Over training and MX

WORCSRacer
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Edited Date/Time 1/26/2012 10:34pm
I was reading an article on another site about how Andrew Short had to go done to Florida for testing to see if they could indentify what is wrong with him and why have his result been slipping and why doesn't he feel well....

I was struck by a common denominator with other MX'er that have had simular problems i.e. Johnny O'Mara, Chad Reed. It's their trainer, Jeff Spencer. All these riders have been trained by him and they all look the same overly thin, tired and haven't felt well during the race season. They also have had in common the "he trains so hard, he's so fit I just don't understand" comments too. Classic symptoms of overtraining and it just seems to me that Spencer is a chronic over trainer of his riders.
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newmann
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8/12/2009 7:51am
Spencer has been at this an awful long time. Seems he'd be the first to identify something along those lines. Just sayin'..........
Cygnus
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8/12/2009 7:54am
Heart rate monitors are ruining the sport of MX.
WORCSRacer
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8/12/2009 8:00am Edited Date/Time 8/12/2009 8:05am
newmann wrote:
Spencer has been at this an awful long time. Seems he'd be the first to identify something along those lines. Just sayin'..........
I would expect him to know too but you can't help but wonder when his elite riders keep having these issues. Maybe you just hear more about his riders.
UpTiTe
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8/12/2009 8:06am
He also trained Stanton, Lance that 10 speed guy, Hanson, Bailey and Ricky Johnson.

Omaras problems came long after he trained with Spencer.

The Shop

C3H6O3
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8/12/2009 8:07am
Cygnus wrote:
Heart rate monitors are ruining the sport of MX.
Interesting theory on Spencer and an interesting comment on HR monitors. Could you elaborate, Cygnus?
GuyB
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8/12/2009 8:08am
There's a big different between over training, and overtraining.
WORCSRacer
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8/12/2009 8:12am Edited Date/Time 8/12/2009 8:14am
GuyB wrote:
There's a big different between over training, and overtraining.
Just to be clear GuyB, I am not bagging Spencer just commenting on the coincidence. BTW if I could edit that reference line I would...
SH_105
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8/12/2009 8:18am
Chad hasnt trained with Spencer for nearly 2 or 3 years now. I remember when Doug Henry got super sick one year it was related to water that he was drinking from state to state that gave him a viral infection........


SH 32
dirthead1
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8/12/2009 9:25am
I liked motocross more when the riders really didn't "train", but free rode all the time and got loaded on recreational stuff and booze. Things just aren't the same any more and they have turned for the worse.

Jason Lawrence is the only one left of the old breed and he doesn't fly under the radar well enough to get away with it. Bummer
CamP
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8/12/2009 9:39am
Blake Wharton's trainer is a buddy of mine and we were discussing this just a few weeks ago. His theory is that a lot of the illness that racers suffer may be traced to contaminated water used on tracks, combined with bacteria and fungus that naturally occurs in soil. Racers ingest a lot of dirt when they race and train and this seems like a real possibility.
C3H6O3
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8/12/2009 9:57am
CamP wrote:
Blake Wharton's trainer is a buddy of mine and we were discussing this just a few weeks ago. His theory is that a lot of the...
Blake Wharton's trainer is a buddy of mine and we were discussing this just a few weeks ago. His theory is that a lot of the illness that racers suffer may be traced to contaminated water used on tracks, combined with bacteria and fungus that naturally occurs in soil. Racers ingest a lot of dirt when they race and train and this seems like a real possibility.
If that were the case wouldn't you expect a rash of illness at all levels of MX? What we're seeing is compromised immune systems due to over-training/under-recovering in athletes that are pushing the bounds of training.
CamP
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8/12/2009 10:11am Edited Date/Time 8/12/2009 10:13am
C3H6O3 wrote:
If that were the case wouldn't you expect a rash of illness at all levels of MX? What we're seeing is compromised immune systems due to...
If that were the case wouldn't you expect a rash of illness at all levels of MX? What we're seeing is compromised immune systems due to over-training/under-recovering in athletes that are pushing the bounds of training.
I don't think so. A pro has higher exposure levels because of the extended duration of the time spent on the track and a pro still has to ride even if they are feeling bad. Not everyone gets sick because, like allergies, some people are more sensitive than others, but amateurs have the luxury of not riding if that don't feel well. Pros are expected to push through it because they are paid to ride. Like I said, it's just a theory but it may very well be the root of the problem.
Camp332
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8/12/2009 10:16am
CamP wrote:
Blake Wharton's trainer is a buddy of mine and we were discussing this just a few weeks ago. His theory is that a lot of the...
Blake Wharton's trainer is a buddy of mine and we were discussing this just a few weeks ago. His theory is that a lot of the illness that racers suffer may be traced to contaminated water used on tracks, combined with bacteria and fungus that naturally occurs in soil. Racers ingest a lot of dirt when they race and train and this seems like a real possibility.
C3H6O3 wrote:
If that were the case wouldn't you expect a rash of illness at all levels of MX? What we're seeing is compromised immune systems due to...
If that were the case wouldn't you expect a rash of illness at all levels of MX? What we're seeing is compromised immune systems due to over-training/under-recovering in athletes that are pushing the bounds of training.
Hey Noob,
STFU!!!

