Osborne Bike Issue and the “Rule”

bama205
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bama205 8/22/2020 4:17pm
8/22/2020 4:17pm
downard254 wrote:
Come on guys, racing is a show, and If the show is better with all of the top riders racing in it, then that’s what’s going...
Come on guys, racing is a show, and If the show is better with all of the top riders racing in it, then that’s what’s going to happen.
Francis377 wrote:
This is the problem exactly. Freestyle MX is a show, I hope that motocross is more than a show but a compétition of skill. For a...
This is the problem exactly. Freestyle MX is a show, I hope that motocross is more than a show but a compétition of skill. For a competition the have integrity all rules should aply to all competitors equallly. Whether this applies in this case I dont even care but I really hope that mx racing is not perceived as some kind of circus show.
Dude. Why are you acting like a privateer is in the same category as the points leader? Quit being a Karen
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Paw Paw
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Paw Paw 8/22/2020 4:19pm
8/22/2020 4:19pm
I can remember this rule used in the exact same way several times of the years. I know KW used it a couple of times.
I have seen it in both SX and MX. The top 10 in points riders should be seated when these things happen.
They have earned it.

Paw Paw
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ShipLap
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ShipLap 8/22/2020 4:48pm
8/22/2020 4:48pm
If a top rider fails to qualify in SX, he can ride the LCQ. I see this as a similar deal.
NITRODOG
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NITRODOG 8/22/2020 5:53pm
8/22/2020 5:53pm
"Life isn't fair" said Mr Robert Walker, my 8th grade history teacher. "and you may as well get use to it right now." This was when he gave a pop quiz, after saying at the start of the year that he didn't give pop quizzes. Lesson learned and my life was better for it!

Nascar use to (probably still does) have a rule that said something like...We reserve the right to institute any new rule, or modify any existing rule, at any time, as may be deemed necessary to address any given situation.
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ShipLap
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ShipLap 8/22/2020 5:54pm
8/22/2020 5:54pm
NITRODOG wrote:
"Life isn't fair" said Mr Robert Walker, my 8th grade history teacher. "and you may as well get use to it right now." This was when...
"Life isn't fair" said Mr Robert Walker, my 8th grade history teacher. "and you may as well get use to it right now." This was when he gave a pop quiz, after saying at the start of the year that he didn't give pop quizzes. Lesson learned and my life was better for it!

Nascar use to (probably still does) have a rule that said something like...We reserve the right to institute any new rule, or modify any existing rule, at any time, as may be deemed necessary to address any given situation.
Mr. Walker was dang right.
DC
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DC 8/22/2020 7:01pm
8/22/2020 7:01pm
GangGreen wrote:
A privateer 3 digit rider, who's bike wasn't running for the B Group practice would NO WAY get to ride the A Group session. I think...
A privateer 3 digit rider, who's bike wasn't running for the B Group practice would NO WAY get to ride the A Group session. I think they should always have a LCQ race, regardless of the track conditions. Osborne SHOULD be watching the races today.

Typical AMA, MX Sports Bullshit "Make up the rules as you go along !!!!!"
Bullshit, we always help people who have bike problems, no matter who they are or what their number... Because of the weather Osborne lost 2 of his 3 chances to get a lap in. He never started the first group practice, and we allowed him to be part of the second group practice. We would have done it for anyone, given that we took away two of their chances to have a second chance.

DC
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jeffro503
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jeffro503 8/22/2020 7:22pm
8/22/2020 7:22pm
GangGreen wrote:
A privateer 3 digit rider, who's bike wasn't running for the B Group practice would NO WAY get to ride the A Group session. I think...
A privateer 3 digit rider, who's bike wasn't running for the B Group practice would NO WAY get to ride the A Group session. I think they should always have a LCQ race, regardless of the track conditions. Osborne SHOULD be watching the races today.

Typical AMA, MX Sports Bullshit "Make up the rules as you go along !!!!!"
DC wrote:
Bullshit, we always help people who have bike problems, no matter who they are or what their number... Because of the weather Osborne lost 2 of...
Bullshit, we always help people who have bike problems, no matter who they are or what their number... Because of the weather Osborne lost 2 of his 3 chances to get a lap in. He never started the first group practice, and we allowed him to be part of the second group practice. We would have done it for anyone, given that we took away two of their chances to have a second chance.

DC
Racer X
Amen!!!

Who thinks Zach should of sat out because of bike issues , is a moron in my book. Flame away , I don't care.
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aeffertz
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aeffertz 8/22/2020 7:46pm
8/22/2020 7:46pm Edited Date/Time 8/22/2020 7:47pm
GangGreen wrote:
A privateer 3 digit rider, who's bike wasn't running for the B Group practice would NO WAY get to ride the A Group session. I think...
A privateer 3 digit rider, who's bike wasn't running for the B Group practice would NO WAY get to ride the A Group session. I think they should always have a LCQ race, regardless of the track conditions. Osborne SHOULD be watching the races today.

