Plastics Company/Product Idea

jonesaustin
Profile picture for user jonesaustin
Posts
2500
Joined
7/6/2009
Location
Austin, TX US
jonesaustin
Edited Date/Time 6/1/2016 2:26pm
It would be cool if a new MX plastics company made customized designs, as in the actual curves and true design of the plastic, so that you could buy one off shrouds, fenders, you name it. they would adhere to the bolt patterns but could also invite custom designs from customers. not sure how feasible this would be, cost wise, and while t shirts aren't comparable, the same way you can now get one shirt made for almost nothing, any way you want one, the technology probably exists to feed unique designs via software to xyz company, and get some radical new covering.
|
Tpog496
Profile picture for user Tpog496
Posts
1282
Joined
9/16/2014
Location
MN US
Tpog496 5/31/2016 6:01pm
5/31/2016 6:01pm
MxKing809 wrote:
Slater skins?
I heard they're not doing so hot, that market space of six consumers may become available soon.
colintrax
Profile picture for user colintrax
Posts
4704
Joined
8/25/2015
Location
Taylorsville, GA US
Fantasy
2363rd
colintrax 5/31/2016 6:01pm
5/31/2016 6:01pm
Don't plan on seeing this in your life time. 3D printing will NEVER be feasible for mass production, anyone who says otherwise is illinformed. If you really want custom plastics, 3D printing will work. But it'll probably cost more than the whole bike is worth, and look like shit. Yes 3D printing will get better, but it'll never match the quality of injection mold.
You won't be able to do custom plastics with injection molding unless you intend to pay for the molds. $$$

The Shop

See All »
RandyS
Profile picture for user RandyS
Posts
6184
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Grass Valley, CA US
RandyS 5/31/2016 6:12pm
5/31/2016 6:12pm
You will eventually be able to download and print your own plastics in your bedroom. I wouldn't be surprised to see it be commonplace in the next 10-15 years. I know nothing about the 3D printer industry but I do know shit's happening fast.
jonesaustin
Profile picture for user jonesaustin
Posts
2500
Joined
7/6/2009
Location
Austin, TX US
jonesaustin 5/31/2016 7:47pm
5/31/2016 7:47pm
RandyS wrote:
You will eventually be able to download and print your own plastics in your bedroom. I wouldn't be surprised to see it be commonplace in the...
You will eventually be able to download and print your own plastics in your bedroom. I wouldn't be surprised to see it be commonplace in the next 10-15 years. I know nothing about the 3D printer industry but I do know shit's happening fast.
my thoughts exactly
reded
Profile picture for user reded
Posts
3685
Joined
3/26/2011
Location
KS US
reded 5/31/2016 7:51pm
5/31/2016 7:51pm
colintrax wrote:
Don't plan on seeing this in your life time. 3D printing will NEVER be feasible for mass production, anyone who says otherwise is illinformed. If you...
Don't plan on seeing this in your life time. 3D printing will NEVER be feasible for mass production, anyone who says otherwise is illinformed. If you really want custom plastics, 3D printing will work. But it'll probably cost more than the whole bike is worth, and look like shit. Yes 3D printing will get better, but it'll never match the quality of injection mold.
You won't be able to do custom plastics with injection molding unless you intend to pay for the molds. $$$
Would it be possible to make the mold with the 3D printer?
RCB33
Profile picture for user RCB33
Posts
835
Joined
6/22/2015
Location
Drexel, MO US
Fantasy
139th
RCB33 5/31/2016 7:54pm
5/31/2016 7:54pm
Based on my research 3D printing is on the edge of being a fad or the next big evolution. Either way custom plastics would be next to useless without custom shaped graphics and I doubt it would be cheap. I do think it's feasible though...
colintrax
Profile picture for user colintrax
Posts
4704
Joined
8/25/2015
Location
Taylorsville, GA US
Fantasy
2363rd
colintrax 5/31/2016 8:02pm
5/31/2016 8:02pm
reded wrote:
Would it be possible to make the mold with the 3D printer?
Yes, I've done it. But it kinda defeats the purpose for one off custom stuff. Not "custom" if everyone is using it. And it's still expensive to do for just yourself.