WORCSRacer
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8/12/2009 10:17am
SH_105 wrote:
Chad hasnt trained with Spencer for nearly 2 or 3 years now. I remember when Doug Henry got super sick one year it was related to...
Chad hasnt trained with Spencer for nearly 2 or 3 years now. I remember when Doug Henry got super sick one year it was related to water that he was drinking from state to state that gave him a viral infection........


SH 32
Kinda my point Sean. From what i was told (second hand info) the chronic fatigue and the issue of over training was part of the reason they aren't together anymore.

IMO you can't train like a triathlete and race like a motocrosser.
-eagle-
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8/12/2009 10:18am
dirthead1 wrote:
I liked motocross more when the riders really didn't "train", but free rode all the time and got loaded on recreational stuff and booze. Things just...
I liked motocross more when the riders really didn't "train", but free rode all the time and got loaded on recreational stuff and booze. Things just aren't the same any more and they have turned for the worse.

Jason Lawrence is the only one left of the old breed and he doesn't fly under the radar well enough to get away with it. Bummer
I will forever have a sweet spot for the middle 90's and the riders involved in it.
JP
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8/12/2009 10:20am
CamP wrote:
Blake Wharton's trainer is a buddy of mine and we were discussing this just a few weeks ago. His theory is that a lot of the...
Blake Wharton's trainer is a buddy of mine and we were discussing this just a few weeks ago. His theory is that a lot of the illness that racers suffer may be traced to contaminated water used on tracks, combined with bacteria and fungus that naturally occurs in soil. Racers ingest a lot of dirt when they race and train and this seems like a real possibility.
I would agree with this. I took a footpeg to the shin at a local track and ended up in the ER 4 days later w/ massive infection caused by some weird bacteria. I would imagine ingesting the dirt would have some sort of similar consequences.
C3H6O3
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8/12/2009 10:22am
CamP wrote:
I don't think so. A pro has higher exposure levels because of the extended duration of the time spent on the track and a pro still...
I don't think so. A pro has higher exposure levels because of the extended duration of the time spent on the track and a pro still has to ride even if they are feeling bad. Not everyone gets sick because, like allergies, some people are more sensitive than others, but amateurs have the luxury of not riding if that don't feel well. Pros are expected to push through it because they are paid to ride. Like I said, it's just a theory but it may very well be the root of the problem.
While I don't discount your theory on exposure, what you describe - having to ride when sick/tired - fits better with my theory of over-training, in my opinion.
CamP
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8/12/2009 10:23am
CamP wrote:
I don't think so. A pro has higher exposure levels because of the extended duration of the time spent on the track and a pro still...
I don't think so. A pro has higher exposure levels because of the extended duration of the time spent on the track and a pro still has to ride even if they are feeling bad. Not everyone gets sick because, like allergies, some people are more sensitive than others, but amateurs have the luxury of not riding if that don't feel well. Pros are expected to push through it because they are paid to ride. Like I said, it's just a theory but it may very well be the root of the problem.
C3H6O3 wrote:
While I don't discount your theory on exposure, what you describe - having to ride when sick/tired - fits better with my theory of over-training, in...
While I don't discount your theory on exposure, what you describe - having to ride when sick/tired - fits better with my theory of over-training, in my opinion.
It may be a combination of the two.
C3H6O3
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8/12/2009 10:26am
CamP wrote:
It may be a combination of the two.
Absolutely.
Cygnus
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8/12/2009 10:41am
http://human-infections.suite101.com/article.cfm/protozoan_parasites_in…


Protozoan Parasites in Dirt
Amoebae, Flagellates, Ciliates, and Coccidia
© Rosemary Drisdelle

Nov 7, 2007

Many protozoan parasites have a hardy stage that survives for long periods in soil and water. Others normally thrive and multiply in the environment.

