PW 50 suspension upgrade?

peltier626
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peltier626
Edited Date/Time 5/22/2020 5:22pm
Anyone familiar with the top end machine (http://topendmachine.com/) PW 50 suspension upgrade. Looking to get a little more time out of the p dub, any other companies make suspension upgrades?
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Falcon
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Falcon 4/22/2019 2:05pm
4/22/2019 2:05pm
The time is so short on a PW....

Even though that kit isn't a lot of money, I'd still save the money and put it toward a 65 when the time is right. That's just me, though.
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mattyhamz2
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mattyhamz2 4/22/2019 2:06pm
4/22/2019 2:06pm
Falcon wrote:
The time is so short on a PW.... Even though that kit isn't a lot of money, I'd still save the money and put it toward...
The time is so short on a PW....

Even though that kit isn't a lot of money, I'd still save the money and put it toward a 65 when the time is right. That's just me, though.
Agreed. Get a 65 and lower it a bit if you need to.

I never understood dumping money into a PW.
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Underground 4/22/2019 2:16pm
4/22/2019 2:16pm
KX60 is lower and coming off a PW they don't need everything a 65 offers over the 60 like disc brakes and more travel. Plenty of good examples around or just rebuild one yourself
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AngryBear
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AngryBear 4/22/2019 2:25pm
4/22/2019 2:25pm
the problem with the PW is it's avail suspension travel, even if there was a way to put in nice forks/shocks, is so little. a KTM/Husky 50 has 8" of travel vs PW's 2.4...

so if you are going to go to the trouble or raising it/adding good suspension, i echo the above, get a KTM/Husky/Cobra 50

also, by the time they have outgrown the PW suspension, they are likely wanting a little more in the engine compartment.

we were on a PW for about 18mo, then transitioned to a TC50, and kids have loved them both at the appropriate age...
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peltier626
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peltier626 4/22/2019 3:01pm
4/22/2019 3:01pm Edited Date/Time 4/23/2019 5:13am
Thanks guys. Y'all are probably right. I'm hoping to skip the ktm/husky/cobra 50's and go straight to the 65's. That's why i am considering a suspension upgrade to the p dub. I'm hoping to prolong it's use until the lil one's big enough for a 65. Which will most likely be a lowered kx65, reclused and toned down (washered and flywheel weighted) until he can handle and learn the bike.
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mikec265
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mikec265 4/22/2019 7:02pm
4/22/2019 7:02pm
I went PW50, XR50, KX65 with my kid. I was afraid of him breaking the PW in half. Went through enough steering stem bearings and races. Your plan sounds pretty good, just don't forget an old milf magnet minivan to haul with. The eBay 60cc kit for the PW and a bigger jet really woke that bike up, but the rest of the bike isn't really built for that much more abuse.
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mikec265 4/22/2019 7:10pm
4/22/2019 7:10pm
Some of the 110cc chinese pitbikes are the same size as a Honda 50. We have a full manual with a clutch but it's too hard for the little dudes to shift. There is a full auto one for about $500 shipped.The suspension is way better than a PW or Honda 50. Low investment and those little Honda copied 110s are only $200 for a complete new engine. If I were to do it all over I'd have bought a Chinese 110 auto instead of a used XR50.
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Question 4/23/2019 1:10am
4/23/2019 1:10am Edited Date/Time 4/23/2019 1:11am
It is a good idea in term of transition.

Personnally my favorite entry level bike is the pw80 (lot of stories but i will make it short). I rode the shit out of it from 5 1/2 to 8, then moved up directly to 80cr (that was limited at the carb the first month).

A kid on a pw80 can ride an unlimited number of hours like a mad man without having his parents thinking much about cost, it is maybe 10 to 20 times cheaper per hour of use.