Typical AMA, MX Sports Bullshit "Make up the rules as you go along !!!!!"
How exactly do they time warp the rider on the B gate with a bike issue back in time to line up for A practice?
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DC
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DC 8/22/2020 7:54pm
8/22/2020 7:54pm Edited Date/Time 8/22/2020 7:55pm
GangGreen wrote:
A privateer 3 digit rider, who's bike wasn't running for the B Group practice would NO WAY get to ride the A Group session. I think...
A privateer 3 digit rider, who's bike wasn't running for the B Group practice would NO WAY get to ride the A Group session. I think they should always have a LCQ race, regardless of the track conditions. Osborne SHOULD be watching the races today.

Typical AMA, MX Sports Bullshit "Make up the rules as you go along !!!!!"
aeffertz wrote:
How exactly do they time warp the rider on the B gate with a bike issue back in time to line up for A practice?
Good point. When it's the 250s that go first, and the B practice is first, we have allowed a rider to ride the A group if he misses his scheduled group but then gets his bike started several times. Today, Zach never started the A practice, and almost missed the B practice before the bike got started. We are in no hurry to prevent anyone a chance to qualify, and today, with the change of format, Zach deserved a chance to ride the other group when his bike failed to start. We would have done the same for anyone else who's bike did not start, and he did not go out...

DC
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Zycki11
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Zycki11 8/22/2020 8:12pm
8/22/2020 8:12pm
DC wrote:
Bullshit, we always help people who have bike problems, no matter who they are or what their number... Because of the weather Osborne lost 2 of...
Bullshit, we always help people who have bike problems, no matter who they are or what their number... Because of the weather Osborne lost 2 of his 3 chances to get a lap in. He never started the first group practice, and we allowed him to be part of the second group practice. We would have done it for anyone, given that we took away two of their chances to have a second chance.

DC
Racer X
Then it’s settled. 👍🏻
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aeffertz
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aeffertz 8/22/2020 8:15pm
8/22/2020 8:15pm
I’m just glad the lot of you aren’t the pencil pushers and bean counters at my job. It’s like being a few minutes late to work because it snowed 16” overnight and you had to spend extra time plowing your driveway/driving to work on unplowed roads. Supervisor goes “Well the book says you have to clock in at 7 but you were 10 minutes late due to the severe snow storm so you’re fired.” Such a weird stance from so many of y’all that I assumed shared at least somewhat of the same mindset.

Permanent solution to a temporary problem.
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25dude
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25dude 8/22/2020 8:19pm
8/22/2020 8:19pm
GangGreen wrote:
A privateer 3 digit rider, who's bike wasn't running for the B Group practice would NO WAY get to ride the A Group session. I think...
A privateer 3 digit rider, who's bike wasn't running for the B Group practice would NO WAY get to ride the A Group session. I think they should always have a LCQ race, regardless of the track conditions. Osborne SHOULD be watching the races today.

Typical AMA, MX Sports Bullshit "Make up the rules as you go along !!!!!"
aeffertz wrote:
How exactly do they time warp the rider on the B gate with a bike issue back in time to line up for A practice?
DC wrote:
Good point. When it's the 250s that go first, and the B practice is first, we have allowed a rider to ride the A group if...
Good point. When it's the 250s that go first, and the B practice is first, we have allowed a rider to ride the A group if he misses his scheduled group but then gets his bike started several times. Today, Zach never started the A practice, and almost missed the B practice before the bike got started. We are in no hurry to prevent anyone a chance to qualify, and today, with the change of format, Zach deserved a chance to ride the other group when his bike failed to start. We would have done the same for anyone else who's bike did not start, and he did not go out...

DC
Racer X
Mr. Combs, with all due respect, and remember I'm sayin' with all due respect, that idea ain't worth a velvet painting of a whale and a dolphin gettin' it on.
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Racerx930
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Racerx930 8/22/2020 8:23pm
8/22/2020 8:23pm
If he didn't get to qualify there'd be an equal amount of people on here posting about how he got screwed and they need to follow the rules and run the correct amount of practices. This argument is dumb. There's nothing to see here..
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daemon616
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daemon616 8/22/2020 9:27pm
8/22/2020 9:27pm
This thread is FIRE! DC doesn't have to even participate here and I'm kind of sad he had to make a why we didn't go to Washougal video. He's earned the trust of the industry and fans. Sit down and shut up.
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Wildeye511
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Wildeye511 8/23/2020 1:27am
8/23/2020 1:27am
GangGreen wrote:
A privateer 3 digit rider, who's bike wasn't running for the B Group practice would NO WAY get to ride the A Group session. I think...
A privateer 3 digit rider, who's bike wasn't running for the B Group practice would NO WAY get to ride the A Group session. I think they should always have a LCQ race, regardless of the track conditions. Osborne SHOULD be watching the races today.

