Plessinger docked 1 position

MotoX85
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MotoX85
Edited Date/Time 2/13/2018 6:12pm
....which I agree with, but do not know how you dock Aaron a position and NOT dock Cianciarulo a position for last weekend when it was very clear he was intentionally cutting under the first turn tough blocks and has a history of doing it.
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Donovan759
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Donovan759 2/12/2018 6:29am
2/12/2018 6:29am
Agree. He shouldn't have done that... But AC should have received the same punishment. At least Plessinger didn't put half the pack in danger.
mattyhamz2
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mattyhamz2 2/12/2018 6:46am
2/12/2018 6:46am
Does anyone have a video of what AC did? I still haven’t seen what he did
kb228
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kb228 2/12/2018 6:54am
2/12/2018 6:54am
Werent there tough blocks in the way where ac went off the track? If i remember right he didnt have a lot of options other than stopping, and turning around and going back the way he came

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mxbrian15
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mxbrian15 2/12/2018 6:55am
2/12/2018 6:55am
Sure, he didn't gain an advantage, but he crashed! You think he still would have been only 7 seconds ahead of the guy behind him if he had gotten back onto the track where he left it? You should lose time when you crash, not gain time or have the same gap...
skup11
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skup11 2/12/2018 6:59am
2/12/2018 6:59am
mxbrian15 wrote:
Sure, he didn't gain an advantage, but he crashed! You think he still would have been only 7 seconds ahead of the guy behind him if...
Sure, he didn't gain an advantage, but he crashed! You think he still would have been only 7 seconds ahead of the guy behind him if he had gotten back onto the track where he left it? You should lose time when you crash, not gain time or have the same gap...
But it looked like it might have had an impact on where he actually finished...
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Roostermx58 2/12/2018 7:00am
2/12/2018 7:00am
Interesting because Plessinger is a Monster rider as well.
wardy
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wardy 2/12/2018 7:23am
2/12/2018 7:23am
It's really sad there isn't at least minimal consistency to the enforcement of this stuff and is why riders look at it in the light they do.

How can the process be respected if it's tainted in this way. Have to play it fair or it's not a value.
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TDeath21 2/12/2018 7:24am
2/12/2018 7:24am
Penalty for any track cutting, no matter how big or small, should be a MINIMUM of time gained (calculated by how they performed that skipped section in other laps of the race) plus ten seconds. So Plessinger’s would have been about a 15 second penalty if I were running the show. It would have taken him about two seconds to get through the corner and three to turn around instead of going straight to cut the track. Then of course the extra ten is added as a PENALTY because that’s what it should be. If their only punishment when they track cut is to only take the time away they gained by doing it, then why not track cut? They’re playing with house money. As I said, the ten seconds plus time gained is a minimum penalty. They can add more time or positions if they deem the advantage to be more than ten seconds. Cutting the first turn and passing ten guys for instance.
wardy
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wardy 2/12/2018 7:27am
2/12/2018 7:27am
Actually if they don't make it "sting" it never will matter. dock a lap. call it a day.



bet it won't happen again the way it does now.


but then a yellow flag isn't a yellow flag either. so there is that. Smile
mxbrian15
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mxbrian15 2/12/2018 7:27am
2/12/2018 7:27am
skup11 wrote:
But it looked like it might have had an impact on where he actually finished... [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2018/02/10/243256/s1200_pless.jpg[/img]
But it looked like it might have had an impact on where he actually finished...
That’s my point. I agree with being docked positions.
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gt80rider 2/12/2018 7:38am
2/12/2018 7:38am Edited Date/Time 2/12/2018 7:38am
Certainly deserved, but since when do pro racers think it's OK to cut the track during a race? Seriously, it is a Bad trend to have...

We are almost to a point where Feld has to be have designed re-entry points along the track. The Only places you can safely enter after going off course.
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NATEP231 2/12/2018 7:48am
2/12/2018 7:48am
So is it safer for him to reenter the track sideways, close to the end of a whoops section? He cut 3 whoops, a berm and one roller calm the fuck down people. 9.9 Times out of 10 they don’t think “oh fuck yeah I cart wheeled now I get to cut some track”
Donovan759
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Donovan759 2/12/2018 7:51am
2/12/2018 7:51am
mattyhamz2 wrote:
Does anyone have a video of what AC did? I still haven’t seen what he did
Does anyone have a video of what AC did? I still haven’t seen what he did
Watch the start of the 250 main at Oakland.
TriRacer27
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TriRacer27 2/12/2018 9:15am
2/12/2018 9:15am
He should've been docked 2 positions based on the time he saved.

I think they have difficulty enforcing the rule during the start because 1) some riders cut out through the blocks for safety, to avoid a crash or avoid causing one and 2) many times riders are pushed out by another rider and 3) it's much harder to calculate an appropriate punishment in that situation.
wardy
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wardy 2/12/2018 9:24am
2/12/2018 9:24am
^^^^ this is all true. HOWEVER how the kid came back ON the track is the issue, not how he got there.

so in both cases there should have been consequences if you are following the rules that are in place. If you are picking and choosing when, who, and how to enforce rules the process is marginalized and it makes it an issue.

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skup11 2/12/2018 9:24am
2/12/2018 9:24am
mxbrian15 wrote:
That’s my point. I agree with being docked positions.
Sorry I was agreeing with you, and disagreeing with average Joe.
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KennyT 2/12/2018 9:26am
2/12/2018 9:26am
Maybe track cutting should be enforced with a DQ. Pretty simple enforcement tool....you cut the track 1’ or 1000’ you are automatically DQed.