We have different colors, can mix and match years, and order powerflow kits. IMO that's plenty custom. The money to go with true custom plastics is just unreasonable.
MR. X
Profile picture for user MR. X
Posts
6917
Joined
6/24/2010
Location
North Tonawanda, NY US
MR. X 5/31/2016 8:06pm
5/31/2016 8:06pm
reded wrote:
Would it be possible to make the mold with the 3D printer?
You wouldn't be able to inject plastic into a mold made of plastic , the temperature and pressure the plastic is injected at would far exceed the properties of the tool itself.
colintrax
Profile picture for user colintrax
Posts
4704
Joined
8/25/2015
Location
Taylorsville, GA US
Fantasy
2363rd
colintrax 5/31/2016 8:09pm
5/31/2016 8:09pm
reded wrote:
Would it be possible to make the mold with the 3D printer?
MR. X wrote:
You wouldn't be able to inject plastic into a mold made of plastic , the temperature and pressure the plastic is injected at would far exceed...
You wouldn't be able to inject plastic into a mold made of plastic , the temperature and pressure the plastic is injected at would far exceed the properties of the tool itself.
Not entirely true, a plastic mold isn't going to give you the quality a metal mold would. But it is possible to use a plastic mold, atleast on a small scale. Doing shrouds.... eh maybe not.
However the more common practice is to use a 3D printer for the model to make a mold around.
MR. X
Profile picture for user MR. X
Posts
6917
Joined
6/24/2010
Location
North Tonawanda, NY US
MR. X 5/31/2016 8:49pm
5/31/2016 8:49pm
colintrax wrote:
Not entirely true, a plastic mold isn't going to give you the quality a metal mold would. But it is possible to use a plastic mold...
Not entirely true, a plastic mold isn't going to give you the quality a metal mold would. But it is possible to use a plastic mold, atleast on a small scale. Doing shrouds.... eh maybe not.
However the more common practice is to use a 3D printer for the model to make a mold around.
I guess we'll have to disagree , even on small run prototype molds, we never use anything less then aluminum ,and even those get beat to shit quickly depending on the material.
sumdood
Profile picture for user sumdood
Posts
5561
Joined
3/11/2013
Location
San Clemente, CA US
Fantasy
1267th
sumdood 5/31/2016 10:14pm
5/31/2016 10:14pm
Maybe big oversized radiator shrouds that fit the bolt pattern but are huge, then draw whatever shape you want and they can custom cut them ? Like surfboard blanks, sort of, but different... lol.
philG
Profile picture for user philG
Posts
9715
Joined
5/12/2012
Location
GB
philG 6/1/2016 1:50am
6/1/2016 1:50am
RCB33 wrote:
Based on my research 3D printing is on the edge of being a fad or the next big evolution. Either way custom plastics would be next...
Based on my research 3D printing is on the edge of being a fad or the next big evolution. Either way custom plastics would be next to useless without custom shaped graphics and I doubt it would be cheap. I do think it's feasible though...
Its a big fad.. it has great value for low volume prototype , and 'money no object ' work, but its too slow and expensive to produce anything remotely retailable. This is a recent project we did ..


Its feasible to the point of 'what would you pay' . Print time of 60 hours for set of rad shrouds is my guess.. even at £25 an hour that's £1500.

The unit cost of modern plastics is pennies , once you have the tooling, which is why bikes don't change every year like they used to, because to keep costs down , things have to use common tooling .
Sheriff245 6/1/2016 4:51am
6/1/2016 4:51am
UFO, R-Tech and Cycra already make different shape plastics for various models.

Pit Row

See All »
jamma10
Profile picture for user jamma10
Posts
10576
Joined
8/24/2008
Location
Bristol GB
jamma10 6/1/2016 5:22am
6/1/2016 5:22am
Considering how horrific some peoples custom graphics kits are I hope custom plastics don't make an appearance anytime soon.
MR. X
Profile picture for user MR. X
Posts
6917
Joined
6/24/2010
Location
North Tonawanda, NY US
MR. X 6/1/2016 5:27am
6/1/2016 5:27am
jamma10 wrote:
Considering how horrific some peoples custom graphics kits are I hope custom plastics don't make an appearance anytime soon.
If they do ,they'll be made in China, they'll look like shit ,won't fit ,have flashing hanging off the edges and of course sun fade like a mofo.
Markopolo400
Profile picture for user Markopolo400
Posts
1377
Joined
7/24/2012
Location
St. Paul-ish, MN US
Markopolo400 6/1/2016 7:37am
6/1/2016 7:37am
colintrax wrote:
Don't plan on seeing this in your life time. 3D printing will NEVER be feasible for mass production, anyone who says otherwise is illinformed. If you...
Don't plan on seeing this in your life time. 3D printing will NEVER be feasible for mass production, anyone who says otherwise is illinformed. If you really want custom plastics, 3D printing will work. But it'll probably cost more than the whole bike is worth, and look like shit. Yes 3D printing will get better, but it'll never match the quality of injection mold.
You won't be able to do custom plastics with injection molding unless you intend to pay for the molds. $$$
Ehhhhhh I would disagree with you on that.

I work with 3D printers for a living, it's amazing how fast they are developing, and what they are now capable of.
colintrax
Profile picture for user colintrax
Posts
4704
Joined
8/25/2015
Location
Taylorsville, GA US
Fantasy
2363rd
colintrax 6/1/2016 8:29am
6/1/2016 8:29am
Markopolo400 wrote:
Ehhhhhh I would disagree with you on that. I work with 3D printers for a living, it's amazing how fast they are developing, and what they...
Ehhhhhh I would disagree with you on that.