And the most important in term of fun is not to have the latest and most expensive bike, it is to have a good "not dangerous" track that is changed regularly and that if possible has also different soils (i.e. what if it rains), and friends who are both educated enough and fast to ride with, any time the kids want to ride.
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peltier626
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peltier626 4/23/2019 5:11am
4/23/2019 5:11am
mikec265 wrote:
I went PW50, XR50, KX65 with my kid. I was afraid of him breaking the PW in half. Went through enough steering stem bearings and races...
I went PW50, XR50, KX65 with my kid. I was afraid of him breaking the PW in half. Went through enough steering stem bearings and races. Your plan sounds pretty good, just don't forget an old milf magnet minivan to haul with. The eBay 60cc kit for the PW and a bigger jet really woke that bike up, but the rest of the bike isn't really built for that much more abuse.
Wife is on her second Toyota sienna. Been in the minivan club for well over a decade now. Dad life!
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Last Braaap 4/23/2019 5:24am
4/23/2019 5:24am
Dear fellas.

The URL link made my day. The idea of carbon fibre parts on PW50 is mx version of famous aerodynamic test of a cow. Shouldn't MX be fun in the first place and shaving of grams and tenths of seconds second?

I also agree with people that the time on PW50 is too short. Better save the money for the SX65 and its monetary excursions.
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kage173
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kage173 4/23/2019 5:45am
4/23/2019 5:45am
peltier626 wrote:
Thanks guys. Y'all are probably right. I'm hoping to skip the ktm/husky/cobra 50's and go straight to the 65's. That's why i am considering a suspension...
Thanks guys. Y'all are probably right. I'm hoping to skip the ktm/husky/cobra 50's and go straight to the 65's. That's why i am considering a suspension upgrade to the p dub. I'm hoping to prolong it's use until the lil one's big enough for a 65. Which will most likely be a lowered kx65, reclused and toned down (washered and flywheel weighted) until he can handle and learn the bike.
Why do you want to go straight to the 65? Genuine question, not critical. When I was young, we didn't have the KTM 50s. I lost interest right during the transition between 50 and 65 and didn't return til my 20s. The 65 was too much power at that time.

I see the KTM 50s as a blessing. My son is 6 on a PW and will move to KTM soon, so I'm interested in other people's opinions.
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peltier626
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peltier626 4/23/2019 6:14am
4/23/2019 6:14am
peltier626 wrote:
Thanks guys. Y'all are probably right. I'm hoping to skip the ktm/husky/cobra 50's and go straight to the 65's. That's why i am considering a suspension...
Thanks guys. Y'all are probably right. I'm hoping to skip the ktm/husky/cobra 50's and go straight to the 65's. That's why i am considering a suspension upgrade to the p dub. I'm hoping to prolong it's use until the lil one's big enough for a 65. Which will most likely be a lowered kx65, reclused and toned down (washered and flywheel weighted) until he can handle and learn the bike.
kage173 wrote:
Why do you want to go straight to the 65? Genuine question, not critical. When I was young, we didn't have the KTM 50s. I lost...
Why do you want to go straight to the 65? Genuine question, not critical. When I was young, we didn't have the KTM 50s. I lost interest right during the transition between 50 and 65 and didn't return til my 20s. The 65 was too much power at that time.

I see the KTM 50s as a blessing. My son is 6 on a PW and will move to KTM soon, so I'm interested in other people's opinions.
Maybe my thought process is a little skewed. I don"t want to spend $4299+ on a bike that will last a span of possibly two years then on to a 65 anyways. The seat height on a ktm 50sx is 26 inches. The kx 65 retails for $3699 with a seat height of 29 inches and there are numerous options to achieve the same seat height of 26", lowering link, slid forks, shaved seat etc. There are plenty discussions on other forums on how to meter and smooth out the power with exhaust washers, flywheel weights slide block plus a recluse clutch, etc. I can get possibly 4-5 years from this bike with spending the same amount of money as the 50sx even after purchasing the mods, so for me it's all about economy. We don't race yet so i'm not concerned with classifications so it seems like the most cost effective option for us. But that's why i opened this topic so i can hear opinions, so keep um coming.
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peltier626
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peltier626 4/23/2019 6:16am
4/23/2019 6:16am
Last Braaap wrote:
Dear fellas. The URL link made my day. The idea of carbon fibre parts on PW50 is mx version of famous aerodynamic test of a cow...
Dear fellas.

The URL link made my day. The idea of carbon fibre parts on PW50 is mx version of famous aerodynamic test of a cow. Shouldn't MX be fun in the first place and shaving of grams and tenths of seconds second?

