Pick that new KTM/BMW/Ducati/GasGas/etc you're thinking about sooner than later

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6/20/2018 10:09 AM

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Twitter: @ftemoto
Instagram: @mstusiak

6/20/2018 10:13 AM

Something something MAGA...

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6/20/2018 10:20 AM

I'm surprised that you didn't ask for Stefan Pierer's contact details

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#1
KX125

6/20/2018 11:55 AM

The price of a Alta will keep looking better and better.

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6/20/2018 12:16 PM

Holigan wrote:

The price of a Alta will keep looking better and better.

Lots of EU parts on the Alta.

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I ripped a start from Egypt and I was happy about that.

6/20/2018 12:38 PM
Edited Date/Time: 6/20/2018 12:42 PM

Luckily the Dollar is strengthening vs. the Euro, which looks likely to implode any time. The Austrian President is also a Trump in his own right, putting his own country first, so could be that Austria moves away from the Euro altogether. And of course Italy is in a shambles, so Ducatis may get real cheap real quick.

I can't imagine why tariffs would affect motorcycles anyway, outside of Alta there isn't a off-road moto manufacturer.

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6/20/2018 12:47 PM

stone881 wrote:

Luckily the Dollar is strengthening vs. the Euro, which looks likely to implode any time. The Austrian President is also a Trump in his own right, putting his own country first, so could be that Austria moves away from the Euro altogether. And of course Italy is in a shambles, so Ducatis may get real cheap real quick.

I can't imagine why tariffs would affect motorcycles anyway, outside of Alta there isn't a off-road moto manufacturer.

Motorcycles get picked on in these fights because we are a gullible, toss away constituency

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Twitter: @ftemoto
Instagram: @mstusiak

6/20/2018 1:30 PM

Wouldn't it be the other way around? That those in Europe would want to buy the affected American products before the prices go up?

Or are you hinting that there is potential for the price of KTMs etc to go up in the US as a result of US taxing those goods?

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17 KTM 450 SXF - AMAZING!

6/20/2018 1:36 PM

Cant say expensive Harleys is a big concern but man I'm going to miss the old Jack Daniels sad

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6/20/2018 1:40 PM

zehn wrote:

Something something MAGA...

You have gotta come up with some more material. Please, I hope that did not offend you.

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Tomac and/or Anderson for 2020.....

6/20/2018 1:42 PM

zehn wrote:

Something something MAGA...

BobPA wrote:

You have gotta come up with some more material. Please, I hope that did not offend you.

Didn’t offend me, actually posted this before my quip to you in the other thread. I’m not trying to start any arguments, just poking a little fun here and there

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6/20/2018 2:44 PM

adamdf wrote:

Wouldn't it be the other way around? That those in Europe would want to buy the affected American products before the prices go up?

Or are you hinting that there is potential for the price of KTMs etc to go up in the US as a result of US taxing those goods?

I think you've captured it.

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Twitter: @ftemoto
Instagram: @mstusiak

6/20/2018 2:52 PM

I think you have NOT captured it. What little I could see of the article is about the EU putting a tariff on goods going into the EU. Your thread title is misleading. SO STRANGE for yet another Vital MX thread that turns out to be junk.

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6/20/2018 3:03 PM

adamdf wrote:

Wouldn't it be the other way around? That those in Europe would want to buy the affected American products before the prices go up?

Or are you hinting that there is potential for the price of KTMs etc to go up in the US as a result of US taxing those goods?

Distinct possibility.

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6/20/2018 3:53 PM
Edited Date/Time: 6/20/2018 4:08 PM

KDXGarage wrote:

I think you have NOT captured it. What little I could see of the article is about the EU putting a tariff on goods going into the EU. Your thread title is misleading. SO STRANGE for yet another Vital MX thread that turns out to be junk.

No, he captured it. Not that it wasn't obvious given my retaliatory feedback loop comment.

US levies tariffs on steel and aluminum; EU retaliates with a tariff on Harley's.