Typical AMA, MX Sports Bullshit "Make up the rules as you go along !!!!!"
DC wrote:
Bullshit, we always help people who have bike problems, no matter who they are or what their number... Because of the weather Osborne lost 2 of...
Bullshit, we always help people who have bike problems, no matter who they are or what their number... Because of the weather Osborne lost 2 of his 3 chances to get a lap in. He never started the first group practice, and we allowed him to be part of the second group practice. We would have done it for anyone, given that we took away two of their chances to have a second chance.

DC
Racer X
BAZINGA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Aussie_power_sports 8/23/2020 2:06am
8/23/2020 2:06am
Fark me....what kind of loser would want someone not to be able to race because of a minor issues. Honestly put yourself in ZO and the teams position, did it hurt anyone? Did it actually change anything that would of normally happened without the weather issues.

The 3 digit privateer that would of made it in if ZO wasnt allowed to race will have plenty of other chances to truely earn his spot on the gate, not by some technicality.
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DC
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DC 8/23/2020 4:48am
8/23/2020 4:48am
aeffertz wrote:
How exactly do they time warp the rider on the B gate with a bike issue back in time to line up for A practice?
DC wrote:
Good point. When it's the 250s that go first, and the B practice is first, we have allowed a rider to ride the A group if...
Good point. When it's the 250s that go first, and the B practice is first, we have allowed a rider to ride the A group if he misses his scheduled group but then gets his bike started several times. Today, Zach never started the A practice, and almost missed the B practice before the bike got started. We are in no hurry to prevent anyone a chance to qualify, and today, with the change of format, Zach deserved a chance to ride the other group when his bike failed to start. We would have done the same for anyone else who's bike did not start, and he did not go out...

DC
Racer X
25dude wrote:
Mr. Combs, with all due respect, and remember I'm sayin' with all due respect, that idea ain't worth a velvet painting of a whale and a...
Mr. Combs, with all due respect, and remember I'm sayin' with all due respect, that idea ain't worth a velvet painting of a whale and a dolphin gettin' it on.
I respect your opinion, though I disagree, and welcome to Vital.

DC
Racer X
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EngIceDave
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EngIceDave 8/23/2020 5:39am
8/23/2020 5:39am
I'd like to see that velvet painting of a whale and a dolphin gettin' it on.
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NewOldSchool
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NewOldSchool 8/23/2020 6:34am
8/23/2020 6:34am
aeffertz wrote:
How exactly do they time warp the rider on the B gate with a bike issue back in time to line up for A practice?
DC wrote:
Good point. When it's the 250s that go first, and the B practice is first, we have allowed a rider to ride the A group if...
Good point. When it's the 250s that go first, and the B practice is first, we have allowed a rider to ride the A group if he misses his scheduled group but then gets his bike started several times. Today, Zach never started the A practice, and almost missed the B practice before the bike got started. We are in no hurry to prevent anyone a chance to qualify, and today, with the change of format, Zach deserved a chance to ride the other group when his bike failed to start. We would have done the same for anyone else who's bike did not start, and he did not go out...

DC
Racer X
25dude wrote:
Mr. Combs, with all due respect, and remember I'm sayin' with all due respect, that idea ain't worth a velvet painting of a whale and a...
Mr. Combs, with all due respect, and remember I'm sayin' with all due respect, that idea ain't worth a velvet painting of a whale and a dolphin gettin' it on.
Haha great movie!
xrmark
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xrmark 8/23/2020 7:01am
8/23/2020 7:01am
GangGreen wrote:
A privateer 3 digit rider, who's bike wasn't running for the B Group practice would NO WAY get to ride the A Group session. I think...
A privateer 3 digit rider, who's bike wasn't running for the B Group practice would NO WAY get to ride the A Group session. I think they should always have a LCQ race, regardless of the track conditions. Osborne SHOULD be watching the races today.