I also agree with people that the time on PW50 is too short. Better save the money for the SX65 and its monetary excursions.
Definitely not interested in the carbon fiber, any bling or non functional items. Just eyeballing the suspension upgrade.
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peltier626 4/23/2019 6:17am
4/23/2019 6:17am
mikec265 wrote:
Some of the 110cc chinese pitbikes are the same size as a Honda 50. We have a full manual with a clutch but it's too hard...
Some of the 110cc chinese pitbikes are the same size as a Honda 50. We have a full manual with a clutch but it's too hard for the little dudes to shift. There is a full auto one for about $500 shipped.The suspension is way better than a PW or Honda 50. Low investment and those little Honda copied 110s are only $200 for a complete new engine. If I were to do it all over I'd have bought a Chinese 110 auto instead of a used XR50.
Went with the pw50 instead of the Chinese route solely for resale value.
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mikec265 4/23/2019 6:41am
4/23/2019 6:41am
mikec265 wrote:
Some of the 110cc chinese pitbikes are the same size as a Honda 50. We have a full manual with a clutch but it's too hard...
Some of the 110cc chinese pitbikes are the same size as a Honda 50. We have a full manual with a clutch but it's too hard for the little dudes to shift. There is a full auto one for about $500 shipped.The suspension is way better than a PW or Honda 50. Low investment and those little Honda copied 110s are only $200 for a complete new engine. If I were to do it all over I'd have bought a Chinese 110 auto instead of a used XR50.
peltier626 wrote:
Went with the pw50 instead of the Chinese route solely for resale value.
I can see that, but those ching chongers are really worth checking out. Here's the full manual with a clutch They also come as a full automatic with hydraulic brakes and twice the suspension travel of a PW or Honda 50. For about $500 shipped to your doorstep you can't go wrong.
In my opinion and experience the Chinese 110 which is the same size as a Honda 50 is a great in between bike a soon as they can handle a 22 inch seat height.
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Squirrelings 4/23/2019 6:47am
4/23/2019 6:47am
mikec265 wrote:
I can see that, but those ching chongers are really worth checking out. Here's the full manual with a clutch They also come as a full...
I can see that, but those ching chongers are really worth checking out. Here's the full manual with a clutch They also come as a full automatic with hydraulic brakes and twice the suspension travel of a PW or Honda 50. For about $500 shipped to your doorstep you can't go wrong.
In my opinion and experience the Chinese 110 which is the same size as a Honda 50 is a great in between bike a soon as they can handle a 22 inch seat height.
That’s actually a pretty cool looking little bike for $500.
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mikec265 4/23/2019 7:53am
4/23/2019 7:53am
mikec265 wrote:
I can see that, but those ching chongers are really worth checking out. Here's the full manual with a clutch They also come as a full...
I can see that, but those ching chongers are really worth checking out. Here's the full manual with a clutch They also come as a full automatic with hydraulic brakes and twice the suspension travel of a PW or Honda 50. For about $500 shipped to your doorstep you can't go wrong.
In my opinion and experience the Chinese 110 which is the same size as a Honda 50 is a great in between bike a soon as they can handle a 22 inch seat height.
Squirrelings wrote:
That’s actually a pretty cool looking little bike for $500.
I bought it to teach kids how to use a clutch but the foot shifter is too hard for a 4 to 6 year old. Hindsight is 20/20 and I should have bought the same thing with the fully automatic transmission, e-start, and hydraulic brakes. It was nice enough that I bought a bigger wheeled 125 for myself.
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591MX 4/23/2019 8:45am
4/23/2019 8:45am
mikec265 wrote:
Some of the 110cc chinese pitbikes are the same size as a Honda 50. We have a full manual with a clutch but it's too hard...
Some of the 110cc chinese pitbikes are the same size as a Honda 50. We have a full manual with a clutch but it's too hard for the little dudes to shift. There is a full auto one for about $500 shipped.The suspension is way better than a PW or Honda 50. Low investment and those little Honda copied 110s are only $200 for a complete new engine. If I were to do it all over I'd have bought a Chinese 110 auto instead of a used XR50.
peltier626 wrote:
Went with the pw50 instead of the Chinese route solely for resale value.
mikec265 wrote:
I can see that, but those ching chongers are really worth checking out. Here's the full manual with a clutch They also come as a full...
I can see that, but those ching chongers are really worth checking out. Here's the full manual with a clutch They also come as a full automatic with hydraulic brakes and twice the suspension travel of a PW or Honda 50. For about $500 shipped to your doorstep you can't go wrong.
In my opinion and experience the Chinese 110 which is the same size as a Honda 50 is a great in between bike a soon as they can handle a 22 inch seat height.
That’s a pretty cool looking little bike. What kind specifically is it? Our oldest son will be too big for his Stacyc shortly and I like the idea of a reasonably priced automatic. Especially since he really has no interest in racing or tracks so I’m sure it’d be perfect for just cruising around our property.