But you're probably right, given President Trump's attitude toward tariffs there's no chance that the US will levy tariffs on EU based motorcycle manufacturers in retaliation for the EU retaliatory tariff on Harley. ermm

Just commenting that if you're planning to buy one of those brands in the next few months you may want to move on that sooner than later. And, as it turn out, it's not like they haven't considered throwing motorcyclists under the bus before.

https://ultimatemotorcycling.com/2017/05/12/ama-demands-immediate-action-proposed-tariff-european-motorcycles/

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Twitter: @ftemoto
Instagram: @mstusiak

6/20/2018 5:08 PM

stone881 wrote:

Luckily the Dollar is strengthening vs. the Euro, which looks likely to implode any time. The Austrian President is also a Trump in his own right, putting his own country first, so could be that Austria moves away from the Euro altogether. And of course Italy is in a shambles, so Ducatis may get real cheap real quick.

I can't imagine why tariffs would affect motorcycles anyway, outside of Alta there isn't a off-road moto manufacturer.

FreshTopEnd wrote:

Motorcycles get picked on in these fights because we are a gullible, toss away constituency

Ding Ding Ding! We have a winner!

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6/20/2018 8:34 PM

The problem is, American made products get smashed with tariffs when entering other countries, which is killing the USA's manufacturing and farm industry, meanwhile, European consumer products are coming into the USA with far lower tariffs, which means that that over seas MFG thrives, while the USA struggles.

I'm not sure how this works with Japan.

The United States has a $20.4 trillion dollar GDP (gross domestic product, e.g. in layman's terms "person 1 buys a car from American MFG A for $30000, $30000, gets added to the countries GDP") which is $1.2 TRILLION dollars more than the remainder of the G7 COMBINED, so technically, Trump isn't too concerned whether Europe want to remove their tariffs, because, American MFG is travelling just fine without them, how ever, would appreciate a more competitive global economy.

If you want to watch a video to gain proper info, watch this

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6/20/2018 8:46 PM
Edited Date/Time: 6/20/2018 8:47 PM

The trade agreements since the 1990's have not favored us. Time to straighten out these one sided tariffs. In the long term, will work itself out. The Asian 4 are not exempt either. If Spain and Italy drop out of the EU, their products will be very affordable.

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6/20/2018 9:59 PM

Reminds me of when Reagan raised tariffs on large imported Japanese bikes from 5% to about 50% in one year, to protect Harley-Davidson. Tariff wars are as old as trade itself.

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It's impossible for a corporation or government to love you or care about you.

6/20/2018 10:37 PM

mingham97 wrote:

The problem is, American made products get smashed with tariffs when entering other countries, which is killing the USA's manufacturing and farm industry, meanwhile, European consumer products are coming into the USA with far lower tariffs, which means that that over seas MFG thrives, while the USA struggles.

I'm not sure how this works with Japan.

The United States has a $20.4 trillion dollar GDP (gross domestic product, e.g. in layman's terms "person 1 buys a car from American MFG A for $30000, $30000, gets added to the countries GDP") which is $1.2 TRILLION dollars more than the remainder of the G7 COMBINED, so technically, Trump isn't too concerned whether Europe want to remove their tariffs, because, American MFG is travelling just fine without them, how ever, would appreciate a more competitive global economy.

If you want to watch a video to gain proper info, watch this

How about a bit of tariff history.

Tariffs originally were a means for the crown (government) to raise revenue. Only later did they become an instrument of protection for domestic industry. As far back as the 1940s though people began to realize that tariffs are really not good for the world as a whole and can seriously impede economic growth.

In 1947 23 countries signed the GATT (General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade). An agreement where all members pledge to gradually eliminate their import tariffs. In 1994 a new agreement was signed, this time with 123 countries and with this the WTO (World Trade Organization) was born.

General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade - Wikipedia


Yes the EU has tariffs. So does everyone else. No they are not substantially higher that those in the USA. The EU has an equivalent GDP to that of the USA of $20.9 Trillion (2017 data).

Hint. If Trumps lips are moving? He’s probably lying.
I would suggest you use more reliable sources than his lips. wink

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6/21/2018 3:48 AM

endurox wrote:

The trade agreements since the 1990's have not favored us. Time to straighten out these one sided tariffs. In the long term, will work itself out. The Asian 4 are not exempt either. If Spain and Italy drop out of the EU, their products will be very affordable.

Agree!
Did you notice at the G7 summit Trump had a simple solution? Just drop all tariffs.
Crickets from the EU, and the media hardly reported it.

