Our strategy has to change

machine
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machine
Edited Date/Time 9/30/2014 7:27am
The consistently wins the day routine isn't working anymore. We have to ride like they are riding to win again (Like Tomac in the 2nd moto). Their game has changed and we need to adapt. Those GP riders ride like it's their last race and so do we,if we want that trophy back again. We also need to start leaving our tracks ungroomed for the races, so we adapt to their style of tracks.

It's freakin BS when 10th place guy Fredrick Noreen comes in ahead of Tomac in moto 1....frankly it's damn embarrassing. We couldn't get a damn start all day, what's up with that?

THIS IS NOT A TALENT ISSUE, I still believe that we have the talent to win easily, we just need to lay it on the line.

Of course this is just opinion, if anyone else has any other ideas, i'm open to it.. TongueSmile
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kongols
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kongols 9/28/2014 12:33pm
9/28/2014 12:33pm
They were grooming track after every moto. Waves, faces of the jumps, all the rough parts.
ChrisB10
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ChrisB10 9/28/2014 12:33pm
9/28/2014 12:33pm
Swap Canard and Dungey. That's all the Strategy you need. Dungey is a longevity consistency rider. Doesn't cut it when the world's best are going balls out for 2 motos.
Samdanny576 9/28/2014 12:34pm
9/28/2014 12:34pm
The strategy is to send the best racers we have to the event.
We sent the number 2 450 guy in the American series.
The champion of the 250 class.
And the best third choice for the second 450 ride.

Riders will have bad motos and hindsight is always 20/20.
rompin87
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rompin87 9/28/2014 12:43pm
9/28/2014 12:43pm
Maybe they just need a bit more 'intensity' in the early laps instead of settling in to a steady pace like them Euros do Whistling

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machine
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machine 9/28/2014 12:48pm
9/28/2014 12:48pm
rompin87 wrote:
Maybe they just need a bit more 'intensity' in the early laps instead of settling in to a steady pace like them Euros do Whistling
I know your being sarcastic, but I agree...we need to learn from this. It also seemed like we got pushed around a bit trying to be too conservative.
eightbitmotocrosser 9/28/2014 12:48pm
9/28/2014 12:48pm
machine wrote:
The consistently wins the day routine isn't working anymore. We have to ride like they are riding to win again (Like Tomac in the 2nd moto)...
The consistently wins the day routine isn't working anymore. We have to ride like they are riding to win again (Like Tomac in the 2nd moto). Their game has changed and we need to adapt. Those GP riders ride like it's their last race and so do we,if we want that trophy back again. We also need to start leaving our tracks ungroomed for the races, so we adapt to their style of tracks.

It's freakin BS when 10th place guy Fredrick Noreen comes in ahead of Tomac in moto 1....frankly it's damn embarrassing. We couldn't get a damn start all day, what's up with that?

THIS IS NOT A TALENT ISSUE, I still believe that we have the talent to win easily, we just need to lay it on the line.

Of course this is just opinion, if anyone else has any other ideas, i'm open to it.. TongueSmile
It's a track issue. The US tracks are SX style tracks now that have the same types of jumps from track to track. Throw in supercross which used to refine the riders skill, but are now much just a series of sections to jump over, turn a corner and then repeat. I've no doubt the tracks have been refined to look good for TV which in the end has hurt our riders' ability on GP style tracks which offer more diversity.

Time to face the facts that the US riders are no longer the fastest outdoor riders in the world. The tides have turned.
eightbitmotocrosser 9/28/2014 12:50pm
9/28/2014 12:50pm
rompin87 wrote:
Maybe they just need a bit more 'intensity' in the early laps instead of settling in to a steady pace like them Euros do Whistling
Bring your winners over to a SX track and then let's see your little whistle face.
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SquidBro 9/28/2014 12:52pm
9/28/2014 12:52pm
Our strategy most definitely has to change, we now need to accept that the Euros have got game and the days of team USA turning up expecting to win are gone. Those Frenchies sure want some and so do their counterparts.
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prozach 9/28/2014 12:52pm
9/28/2014 12:52pm
machine wrote:
The consistently wins the day routine isn't working anymore. We have to ride like they are riding to win again (Like Tomac in the 2nd moto)...
The consistently wins the day routine isn't working anymore. We have to ride like they are riding to win again (Like Tomac in the 2nd moto). Their game has changed and we need to adapt. Those GP riders ride like it's their last race and so do we,if we want that trophy back again. We also need to start leaving our tracks ungroomed for the races, so we adapt to their style of tracks.