Most people have heard the common wisdom that you can catch worms from eating dirt—it’s true that a number of parasitic worms infect humans through accidental ingestion of contaminated soil—but these are not the only parasites that may be present. Protozoan parasites, tiny single celled organisms, can remain infective for long periods in soil.

How do Protozoan Parasites Get Into Soil?

Intestinal protozoan parasites are passed in feces. When an infected human or animal defecates on the ground, millions of parasites contaminate soil. Many protozoan parasites have a tough cyst stage—a stage that isn’t actively growing or multiplying, but which can survive and remain infective in the environment until it can infect a new host. A few of the protozoan parasites that infect humans are actually environmental species—species that normally live in soil or water and only accidentally cause disease.

People Eat a Lot of Dirt

We don’t think we’re eating dirt but, actually, we all eat more than we realize. Not only do we often put dirty fingers and objects in our mouths (children are particularly likely to do this), but we eat particles of dirt on raw fruit and vegetables. Tiny protozoan cysts, 5 to 100 one-thousandths of a millimetre wide, are invisible to us—there might be hundreds of them on one dirty finger. While many protozoans are better known for spreading via dirty water, human excrement is sometimes used as fertilizer, and dirty water is used to water crops—soil can certainly be a source of infection.

Protozoan Parasites in Dirt

The parasitic protozoa that spread through soil and water are divided up into groups—amoebae, flagellates, ciliates, and coccidia:

Amoebae: The most common of the intestinal amoebae that cause disease is Entamoeba histolytica, the agent of amoebic dysentery. This dangerous parasite not only causes severe diarrhea but can cause abscesses in the intestine, liver, and other organs. Best known for contaminating water supplies, E. histolytica can easily contaminate food crops as well. An environmental amoeba, Acanthamoeba spp., which is usually found in water, decaying organic matter, soil, and sewage, is of particular interest to contact lens wearers—unfortunately, it’s capable of multiplying in a human eye cornea and causing vision destroying infection.
Flagellates: Found in surface waters all over the Earth and spread in the feces of both humans and animals, Giardia lamblia is the most infamous of the intestinal flagellates that cause disease.
Ciliates: Only one ciliate parasitizes humans. It’s Balantidium coli, a large protozoan associated with pigs. Contact with pig feces or soil contaminated with pig feces spreads this parasite, which can cause severe diarrhea and intestinal abscesses.
Coccidia: A number of coccidia cause parasitic disease in humans. Toxoplasma gondii contaminates the soil world wide and infects all warm blooded vertebrates. Cyclospora cayetanensis has been associated with contaminated fruits and vegetables, and Cryptosporidium parvum is found in surface waters everywhere.
Avoid Protozoan Parasites in Dirt

It’s impossible to completely protect yourself from microscopic intestinal parasites, but you can lessen your chances of ingesting them:


Read more: http://human-infections.suite101.com/article.cfm/protozoan_parasites_in…
twizzler
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8/12/2009 10:47am
Take into consideration that the tracks of nowadays are grooming and watering moreso than ever before. Sand from who knows where, saw dust from who knows where and water from who knows where are being added to the tracks. Several years ago this type of track maintenence was not taking place to the level it is now. Makes one wonder.
PaleBlue
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8/12/2009 10:59am Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 1:29am
Cygnus your post sounds scary! But surely most on the bacteria etc. we ingest in dirt during our lives is not harmful but benificial. The accepted theory about the explosion of allegies around the world is that we are leading lives that are too far removed from dirt and bacteria.

I for one, am doing my best to reverse this trend Wink
Camp332
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8/12/2009 11:23am
PaleBlue wrote:
Cygnus your post sounds scary! But surely most on the bacteria etc. we ingest in dirt during our lives is not harmful but benificial. The accepted...
Cygnus your post sounds scary! But surely most on the bacteria etc. we ingest in dirt during our lives is not harmful but benificial. The accepted theory about the explosion of allegies around the world is that we are leading lives that are too far removed from dirt and bacteria.