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6/21/2018 4:45 AM

stone881 wrote:

Luckily the Dollar is strengthening vs. the Euro, which looks likely to implode any time. The Austrian President is also a Trump in his own right, putting his own country first, so could be that Austria moves away from the Euro altogether. And of course Italy is in a shambles, so Ducatis may get real cheap real quick.

I can't imagine why tariffs would affect motorcycles anyway, outside of Alta there isn't a off-road moto manufacturer.

Don't exaggerate the influence of Austria. It's a small county with a pretty loud-mouth chancellor (not president). They could not survive a move away from the EU or the euro..

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6/21/2018 4:56 AM
Edited Date/Time: 6/21/2018 4:57 AM

mingham97 wrote:

The problem is, American made products get smashed with tariffs when entering other countries, which is killing the USA's manufacturing and farm industry, meanwhile, European consumer products are coming into the USA with far lower tariffs, which means that that over seas MFG thrives, while the USA struggles.

I'm not sure how this works with Japan.

The United States has a $20.4 trillion dollar GDP (gross domestic product, e.g. in layman's terms "person 1 buys a car from American MFG A for $30000, $30000, gets added to the countries GDP") which is $1.2 TRILLION dollars more than the remainder of the G7 COMBINED, so technically, Trump isn't too concerned whether Europe want to remove their tariffs, because, American MFG is travelling just fine without them, how ever, would appreciate a more competitive global economy.

If you want to watch a video to gain proper info, watch this

Watch this video to gain proper info....from Fox. Obviously biased news network. C'mon man if you are posting sources give us something that ends in .org or .edu.

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6/21/2018 5:36 AM

mingham97 wrote:

The problem is, American made products get smashed with tariffs when entering other countries, which is killing the USA's manufacturing and farm industry, meanwhile, European consumer products are coming into the USA with far lower tariffs, which means that that over seas MFG thrives, while the USA struggles.

I'm not sure how this works with Japan.

The United States has a $20.4 trillion dollar GDP (gross domestic product, e.g. in layman's terms "person 1 buys a car from American MFG A for $30000, $30000, gets added to the countries GDP") which is $1.2 TRILLION dollars more than the remainder of the G7 COMBINED, so technically, Trump isn't too concerned whether Europe want to remove their tariffs, because, American MFG is travelling just fine without them, how ever, would appreciate a more competitive global economy.

If you want to watch a video to gain proper info, watch this

kNewc wrote:

Watch this video to gain proper info....from Fox. Obviously biased news network. C'mon man if you are posting sources give us something that ends in .org or .edu.

I'm thinking that I've seen plenty of content from both of those types of "dots" that's also jaded.

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I ripped a start from Egypt and I was happy about that.

6/21/2018 5:40 AM
Edited Date/Time: 6/21/2018 6:00 AM

PjotrrB wrote:

How about a bit of tariff history.

Tariffs originally were a means for the crown (government) to raise revenue. Only later did they become an instrument of protection for domestic industry. As far back as the 1940s though people began to realize that tariffs are really not good for the world as a whole and can seriously impede economic growth.

In 1947 23 countries signed the GATT (General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade). An agreement where all members pledge to gradually eliminate their import tariffs. In 1994 a new agreement was signed, this time with 123 countries and with this the WTO (World Trade Organization) was born.

General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade - Wikipedia


Yes the EU has tariffs. So does everyone else. No they are not substantially higher that those in the USA. The EU has an equivalent GDP to that of the USA of $20.9 Trillion (2017 data).

Hint. If Trumps lips are moving? He’s probably lying.
I would suggest you use more reliable sources than his lips. wink

nvm

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6/21/2018 5:50 AM

Would knocked down motorcycles assembled in the US be able to carry a "made in the US" tag and do and end run around a tariff?

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6/21/2018 6:02 AM
Edited Date/Time: 6/21/2018 6:03 AM

mingham97 wrote:

The problem is, American made products get smashed with tariffs when entering other countries, which is killing the USA's manufacturing and farm industry, meanwhile, European consumer products are coming into the USA with far lower tariffs, which means that that over seas MFG thrives, while the USA struggles.

I'm not sure how this works with Japan.