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Smith922 4/23/2019 10:33am
4/23/2019 10:33am
If you are set on keeping the PW50 check out barrs competition they have a killer setup for the PW 50 motors and definitely suspension.
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Question 4/23/2019 11:06am
4/23/2019 11:06am Edited Date/Time 4/23/2019 11:07am
peltier626 wrote:
Thanks guys. Y'all are probably right. I'm hoping to skip the ktm/husky/cobra 50's and go straight to the 65's. That's why i am considering a suspension...
Thanks guys. Y'all are probably right. I'm hoping to skip the ktm/husky/cobra 50's and go straight to the 65's. That's why i am considering a suspension upgrade to the p dub. I'm hoping to prolong it's use until the lil one's big enough for a 65. Which will most likely be a lowered kx65, reclused and toned down (washered and flywheel weighted) until he can handle and learn the bike.
kage173 wrote:
Why do you want to go straight to the 65? Genuine question, not critical. When I was young, we didn't have the KTM 50s. I lost...
Why do you want to go straight to the 65? Genuine question, not critical. When I was young, we didn't have the KTM 50s. I lost interest right during the transition between 50 and 65 and didn't return til my 20s. The 65 was too much power at that time.

I see the KTM 50s as a blessing. My son is 6 on a PW and will move to KTM soon, so I'm interested in other people's opinions.
peltier626 wrote:
Maybe my thought process is a little skewed. I don"t want to spend $4299+ on a bike that will last a span of possibly two years...
Maybe my thought process is a little skewed. I don"t want to spend $4299+ on a bike that will last a span of possibly two years then on to a 65 anyways. The seat height on a ktm 50sx is 26 inches. The kx 65 retails for $3699 with a seat height of 29 inches and there are numerous options to achieve the same seat height of 26", lowering link, slid forks, shaved seat etc. There are plenty discussions on other forums on how to meter and smooth out the power with exhaust washers, flywheel weights slide block plus a recluse clutch, etc. I can get possibly 4-5 years from this bike with spending the same amount of money as the 50sx even after purchasing the mods, so for me it's all about economy. We don't race yet so i'm not concerned with classifications so it seems like the most cost effective option for us. But that's why i opened this topic so i can hear opinions, so keep um coming.
You may have not seen my previous post so here is a bit more info on the PW80. It will save you 1 to 3 more years of "expenses" and "maintenance time". The 80 PW is a fantastic bike for fun, to build speed and confidence, it won't scare him. An alternative I would look at too is the TTR. Maybe buy both if you can, to switch.



Example, sorry it is french so it is in euro, but it gives an idea of the good value of the parts. I really wonder why yamaha stopped producing them in 2006 (i didn't know before this thread).