I for one, am doing my best to reverse this trend Wink
Ride MX in New Jersey, and you will forever be immunized to any other possible dirt bacteria in the rest of the world. That's how we roll!
viking24
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8/12/2009 11:34am
CamP wrote:
Blake Wharton's trainer is a buddy of mine and we were discussing this just a few weeks ago. His theory is that a lot of the...
Blake Wharton's trainer is a buddy of mine and we were discussing this just a few weeks ago. His theory is that a lot of the illness that racers suffer may be traced to contaminated water used on tracks, combined with bacteria and fungus that naturally occurs in soil. Racers ingest a lot of dirt when they race and train and this seems like a real possibility.
JP wrote:
I would agree with this. I took a footpeg to the shin at a local track and ended up in the ER 4 days later w/...
I would agree with this. I took a footpeg to the shin at a local track and ended up in the ER 4 days later w/ massive infection caused by some weird bacteria. I would imagine ingesting the dirt would have some sort of similar consequences.
I gashed up my elbow pretty good about 12 years ago. The track was loaded with wood pulp and crap and for years I would get these nasty cysts that would erupt as my body was expelling the wood. I always wondered what that stuff would do if ingested on a regular basis.
txmxer
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8/12/2009 12:52pm
I've been overtraining for beerfest...
andymoto
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8/12/2009 8:07pm
WORCSRacer wrote:
Kinda my point Sean. From what i was told (second hand info) the chronic fatigue and the issue of over training was part of the reason...
Kinda my point Sean. From what i was told (second hand info) the chronic fatigue and the issue of over training was part of the reason they aren't together anymore.

IMO you can't train like a triathlete and race like a motocrosser.
I used the '80s paperback Spencer published Total Training for MX for my guidance.

I don't need much to get into my training specifics, but for many years it was 3-4 hours/day along with practice on the bike. Most of workouts were endurance based; running 50-60 miles/wk, interval training, etc.

I look back now that I didn't eat nearly enough for the workouts I did. I did the carbo loading bit a few days prior to races or running/cycling races and toward the end, I just wore out. Had only 3% bodyfat that my doc said was unhealthy, especially if I had a catastrophic illness.

Overtraining and improper nutrition I know too late can damage your vital organs; especially your heart and it's electrical circuitry.

So true, you can't train like a bi/triathlete and race like a MX'er.

Wished I knew then what I know now....sounds familiar.

WORCSRacer
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8/12/2009 8:50pm
WORCSRacer wrote:
Kinda my point Sean. From what i was told (second hand info) the chronic fatigue and the issue of over training was part of the reason...
Kinda my point Sean. From what i was told (second hand info) the chronic fatigue and the issue of over training was part of the reason they aren't together anymore.

IMO you can't train like a triathlete and race like a motocrosser.
andymoto wrote:
I used the '80s paperback Spencer published Total Training for MX for my guidance. I don't need much to get into my training specifics, but for...
I used the '80s paperback Spencer published Total Training for MX for my guidance.

I don't need much to get into my training specifics, but for many years it was 3-4 hours/day along with practice on the bike. Most of workouts were endurance based; running 50-60 miles/wk, interval training, etc.

I look back now that I didn't eat nearly enough for the workouts I did. I did the carbo loading bit a few days prior to races or running/cycling races and toward the end, I just wore out. Had only 3% bodyfat that my doc said was unhealthy, especially if I had a catastrophic illness.

Overtraining and improper nutrition I know too late can damage your vital organs; especially your heart and it's electrical circuitry.

So true, you can't train like a bi/triathlete and race like a MX'er.

Wished I knew then what I know now....sounds familiar.

3% bodyfat is ridiculously unhealthy for anyone.
crowe176
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8/12/2009 8:56pm
txmxer wrote:
I've been overtraining for beerfest...
Artie Lange is my trainer this year. He's the Aldon Baker of beerfest. Just sayin, you're fuct.
PaleBlue
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8/13/2009 12:53am Edited Date/Time 8/13/2009 12:53am
CamP wrote:
Blake Wharton's trainer is a buddy of mine and we were discussing this just a few weeks ago. His theory is that a lot of the...
Blake Wharton's trainer is a buddy of mine and we were discussing this just a few weeks ago. His theory is that a lot of the illness that racers suffer may be traced to contaminated water used on tracks, combined with bacteria and fungus that naturally occurs in soil. Racers ingest a lot of dirt when they race and train and this seems like a real possibility.
JP wrote:
I would agree with this. I took a footpeg to the shin at a local track and ended up in the ER 4 days later w/...
I would agree with this. I took a footpeg to the shin at a local track and ended up in the ER 4 days later w/ massive infection caused by some weird bacteria. I would imagine ingesting the dirt would have some sort of similar consequences.
viking24 wrote:
I gashed up my elbow pretty good about 12 years ago. The track was loaded with wood pulp and crap and for years I would get...
I gashed up my elbow pretty good about 12 years ago. The track was loaded with wood pulp and crap and for years I would get these nasty cysts that would erupt as my body was expelling the wood. I always wondered what that stuff would do if ingested on a regular basis.
The effect of Bacteria ingested through your gut and that of being shot direct into your system through breaks in the skin are WAY different!

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