It's freakin BS when 10th place guy Fredrick Noreen comes in ahead of Tomac in moto 1....frankly it's damn embarrassing. We couldn't get a damn start all day, what's up with that?

THIS IS NOT A TALENT ISSUE, I still believe that we have the talent to win easily, we just need to lay it on the line.

Of course this is just opinion, if anyone else has any other ideas, i'm open to it.. TongueSmile
eightbitmotocrosser wrote:
It's a track issue. The US tracks are SX style tracks now that have the same types of jumps from track to track. Throw in supercross...
It's a track issue. The US tracks are SX style tracks now that have the same types of jumps from track to track. Throw in supercross which used to refine the riders skill, but are now much just a series of sections to jump over, turn a corner and then repeat. I've no doubt the tracks have been refined to look good for TV which in the end has hurt our riders' ability on GP style tracks which offer more diversity.

Time to face the facts that the US riders are no longer the fastest outdoor riders in the world. The tides have turned.
Little to do with tracks. If it was then why was tomac by far the fastest of the day in the last moto. And dungey got a second? It is the ride conservative mentality. That is what needs to change.
DonM
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DonM 9/28/2014 12:54pm
9/28/2014 12:54pm
Reed said it best, the GP riders flow more as the US riders go as fast as they can down the straights u-turn and do it again.
Samdanny576 9/28/2014 12:54pm
9/28/2014 12:54pm
eightbitmotocrosser wrote:
It's a track issue. The US tracks are SX style tracks now that have the same types of jumps from track to track. Throw in supercross...
It's a track issue. The US tracks are SX style tracks now that have the same types of jumps from track to track. Throw in supercross which used to refine the riders skill, but are now much just a series of sections to jump over, turn a corner and then repeat. I've no doubt the tracks have been refined to look good for TV which in the end has hurt our riders' ability on GP style tracks which offer more diversity.

Time to face the facts that the US riders are no longer the fastest outdoor riders in the world. The tides have turned.
Tomac went from last to third.
How did our tracks hurt his ability to do so?
SlowMoFo
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SlowMoFo 9/28/2014 12:55pm
9/28/2014 12:55pm
We have been very lucky in the past and won when we should've lost. We have the right riders and team strategy, luck has not been in our side lately and the rest of the field has definitely stepped it up. We can't make mistakes and win anymore, it's that simple!
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mark_swart 9/28/2014 12:58pm
9/28/2014 12:58pm
rompin87 wrote:
Maybe they just need a bit more 'intensity' in the early laps instead of settling in to a steady pace like them Euros do Whistling
You know, after watching most all of the GP's I was convinced that the GP guys do ride conservatively the first few laps and the AMA guys. But MXdN left me puzzled. Those guys looked like different riders out there! Credit where credit is due to the GP guys, Team USA was not what I expected.
What I'm trying to figure out... if it's just a TV thing... but I swear the AMA guys look faster in the opening laps during our nationals. Maybe it's just because they know the AMA tracks so well.
Kartwheel84c 9/28/2014 12:58pm
9/28/2014 12:58pm Edited Date/Time 9/28/2014 1:07pm
We need a different strategy in the sense that we need to send the best 3 guys, no matter what class they ride in AMA. IF the 250 champ is the best 250 guy, fine, but if not someone else needs to step down like AC222 did. This is absolutely NO disrespect to J-Mart, kid rode with heart after breaking his toes, but lets be unemotional about it, does anyone really think he would be faster than Tomac or Canard or even Barcia if they stepped down to the 250? Thats the way we used to do it, in '86 we didnt send reigning 125 champ Micky Dymond, we sent the O'Show, why? Because he was the better rider.
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wagonmaster 9/28/2014 12:59pm
9/28/2014 12:59pm
Any way you look at it I think we need to get at least a couple good sand tracks back on our national series it would help our guys and maybe get some more euro's to come and race some of our race's
rompin87
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rompin87 9/28/2014 12:59pm
9/28/2014 12:59pm
rompin87 wrote:
Maybe they just need a bit more 'intensity' in the early laps instead of settling in to a steady pace like them Euros do Whistling
machine wrote:
I know your being sarcastic, but I agree...we need to learn from this. It also seemed like we got pushed around a bit trying to be...
I know your being sarcastic, but I agree...we need to learn from this. It also seemed like we got pushed around a bit trying to be too conservative.
Ha yeah of course I am Tongue
Tomac showed us all what intensity an speed was all about in that last moto.
Love that kids attitude he's a never say die rider.
machine
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machine 9/28/2014 1:01pm
9/28/2014 1:01pm
Kartwheel84c wrote:
We need a different strategy in the sense that we need to send the best 3 guys, no matter what class they ride in AMA. IF...
We need a different strategy in the sense that we need to send the best 3 guys, no matter what class they ride in AMA. IF the 250 champ is the best 250 guy, fine, but if not someone else needs to step down like AC222 did. This is absolutely NO disrespect to J-Mart, kid rode with heart after breaking his toes, but lets be unemotional about it, does anyone really think he would be faster than Tomac or Canard or even Barcia if they stepped down to the 250? Thats the way we used to do it, in '86 we didnt send reigning 125 champ Micky Dymond, we sent the O'Show, why? Because he was the better rider.
hmmm..interesting..maybe so..

