Pipes Twin v Single

VRR7
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Looking through the latest MXGP pictures. The twin pipe started to look appealing to me compared to a single pipe.
I normally subscribe to the "one is cheaper and simpler so why change it" MXA concept and I know the consensus is single for most MX'ers. However compare some of these pictures and decide for your self what you think - Aesthetically it looks like a step forward in design to me.







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CarlinoJoeVideo
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8/4/2016 11:35am
I'll answer your question with an exaggerated question...

Isn't it double the weight? If someone asked, "Would you rather have 5lbs added to your bike or 10lbs?" What would you say?
kiwifan
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8/4/2016 2:28pm
Yup, each twin pipe is a lot shorter and therefore quite a bit lighter ...not only that the bikes are quieter...you compare a stock Honda to a Kawasaki and its like chalk and cheese...even with aftermarket pipes on imho

I know I owned a 2015 Honda and now own a 2016+2017 Kawasaki

The Shop

Paul333
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8/4/2016 2:44pm
Motocross Action has stated many times that the twin pipes add weight. Any of the single side aftermarket exhausts saves 2+ pounds or more depending on the brand.
BroFoSho
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8/4/2016 2:45pm
The stock twin pipes (with mid Y-section) are probably a pound or two heavier than other OEM single pipes. I was surprised how heavy the entire setup is when I pulled them off my 14' CRF and held them.

However, they are NIGHT AND DAY Quieter than other systems.
A Kawi sounds like puts out the same db as a god damned monster truck, while a Honda can't be much louder than a tricked out pit bike.
TeamGreen
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8/4/2016 3:01pm
When you get around to meeting the latest sound tests...duals make a lot of sense.
JohnnyD13
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8/4/2016 3:01pm
kiwifan wrote:
Yup, each twin pipe is a lot shorter and therefore quite a bit lighter ...not only that the bikes are quieter...you compare a stock Honda to...
Yup, each twin pipe is a lot shorter and therefore quite a bit lighter ...not only that the bikes are quieter...you compare a stock Honda to a Kawasaki and its like chalk and cheese...even with aftermarket pipes on imho

I know I owned a 2015 Honda and now own a 2016+2017 Kawasaki

I just went from a 15 kx450 to a 16 Honda. How do u like the switch
hvaughn88
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8/4/2016 3:12pm
From strictly a "looks" standpoint, I like the look of the duals.
8/4/2016 3:27pm
I have the duals and absolutely love them. Bikes relatively quiet, proportional, and doesn't feel heavy at all.

I wasn't a believer until I got this bike... I get it now. I'm also not a hard core racer.



kiwifan
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8/4/2016 3:34pm
JohnnyD13 wrote:
I just went from a 15 kx450 to a 16 Honda. How do u like the switch
I liked the newer Kawasaki in 2016...I had it pretty much hopped up to the max (which resulted in one grenaded engine after not putting better bottom end components in, which were already apparently a little suss)...hopped up power was ok (as much as my old hopped up Honda, around 63hp), suspension was ok, handling was similar to the Honda but a little more stable at speed, perhaps not quite as flickable as the Honda but thats ok. I have now got a 2017 model which I am currently sorting, but interested in what the new Honda is like (looks good on paper).

Weirdly enough I am not getting the results I did when I was on the Honda, but I dont think thats the bikes problem.

How did you find your switch?
TeamGreen
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8/4/2016 3:56pm
JohnnyD13 wrote:
I just went from a 15 kx450 to a 16 Honda. How do u like the switch
kiwifan wrote:
I liked the newer Kawasaki in 2016...I had it pretty much hopped up to the max (which resulted in one grenaded engine after not putting better...
I liked the newer Kawasaki in 2016...I had it pretty much hopped up to the max (which resulted in one grenaded engine after not putting better bottom end components in, which were already apparently a little suss)...hopped up power was ok (as much as my old hopped up Honda, around 63hp), suspension was ok, handling was similar to the Honda but a little more stable at speed, perhaps not quite as flickable as the Honda but thats ok. I have now got a 2017 model which I am currently sorting, but interested in what the new Honda is like (looks good on paper).

Weirdly enough I am not getting the results I did when I was on the Honda, but I dont think thats the bikes problem.

How did you find your switch?
Raise comp .5 via a good piston.
Have it mapped for U4.4 using your favorite pipe, of-course.
Ride the damn thing.
RG1
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8/4/2016 4:07pm Edited Date/Time 8/4/2016 4:07pm
The TM's are twin pipe in the GP's this year too. It has a really great and unique sound. If any of you are heading to the GP's in Charlotte or GH definitely check the TM out

8/4/2016 4:38pm
kiwifan wrote:
Yup, each twin pipe is a lot shorter and therefore quite a bit lighter ...not only that the bikes are quieter...you compare a stock Honda to...
Yup, each twin pipe is a lot shorter and therefore quite a bit lighter ...not only that the bikes are quieter...you compare a stock Honda to a Kawasaki and its like chalk and cheese...even with aftermarket pipes on imho