I work with 3D printers for a living, it's amazing how fast they are developing, and what they are now capable of.
And what makes you think they'll ever be able to compete with injection molding in speed, quality, and cost? It's just not possible.
Andrew337
Profile picture for user Andrew337
Posts
128
Joined
6/24/2015
Location
Grand Prairie, TX US
Andrew337 6/1/2016 9:16am
6/1/2016 9:16am Edited Date/Time 6/1/2016 9:18am
Markopolo400 wrote:
Ehhhhhh I would disagree with you on that. I work with 3D printers for a living, it's amazing how fast they are developing, and what they...
Ehhhhhh I would disagree with you on that.

I work with 3D printers for a living, it's amazing how fast they are developing, and what they are now capable of.
colintrax wrote:
And what makes you think they'll ever be able to compete with injection molding in speed, quality, and cost? It's just not possible.
I agree, injection molding is incredibly cost effective in mass production and would be tough to compete with given identical part geometry. But, keep in mind that there are geometries you can't accomplish with anything other than additive manufacturing processes (like 3D printing), and that opens up a world of possibilities. Imagine solid parts with hollow internal sections to save weight or tune stiffness. Parts that are physically impossible to create using subtractive manufacturing (machining) or molding. That's where I see a real benefit of 3D printing in manufacturing, aside from the obvious benefits of one-off custom parts.

But in regard to custom MX plastics, I just can't imagine it being priced competitively with mass-produced injection molded parts. It is big money to tool up for injection molding, so you need to be doing a big run of parts for it to pay off, but then it really pays off well.
sumdood
Profile picture for user sumdood
Posts
5561
Joined
3/11/2013
Location
San Clemente, CA US
Fantasy
1267th
sumdood 6/1/2016 9:33am
6/1/2016 9:33am
I hacksawed and surformed the front fenders on a quad, does that count as custom ? Laughing


The eyeballs are extra of course

whyZ
Profile picture for user whyZ
Posts
801
Joined
4/15/2009
Location
Phoenix, AZ US
whyZ 6/1/2016 10:03am
6/1/2016 10:03am
I think what you guys are missing here is that there's only one type plastic that is being used to make fenders , UV inhibited polyethylene. When in actuality there's numerous thermo forming material that could be used to make a fender, and of course different manufacturing process's to achieve it.

Vacuum forming or pressure forming is what falls between injection molding and 3-d printing as far as tooling, set-up cost and small production runs. With this type of production method, and if you were somewhat crafty you could do this in a kitchen oven. Which I think maybe the OP was alluding too. With the vacuum form machined out of MDF you could make a sectional tool that could one could change design and shape as long as the release angels were kept.

MR. X
Profile picture for user MR. X
Posts
6917
Joined
6/24/2010
Location
North Tonawanda, NY US
MR. X 6/1/2016 10:14am
6/1/2016 10:14am
As far as quality goes , I could see 3D printing being more precise , most times when a tight tolerance is needed with an injection molded part ,it has to be secondary machined . Injection molded plastic often distorts as it cools .
DannoJ919
Profile picture for user DannoJ919
Posts
187
Joined
10/21/2015
Location
Holly, MI US
DannoJ919 6/1/2016 10:24am
6/1/2016 10:24am
I'm working with a material now (PE or PP) with an additive that uses all the standard injection molded tools, presses and similar settings that is getting a 20% weight reduction. Hard to beat injection molding for cost.

Underdog999
Profile picture for user Underdog999
Posts
662
Joined
11/20/2011
Location
Kalaheo, HI US
Underdog999 6/1/2016 10:31am
6/1/2016 10:31am
whyZ wrote:
I think what you guys are missing here is that there's only one type plastic that is being used to make fenders , UV inhibited polyethylene...
I think what you guys are missing here is that there's only one type plastic that is being used to make fenders , UV inhibited polyethylene. When in actuality there's numerous thermo forming material that could be used to make a fender, and of course different manufacturing process's to achieve it.

Vacuum forming or pressure forming is what falls between injection molding and 3-d printing as far as tooling, set-up cost and small production runs. With this type of production method, and if you were somewhat crafty you could do this in a kitchen oven. Which I think maybe the OP was alluding too. With the vacuum form machined out of MDF you could make a sectional tool that could one could change design and shape as long as the release angels were kept.

I agree with you. You still can't do just 1 that would be cost effective for the buyer. It all comes down to the mold, right? If you have a great mold, and the right materials, you can do anything. Molds are the part of the puzzle that are expensive, and how would you price the "plastic" for a one off? (when plastic is bought in such huge quantities?)
philG
Profile picture for user philG
Posts
9715
Joined
5/12/2012
Location
GB
philG 6/1/2016 10:58am
6/1/2016 10:58am
RandyS wrote:
You will eventually be able to download and print your own plastics in your bedroom. I wouldn't be surprised to see it be commonplace in the...
You will eventually be able to download and print your own plastics in your bedroom. I wouldn't be surprised to see it be commonplace in the next 10-15 years. I know nothing about the 3D printer industry but I do know shit's happening fast.
You are 100% correct, you do indeed know nothing about the 3D printer industry.

Post a reply to: Plastics Company/Product Idea