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psg119
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psg119 4/23/2019 11:23am
4/23/2019 11:23am
Yeah I saw slip has his 7 yr old on a PW80 and it looks like he's loving it. I'd rather wait and throw a shock on that thing. haha.
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Question 4/23/2019 11:59am
4/23/2019 11:59am
psg119 wrote:
Yeah I saw slip has his 7 yr old on a PW80 and it looks like he's loving it. I'd rather wait and throw a shock...
Yeah I saw slip has his 7 yr old on a PW80 and it looks like he's loving it. I'd rather wait and throw a shock on that thing. haha.
The best is really to bring these minis to specifically built tracks (next to the mx track if long & technical enough or ... in gardens). Bumps, jumps, ruts, rocks and riders around on a normal mx track are not really for 3 to 7-8 years old riders anyway. Then they can get a better bike when they are around 7-8 (after riding already 4 years), fast enough to be in the "track flow" with big bikes and when they can jump 40-60ft table tops. Meanwhile from 3 to 7 it is also possible to get them on bmx to learn the best technique to jump or to soak them.
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kage173 4/23/2019 12:04pm
4/23/2019 12:04pm
peltier626 wrote:
Maybe my thought process is a little skewed. I don"t want to spend $4299+ on a bike that will last a span of possibly two years...
Maybe my thought process is a little skewed. I don"t want to spend $4299+ on a bike that will last a span of possibly two years then on to a 65 anyways. The seat height on a ktm 50sx is 26 inches. The kx 65 retails for $3699 with a seat height of 29 inches and there are numerous options to achieve the same seat height of 26", lowering link, slid forks, shaved seat etc. There are plenty discussions on other forums on how to meter and smooth out the power with exhaust washers, flywheel weights slide block plus a recluse clutch, etc. I can get possibly 4-5 years from this bike with spending the same amount of money as the 50sx even after purchasing the mods, so for me it's all about economy. We don't race yet so i'm not concerned with classifications so it seems like the most cost effective option for us. But that's why i opened this topic so i can hear opinions, so keep um coming.
Like you I'm very cost conscious and always looking for ideas.

My thought on the minibikes is that I buy them used, then sell them 2 years later. From buying it let's say $750 to $1,500 off as a 3-4 year old then selling for another $750 or $1,000 less, I'm really only paying a fee to use it for 2 years.

I don't really care about having the fastest bike or the latest stuff because my son's skill level is constantly developing so it's way more about his technique and confidence than some engineering on the bike.

I think you're fine on your strategy; just explaining how I look at the cost.
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kage173
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kage173 4/23/2019 2:16pm
4/23/2019 2:16pm
Question wrote:
You may have not seen my previous post so here is a bit more info on the PW80. It will save you 1 to 3 more...
You may have not seen my previous post so here is a bit more info on the PW80. It will save you 1 to 3 more years of "expenses" and "maintenance time". The 80 PW is a fantastic bike for fun, to build speed and confidence, it won't scare him. An alternative I would look at too is the TTR. Maybe buy both if you can, to switch.



Example, sorry it is french so it is in euro, but it gives an idea of the good value of the parts. I really wonder why yamaha stopped producing them in 2006 (i didn't know before this thread).




Never considered a PW 80 before, but it does make some sense. Goodness they're ugly though.

That review is very well done.
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rongi#401
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rongi#401 4/23/2019 2:35pm
4/23/2019 2:35pm
Falcon wrote:
The time is so short on a PW.... Even though that kit isn't a lot of money, I'd still save the money and put it toward...
The time is so short on a PW....

Even though that kit isn't a lot of money, I'd still save the money and put it toward a 65 when the time is right. That's just me, though.
I’d disagree a lot can be learned on a pw, my dad did suspension upgrade himself and I stayed on til I was way too big for it, kids learn how to ride a bike to its max and work lines for speed, instead of being scared to death of a cobra or 65
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Question 4/23/2019 2:53pm
4/23/2019 2:53pm Edited Date/Time 4/23/2019 2:55pm
Question wrote:
You may have not seen my previous post so here is a bit more info on the PW80. It will save you 1 to 3 more...
You may have not seen my previous post so here is a bit more info on the PW80. It will save you 1 to 3 more years of "expenses" and "maintenance time". The 80 PW is a fantastic bike for fun, to build speed and confidence, it won't scare him. An alternative I would look at too is the TTR. Maybe buy both if you can, to switch.



Example, sorry it is french so it is in euro, but it gives an idea of the good value of the parts. I really wonder why yamaha stopped producing them in 2006 (i didn't know before this thread).




kage173 wrote:
Never considered a PW 80 before, but it does make some sense. Goodness they're ugly though.