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jbomx363
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jbomx363 9/28/2014 1:01pm
9/28/2014 1:01pm
One off race.If this was run week in and week out...USA would be way ahead.

USA couldn't get a start..Martin hurt..bot riders down in last moto....all freaky things except for the poor starts....otherwise..who knows how it would shake out..but believe USA would of been on top.


Congrats to France!

Talent wise..USA is still ahead.
SquidBro
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SquidBro 9/28/2014 1:01pm
9/28/2014 1:01pm
Kartwheel84c wrote:
We need a different strategy in the sense that we need to send the best 3 guys, no matter what class they ride in AMA. IF...
We need a different strategy in the sense that we need to send the best 3 guys, no matter what class they ride in AMA. IF the 250 champ is the best 250 guy, fine, but if not someone else needs to step down like AC222 did. This is absolutely NO disrespect to J-Mart, kid rode with heart after breaking his toes, but lets be unemotional about it, does anyone really think he would be faster than Tomac or Canard or even Barcia if they stepped down to the 250? Thats the way we used to do it, in '86 we didnt send reigning 125 champ Micky Dymond, we sent the O'Show, why? Because he was the better rider.
This.
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Grieby54 9/28/2014 1:01pm
9/28/2014 1:01pm
We need to stop riding like this race is ours to lose. The way Tomac rode in Moto 3 is what these guys should do every MOTO and that's what every other country is doing. They feel like underdogs coming into the race so they all lay it on the line every lap. Our boys ride like they're just trying to get across the line without crashing (until Tomac realised he had to save the team in Moto 3).
machine
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machine 9/28/2014 1:02pm
9/28/2014 1:02pm
Grieby54 wrote:
We need to stop riding like this race is ours to lose. The way Tomac rode in Moto 3 is what these guys should do every...
We need to stop riding like this race is ours to lose. The way Tomac rode in Moto 3 is what these guys should do every MOTO and that's what every other country is doing. They feel like underdogs coming into the race so they all lay it on the line every lap. Our boys ride like they're just trying to get across the line without crashing (until Tomac realised he had to save the team in Moto 3).
yep...
eightbitmotocrosser 9/28/2014 1:05pm
9/28/2014 1:05pm
prozach wrote:
Little to do with tracks. If it was then why was tomac by far the fastest of the day in the last moto. And dungey got...
Little to do with tracks. If it was then why was tomac by far the fastest of the day in the last moto. And dungey got a second? It is the ride conservative mentality. That is what needs to change.
Tomac did that because he's fast. But the tracks are also out of their comfort zone and much different than what they are use to. Look at the MXoN at Lommel for a shining example of what I'm talking about. Our riders are use to certain types of tracks and it has hindered their overall progress. This last track was more US style but even at that, not all the top GP guys were there and the US still lost.
Kartwheel84c 9/28/2014 1:05pm
9/28/2014 1:05pm
I think the track issue is way overblown, last year Tomac was the fastest on the track and was running AC222 down before the "Superman" crash. This year he was again the fastest rider on the track coming back from a 1st turn crash. The issue is the GP riders are even with us now and we cant send a team to the Des Nations expecting to win unless its our very best 3 riders. I know there were a lot of other countries that couldnt send their best riders, Herlings, Roczen, etc, but where do you think the US team would have finished with, say, RV, Tomac and JS7?
rompin87
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rompin87 9/28/2014 1:06pm
9/28/2014 1:06pm
rompin87 wrote:
Maybe they just need a bit more 'intensity' in the early laps instead of settling in to a steady pace like them Euros do Whistling
eightbitmotocrosser wrote:
Bring your winners over to a SX track and then let's see your little whistle face.
My winners finished on the same points as yours did. Shame really as I felt we could have got on the box but that's motocross, life goes on.