I know I owned a 2015 Honda and now own a 2016+2017 Kawasaki

My FMF single is 4lbs lighter than the stock dualls on my14 Honda 450.. Seriously... 4lbs!!
nytsmaC
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8/4/2016 4:53pm
Mr. Leib said a while ago that he sells both, under AMA Pro sound regulations the duals make more power. Otherwise the single is better.
VRR7
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8/4/2016 5:37pm
hvaughn88 wrote:
From strictly a "looks" standpoint, I like the look of the duals.
^^ This is exactly what I picked up from these pictures. A single looks "dated" compared to the dual. 2017 CRF450 dual just got even better from what I have seen.
VRR7
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8/4/2016 5:38pm
RG1 wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2016/08/04/145924/s1200_image.jpg[/img]


Looks Hot !
VRR7
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8/4/2016 5:41pm




Looks good like a shorty looks on a 2T

VRR7
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8/4/2016 5:45pm
I have the duals and absolutely love them. Bikes relatively quiet, proportional, and doesn't feel heavy at all. I wasn't a believer until I got this...
I have the duals and absolutely love them. Bikes relatively quiet, proportional, and doesn't feel heavy at all.

I wasn't a believer until I got this bike... I get it now. I'm also not a hard core racer.



Looks great - Tidy and modern
VRR7
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8/4/2016 5:47pm
I have the duals and absolutely love them. Bikes relatively quiet, proportional, and doesn't feel heavy at all. I wasn't a believer until I got this...
I have the duals and absolutely love them. Bikes relatively quiet, proportional, and doesn't feel heavy at all.

I wasn't a believer until I got this bike... I get it now. I'm also not a hard core racer.



How much do these aftermarket dual pipes weight compared to the standard ? v After Market single that meets MXGP sound tests ?
VRR7
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8/4/2016 5:51pm


2017 - This view of the engine will show another look at the intake. See the yellow dial? That's the choke, showing how high the new throttle body is stashed on this CRF450R. Below the throttle body is the frame backbone, which supports the shock mount. Normally, this section is above the air intake, but has been moved to support this large change and mount the shock lower and at a different angle. Behind the cylinder head, you'll see a pipe leading out the back of the bike. This is the new exhaust mid-pipe, which now separates before the shock, instead of after like the previous dual-exhaust CRF models. This is only possible because the throttle body is mounted so high on the bike.

VRR7
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8/4/2016 5:52pm


One small - One big - Small one sound test side :-)
8/4/2016 7:34pm
I have the duals and absolutely love them. Bikes relatively quiet, proportional, and doesn't feel heavy at all. I wasn't a believer until I got this...
I have the duals and absolutely love them. Bikes relatively quiet, proportional, and doesn't feel heavy at all.

I wasn't a believer until I got this bike... I get it now. I'm also not a hard core racer.



VRR7 wrote:
How much do these aftermarket dual pipes weight compared to the standard ? v After Market single that meets MXGP sound tests ?
I don't have exact numbers but you can tell they weight quite a bit less. That being said, two pipes are never going to weigh less than one. The look is a big reason I like them. Ive also gotten used to both legs feeling the number plate, they almost hold you in position some times.

If weight is your absolute number one issue...buy a damn two stroke.
BobPA
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8/4/2016 7:41pm
I'm still torn on the duals. Hated it at first, but they are starting to grow in me...mostly because sound is such a big issue anymore. I'm happy I do not have to pay for aftermarket duals, that's for sure...
TeamGreen
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8/4/2016 8:02pm Edited Date/Time 8/4/2016 8:02pm
VRR7 wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/stories/2016/07/25/full_2017HondaCRF450Rspyshots_5_of_6_618398.jpg?1469500237[/img] One small - One big - Small one sound test side :-)


One small - One big - Small one sound test side :-)
Actually the small one is on the short-side...
The Rock
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8/4/2016 8:33pm Edited Date/Time 8/4/2016 9:13pm
TeamGreen wrote:
When you get around to meeting the latest sound tests...duals make a lot of sense.
Good point but your observation is more correct on the MXGP side of things than it is US SX or National side. This year the FIM revised the 2 M Max test to require the motors to hit the OEM redline or you fail sound test.

For the US there is no verification of what RPM the motor hit so mapping games still apply since the AMA is still using last year's FIM suund test spec. They aren't lagging as it is their norm to have the FIM test drive new regulations for a year then the AMA follows suit. Mind you there will still be gamesmanship to pass sound but at least having the RPM acoustically verified is a step in the right direction.

Full disclosure: I introduced the company that developed Race Patrol to the AMA and FIM at the MEC 2014. Fast forward to present time and I'm the US rep for Slovenian based EA Labs who worked miracles to develop this system in a short amount of time.






FIM purchased the Race Patrol system. There is also the Race Patrol Lite version perfect for exhaust manufacturers, race teams and local promoters.

Both systems are IOS based completely automated and bring sound testing into the 21st century.
VRR7
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8/5/2016 12:20am
TeamGreen wrote:
Actually the small one is on the short-side...
I understand the variable sizes is part of the tuned length calculation.
kiwifan
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8/5/2016 12:30am
TeamGreen wrote:
Actually the small one is on the short-side...
VRR7 wrote:
I understand the variable sizes is part of the tuned length calculation.
Yup, to equalise the exhaust flow

Its actually quite interesting where the new exhaust route goes and the top of the shock support being lower plus closer to the engine cylinder, that should equal even more 'centralised mass' and an even lighter feeling while riding.. I think ML mentioned that he thought the clutch basket was higher and closer to the cylinder...again making it more centralised and lighter.

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