That review is very well done.
The pw 50 is overhyped : the 80 is the one Wink

Oh yes they are not the most sexy mini bikes lol, but very interesting to ride. With this geometry, you can go quite fast without being scared, if it is not too bumpy. It is not a bike for mx jumps too, maximum for small table tops. I would have a kid who wants to race, or in his 2nd year on that bike, and the time i think i would do a winter project, to try replace the front and the rear of the bike to update it with disks and upside down fork.

Long story short, I have some of my best memories on pw 80, as a kid of course but later on, when i was 16-17 ;

A supermoto rider in my region opened an indoor go kart ... without go karts, but many pw 80s, and plastic knee braces Wink Lots of evenings and week ends there were quite a few fast regional mx guys (i.e. 1 who became national champ in amateur or who raced at the sx of stade de france) coming in and we were just riding it at 105%, bar banging and putting the knee everywhere and even more trying not to crash in the big 200L plastic barrells around the track. Based on the fact that we never broke one in months of abuse is really a proof of "bullet proof". And I still have my plastic trophy for 1st place of our 3 hours race Wink
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camstop22 4/23/2019 2:56pm
4/23/2019 2:56pm
If he is not ready to shift,Berg racing has an auto clutch for the kx65. You just put it in 3rd gear and remove the shifter.
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kage173
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kage173 4/23/2019 3:49pm
4/23/2019 3:49pm
Question wrote:
The pw 50 is overhyped : the 80 is the one ;) Oh yes they are not the most sexy mini bikes lol, but very interesting...
The pw 50 is overhyped : the 80 is the one Wink

Oh yes they are not the most sexy mini bikes lol, but very interesting to ride. With this geometry, you can go quite fast without being scared, if it is not too bumpy. It is not a bike for mx jumps too, maximum for small table tops. I would have a kid who wants to race, or in his 2nd year on that bike, and the time i think i would do a winter project, to try replace the front and the rear of the bike to update it with disks and upside down fork.

Long story short, I have some of my best memories on pw 80, as a kid of course but later on, when i was 16-17 ;

A supermoto rider in my region opened an indoor go kart ... without go karts, but many pw 80s, and plastic knee braces Wink Lots of evenings and week ends there were quite a few fast regional mx guys (i.e. 1 who became national champ in amateur or who raced at the sx of stade de france) coming in and we were just riding it at 105%, bar banging and putting the knee everywhere and even more trying not to crash in the big 200L plastic barrells around the track. Based on the fact that we never broke one in months of abuse is really a proof of "bullet proof". And I still have my plastic trophy for 1st place of our 3 hours race Wink
Sounds like a blast!
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mikec265 4/23/2019 4:14pm
4/23/2019 4:14pm
peltier626 wrote:
Went with the pw50 instead of the Chinese route solely for resale value.
mikec265 wrote:
I can see that, but those ching chongers are really worth checking out. Here's the full manual with a clutch They also come as a full...
I can see that, but those ching chongers are really worth checking out. Here's the full manual with a clutch They also come as a full automatic with hydraulic brakes and twice the suspension travel of a PW or Honda 50. For about $500 shipped to your doorstep you can't go wrong.
In my opinion and experience the Chinese 110 which is the same size as a Honda 50 is a great in between bike a soon as they can handle a 22 inch seat height.
591MX wrote:
That’s a pretty cool looking little bike. What kind specifically is it? Our oldest son will be too big for his Stacyc shortly and I like...
That’s a pretty cool looking little bike. What kind specifically is it? Our oldest son will be too big for his Stacyc shortly and I like the idea of a reasonably priced automatic. Especially since he really has no interest in racing or tracks so I’m sure it’d be perfect for just cruising around our property.
This one I bought is an X-Pro https://www.powersportsmax.com/product_info.php/cPath/33_46/products_id…

Here's a full auto https://www.powersportsmax.com/product_info.php/cPath/33_46/products_id…

I wouldn't worry about the brand. I think they all use pretty much the same parts. My pitbike is a Tao, and looks like it came off the same assembly line as my kids X-Pro. A lot of the parts are even the same or similar to my friends SSR.

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