The United States has a $20.4 trillion dollar GDP (gross domestic product, e.g. in layman's terms "person 1 buys a car from American MFG A for $30000, $30000, gets added to the countries GDP") which is $1.2 TRILLION dollars more than the remainder of the G7 COMBINED, so technically, Trump isn't too concerned whether Europe want to remove their tariffs, because, American MFG is travelling just fine without them, how ever, would appreciate a more competitive global economy.

If you want to watch a video to gain proper info, watch this

kNewc wrote:

Watch this video to gain proper info....from Fox. Obviously biased news network. C'mon man if you are posting sources give us something that ends in .org or .edu.

TeamGreen wrote:

I'm thinking that I've seen plenty of content from both of those types of "dots" that's also jaded.

Yea, but it's like me telling you KTMs are the fastest, and to prove my point I'll show you every race that Ryan Dungey won on a KTM.

You only saw KTM win right? So it must be the fastest!

At least you have a chance with the other guys lol

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6/21/2018 6:06 AM

Harley international sales make up about 40% of their total. Of that 40%, only 19% go to an EU country. These bikes are typically made in the US and then imported – so the impact of the tariff will be realized only on those 19% of total sales in the EU nations.

Of the remaining 40%, the bulk percentage are sold in the Asia-Pacific area. Most will not remember or know this, but years ago Harley faced a 100% tariff in the Asia-Pacific market when Harley sales began to drastically increase. To get around the profit loss from the tariff increase, Harley had enough justification to invest in an assembly operations plant in Thailand and India. In doing so, Harley actually increased profit margins per unit based on drastically decreased labor rates on units being produced in Thailand & India, although they were clear a labor wage race was not their primary objective.

I anticipate that Harley will take a hard look at domestic built exports to EU nations in order to maintain profit margins. I would suspect a couple options:

1) Harley shifts the EU destined product assembly from the US to one of three worldwide assembly plants in Thailand, India, or Brazil. Although all 3 plants trade at a 6% tariff rate, I would suspect India to be the most likely candidate as they already trade heavily with EU nations and logistically it makes sense.

2) Harley invests in another assembly plant in an EU based country to avoid an import tariff altogether. This would be unlikely based on Harley’s current capital constraints. Although, would be more justifiable based on the recently imposed increased duties.

3) Harley may consider a semi-knockdown operation where manufacturing and assembly still stays in the US but they are not exporting a complete good. This allows Harley to claim the export as component parts instead of a motorcycle which allows them to export at a lower tariff rate. The semi-knockdown unit would still have to undergo final assembly in the EU. Note: In this scenario, Harley would likely ship the entire motorcycle together, but the major components like the engine, suspension, and wheels would not be on the bike. They would be considered “part
exports.” The final assembly operation in EU (Or India or Thailand) would then bolt everything together.

4) Harley just increases the EU sale price to offset the tariff. This is the easiest to do, but they will surely lose market share due to decreased sales volume (When Thailand was charging a 100% tariff, a Road Glides were selling for nearly $60k, and yes, they were still selling in lower numbers)

Will Harley lose US production due to the tariff? Probably. Will Harley still find a way to maintain (or even increase) profit? Probably. Harley will be OK in the end.

It is important to note that the metal’s price increase is also causing price increases and cutting into profit margins noticeably.

You have to understand that our US tariff increase on the EU brands are also going to put them in the same scenario. It would not surprise me to see KTM/Husqvarna invest in a US based assembly plant to assemble complete goods or semi-knockdown units. Yet no-one is talking about this because all anyone can see is the mainstream media BS and political BS around the “trade war.” In a perfect world, Trump’s plan works and instead of importing EU bikes, the Mfg’s are forced to setup shop in the US and create

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6/21/2018 6:13 AM

dcg141 wrote:

Would knocked down motorcycles assembled in the US be able to carry a "made in the US" tag and do and end run around a tariff?

Yes. SKD units are not considered completed goods. They would be exposed to a much lower tariff rate.

"Final assembly" would have to occur in a destination assembly plant. The product would not carry a "made in the US tag" as the final assembly operation dictates the country of origin.

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6/21/2018 6:19 AM

TeamGreen wrote:

Lots of EU parts on the Alta.

EU parts are not subjected to the same tariff increase. The tariff increase is on complete imported products.

Raw material cost increase will currently be Alta's biggest challenge in maintaining profit margins.

Alta's cost will be more practical if the EU brands decide to raise MSRP to offset the tariff increase.

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