesn't really mean anything different, it just confirms that he'll probably have surgery. That means he'll actually heal faster and have a guaranteed full recovery...
Compound doesn't really mean anything different, it just confirms that he'll probably have surgery. That means he'll actually heal faster and have a guaranteed full recovery. Surgery takes out the "guess work" that the bones will heal properly on their own. A few screws, a plate and some stitches and he's good as new on a few months. Could've been way worse.
Compound really indicates a bone broke through the skin. Fortunately you're correct that with surgical help, the bones will heal correctly and possibly faster. Unfortunately, the longest part of recovery will be from the soft tissue. I severely broke my left clavical. It was a clean break, but the two ends would have never fused. Too much distance. The bone healed quickly as expected. This happened 1 1/2 years ago and I can still feel it, although slightly. His recovery will be much quicker than mine for every possible reason. Age, condition, physical therapy, etc. I hate it for the kid. Like him or not, he brings positive attention to the sport.
gnarwhip
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gnarwhip 1/22/2017 12:39am
1/22/2017 12:39am
bvm111 wrote:
compound means more than one guys, as in either both forearm bones or both forearm bones in more than one location. He landed on his forearm...
compound means more than one guys, as in either both forearm bones or both forearm bones in more than one location. He landed on his forearm and shoulder from 15 feet up and probably 25-30 mph, the bones will be the easy part. There is no telling how much soft tissue damage was done, i think he will be lucky to line up for the nationals.
No you're wrong. Google it.
Compound fracture: A fracture in which a bone is sticking through the skin. Also known as an open fracture.
Hence the blood on Ken's jersey.
gnarwhip
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gnarwhip 1/22/2017 12:41am
1/22/2017 12:41am
joeellis wrote:
Compound really indicates a bone broke through the skin. Fortunately you're correct that with surgical help, the bones will heal correctly and possibly faster. Unfortunately, the...
Compound really indicates a bone broke through the skin. Fortunately you're correct that with surgical help, the bones will heal correctly and possibly faster. Unfortunately, the longest part of recovery will be from the soft tissue. I severely broke my left clavical. It was a clean break, but the two ends would have never fused. Too much distance. The bone healed quickly as expected. This happened 1 1/2 years ago and I can still feel it, although slightly. His recovery will be much quicker than mine for every possible reason. Age, condition, physical therapy, etc. I hate it for the kid. Like him or not, he brings positive attention to the sport.
I know dogg, forgive my rambling, I'm prettty drunk
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mattyhamz2 1/22/2017 12:43am
1/22/2017 12:43am
Thirteen-II wrote:
After that crash, that was the quietest stadium I've ever heard. Even the commentators were taken aback by it.
This. Seemed like you could have hear crickets for if not for the bikes. Wasn't until he got up that there was other noise.

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