eightbitmotocrosser 9/28/2014 1:06pm
9/28/2014 1:06pm
DonM wrote:
Reed said it best, the GP riders flow more as the US riders go as fast as they can down the straights u-turn and do it...
Reed said it best, the GP riders flow more as the US riders go as fast as they can down the straights u-turn and do it again.
Which I think is a symptom of the US style tracks and SX.
machine
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machine 9/28/2014 1:07pm
9/28/2014 1:07pm
Kartwheel84c wrote:
I think the track issue is way overblown, last year Tomac was the fastest on the track and was running AC222 down before the "Superman" crash...
I think the track issue is way overblown, last year Tomac was the fastest on the track and was running AC222 down before the "Superman" crash. This year he was again the fastest rider on the track coming back from a 1st turn crash. The issue is the GP riders are even with us now and we cant send a team to the Des Nations expecting to win unless its our very best 3 riders. I know there were a lot of other countries that couldnt send their best riders, Herlings, Roczen, etc, but where do you think the US team would have finished with, say, RV, Tomac and JS7?
Remember though, it's voluntary, so some might choose not to go...
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Kawi15 9/28/2014 1:09pm
9/28/2014 1:09pm
The US riders were turning lap times very similar to the GP riders. I don't believe its because the US riders don't have the speed or talent or ability to win. I think with each rider there were times when they were charging and moving forward, and times when they were just following as if they were getting arm pump or something. If you look at the French, Brits and other GP team that took second, they all had decent starts all weekend. The US team didn't. Dungey and JMart each had good starts in the 1st moto, but qualifying, the second and last moto their starts were horrible. They put themselves behind from the start on a new track to them, that was very hard to pass because to get out of the main line was a lot slower and one had to be a lot faster out of the main line to pass. Paulin and Horebeek and those other 2 didn't have to fight it a lot because they got consistent top 10 starts where the US riders didn't and one might argue that Gate pic had a play in that. That is my opinion on the matter anyways.
Kartwheel84c 9/28/2014 1:12pm
9/28/2014 1:12pm
Kartwheel84c wrote:
I think the track issue is way overblown, last year Tomac was the fastest on the track and was running AC222 down before the "Superman" crash...
I think the track issue is way overblown, last year Tomac was the fastest on the track and was running AC222 down before the "Superman" crash. This year he was again the fastest rider on the track coming back from a 1st turn crash. The issue is the GP riders are even with us now and we cant send a team to the Des Nations expecting to win unless its our very best 3 riders. I know there were a lot of other countries that couldnt send their best riders, Herlings, Roczen, etc, but where do you think the US team would have finished with, say, RV, Tomac and JS7?
machine wrote:
Remember though, it's voluntary, so some might choose not to go...
Oh yeah, I'm sure none of those guys like Tomac or Barcia would want to ride the 250, I'm just talking theoretically.
mattktmhall 9/28/2014 1:15pm
9/28/2014 1:15pm
rompin87 wrote:
Maybe they just need a bit more 'intensity' in the early laps instead of settling in to a steady pace like them Euros do Whistling
mark_swart wrote:
You know, after watching most all of the GP's I was convinced that the GP guys do ride conservatively the first few laps and the AMA...
You know, after watching most all of the GP's I was convinced that the GP guys do ride conservatively the first few laps and the AMA guys. But MXdN left me puzzled. Those guys looked like different riders out there! Credit where credit is due to the GP guys, Team USA was not what I expected.
What I'm trying to figure out... if it's just a TV thing... but I swear the AMA guys look faster in the opening laps during our nationals. Maybe it's just because they know the AMA tracks so well.
It's the tracks in USA that make the riders look so fast

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