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Dirty Points 2/12/2018 9:30am
2/12/2018 9:30am Edited Date/Time 2/12/2018 9:31am
TriRacer27 wrote:
He should've been docked 2 positions based on the time he saved. I think they have difficulty enforcing the rule during the start because 1) some...
He should've been docked 2 positions based on the time he saved.

I think they have difficulty enforcing the rule during the start because 1) some riders cut out through the blocks for safety, to avoid a crash or avoid causing one and 2) many times riders are pushed out by another rider and 3) it's much harder to calculate an appropriate punishment in that situation.
It's not the cutting/leaving for safety or being pushed out that is the problem at the start. It's the careless and dangerous re-entry.
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crusty_xx 2/12/2018 9:30am
2/12/2018 9:30am
RoflCopter726 wrote:
Wasn't it pretty much the same thing with Savatgy last season?
how ironic it would be if Savatgy wins the title this year because of 1 or 2 points over plessinger
TriRacer27
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TriRacer27 2/12/2018 9:35am
2/12/2018 9:35am
TriRacer27 wrote:
He should've been docked 2 positions based on the time he saved. I think they have difficulty enforcing the rule during the start because 1) some...
He should've been docked 2 positions based on the time he saved.

I think they have difficulty enforcing the rule during the start because 1) some riders cut out through the blocks for safety, to avoid a crash or avoid causing one and 2) many times riders are pushed out by another rider and 3) it's much harder to calculate an appropriate punishment in that situation.
Dirty Points wrote:
It's not the cutting/leaving for safety or being pushed out that is the problem at the start. It's the careless and dangerous re-entry.
I know that, but it's harder to enforce because many times it wasn't the rider's fault to exit the track, but evaluating what the right penalty should be is much harder.
Dirty Points 2/12/2018 9:40am
2/12/2018 9:40am Edited Date/Time 2/12/2018 9:43am
TriRacer27 wrote:
I know that, but it's harder to enforce because many times it wasn't the rider's fault to exit the track, but evaluating what the right penalty...
I know that, but it's harder to enforce because many times it wasn't the rider's fault to exit the track, but evaluating what the right penalty should be is much harder.
It doesn't have to be the exactly right calculated-to-the-second penalty. Just dock the guy something. When you attempt to push through a tough block and knock over half the field, no penalty is the wrongest penalty.
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yak651 2/12/2018 9:49am
2/12/2018 9:49am
Should have to at least come to a complete stop before re-entering. Crazy that they just let people come back on at race speed.
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GuyB 2/12/2018 9:53am
2/12/2018 9:53am
Roostermx58 wrote:
Interesting because Plessinger is a Monster rider as well.
What does Monster have to do with rule interpretation and enforcement?

Answer: Nothing.
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Motofinne 2/12/2018 10:02am
2/12/2018 10:02am
skup11 wrote:
But it looked like it might have had an impact on where he actually finished... [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2018/02/10/243256/s1200_pless.jpg[/img]
But it looked like it might have had an impact on where he actually finished...
That is very, very interesting.

Plessinger got away with that.
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RichieW13 2/12/2018 10:28am
2/12/2018 10:28am Edited Date/Time 2/12/2018 10:30am
mattyhamz2 wrote:
Does anyone have a video of what AC did? I still haven’t seen what he did
Does anyone have a video of what AC did? I still haven’t seen what he did
He cut inside the tough blocks on the start turn. When he came back onto the track, he kicked up a tough block that took McElrath out.

How is there no penalty for cutting the inside of the start turn? Especially when doing so causes others to crash.

Doesn't the rule say something about "re-entering the course as safely as possible"? Well, riding over a tough block and knocking it onto the track doesn't seem very safe.
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wardy 2/12/2018 10:33am
2/12/2018 10:33am
Roostermx58 wrote:
Interesting because Plessinger is a Monster rider as well.
GuyB wrote:
What does Monster have to do with rule interpretation and enforcement?

Answer: Nothing.
believe what you will.

but the bottom line is follow the damn rules, or don't have any. this way the question isn't asked and the black helicopters aren't summoned.

Feld calls these guys "entertainers" last i remember they are riders, racers.

If it's a "show" cool, if it's a race, follow the rules evenly, and by the book.

then there won't be this guessing game.

anyone knows damn well if a 3 digit dude smokes a tuf block into the first corner crowd and advances many positions there would be a whole different consequence.



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TriRacer27 2/12/2018 10:37am
2/12/2018 10:37am
skup11 wrote:
But it looked like it might have had an impact on where he actually finished... [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2018/02/10/243256/s1200_pless.jpg[/img]
But it looked like it might have had an impact on where he actually finished...
Motofinne wrote:
That is very, very interesting.

Plessinger got away with that.
That's why I said it should've been 2 positions.
Motofinne
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Motofinne 2/12/2018 10:40am
2/12/2018 10:40am Edited Date/Time 2/12/2018 10:41am
TriRacer27 wrote:
That's why I said it should've been 2 positions.
You could actually make a case that every rider out there would choose to cut the track like Plessinger if the penalty would only be 1 spot.
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TXDirt 2/12/2018 11:29am
2/12/2018 11:29am
Jeremy Martin at one outdoor race last year went off the track after a mistake. Skipped the uphill, a turn, and a downhill and got right back behind the rider he was battling with. Wasn't docked if I recall. Was the most blatant track cutting I have ever seen at a National level race with no penalty.

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