Typical AMA, MX Sports Bullshit "Make up the rules as you go along !!!!!"
So by your logic, if your truck won’t start in the morning and you end up 20 minutes late to work, you shouldn’t even bother showing up then? Just scratch the whole days worth of pay? Typical vital douchebag typing bullshit again!!
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MPJC
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MPJC 8/23/2020 7:02am
8/23/2020 7:02am
The idea that officials should never exercise discretion in the application of rules is absurd. That’s typically obvious and it’s bizarre that it escapes some in this thread. Take the speeding example: If a cop pulls you over for speeding and it’s because you’re rushing someone to the hospital, they may not give you a ticket. They might give you a police escort. Of course nobody’s life was at stake In Osbourne’s situation but the point is that atypical situations are proper occasions for discretion. Take a moment to imagine a world where discretion was never exercised - where all rules and laws were followed to the letter, regardless of circumstances. I’m pretty sure none of us would want to live in that world.
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brocster
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brocster 8/23/2020 7:42am
8/23/2020 7:42am Edited Date/Time 8/23/2020 8:42pm
GangGreen wrote:
A privateer 3 digit rider, who's bike wasn't running for the B Group practice would NO WAY get to ride the A Group session. I think...
A privateer 3 digit rider, who's bike wasn't running for the B Group practice would NO WAY get to ride the A Group session. I think they should always have a LCQ race, regardless of the track conditions. Osborne SHOULD be watching the races today.

Typical AMA, MX Sports Bullshit "Make up the rules as you go along !!!!!"
xrmark wrote:
So by your logic, if your truck won’t start in the morning and you end up 20 minutes late to work, you shouldn’t even bother showing...
So by your logic, if your truck won’t start in the morning and you end up 20 minutes late to work, you shouldn’t even bother showing up then? Just scratch the whole days worth of pay? Typical vital douchebag typing bullshit again!!
Can’t make the analogy fit your agenda... the time to be late is not open ended. He was GRANTED permission to participate in work after showing up late

All Gang Green was trying to say is that if a rider/privateer in 450 B had bike problems and missed practice. Would he have been GRANTED time on the track to attempt to qualify. Keep in mind that 450B were the last bikes on the track, so would he have gotten solo laps???...
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Falcon
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Falcon 8/23/2020 7:59am
8/23/2020 7:59am
I missed the part about why Zach missed the practices. I thought his bike would not start... Is that not the case? If so, I'm leaning toward "sorry, you missed your chance. Better luck next time." Especially given the fact that as the points leader, he is automatically seeded into the motos. Give him the last gate pick and be done with it.

Motocross is about man AND machine. If your machine isn't ready, that's part of the equation.
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GangGreen
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GangGreen 8/23/2020 8:07am
8/23/2020 8:07am
Zycki11 wrote:
Allowing Osborne to practice in the B group is wrong. It’s not like the B group can switch on a whim to A. Hell if they...
Allowing Osborne to practice in the B group is wrong. It’s not like the B group can switch on a whim to A. Hell if they had a C group would they let him in to that practice?

Suicidal_Tendencies wrote:
Would you really not want ZO to race because of the issues he had in his qualifying? Not me.
I know everyone, including myself, wanted Zach Osborne to line up and race. Maybe the "Powers that be" should consider modifying the rule book and think about always running the LCQ race, regardless of weather.

Here are a few times it would have been nice to have such flexible rules:

1986: The defending Supercross Champ, Jeff Ward, had a broken throttle cable in the Heat Race which knocked him out of a chance to qualify. Rules stated he must ride a lap in the Heat to race the LCQ.

1987: Ron Lechien overslept on Saturday and missed a mandatory practice or meeting at the Steel City USGP. He was not allowed to race and Kawasaki built him a sweet works KX125cc for just this event.
These stats courtesy of https://racerxonline.com/


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brocster
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brocster 8/23/2020 8:08am
8/23/2020 8:08am
Falcon wrote:
I missed the part about why Zach missed the practices. I thought his bike would not start... Is that not the case? If so, I'm leaning...
I missed the part about why Zach missed the practices. I thought his bike would not start... Is that not the case? If so, I'm leaning toward "sorry, you missed your chance. Better luck next time." Especially given the fact that as the points leader, he is automatically seeded into the motos. Give him the last gate pick and be done with it.

Motocross is about man AND machine. If your machine isn't ready, that's part of the equation.
Rode his bike to the line for practice and when it was time to qualify his bike wouldn’t start. They ripped it apart right there on the line, working feverishly, and burnt up all group A time before getting it fired up. (Bad fuel pump) he was then let to ride in group B.
bvm111
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bvm111 8/23/2020 8:23am
8/23/2020 8:23am
i just want to know how many people were wearing masks this week? Whistling
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bigk218
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bigk218 8/23/2020 8:31am
8/23/2020 8:31am
philG wrote:
Someone will protest
Good thing Star doesn’t have the 450 team yet
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APLMAN99
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APLMAN99 8/23/2020 10:10am
8/23/2020 10:10am
Like others have said, it's pretty easy to see both sides of the coin. Ideally rules are rigid and applied to every competitor and designed to give equal opportunity to every competitor in the event. This decision wasn't "in theory" something that met that spirit. If a rider scheduled for 250 A or 450 B qualifying had the same issue, they wouldn't have been afforded the same opportunity.

That makes the rule book seem more like the suggestion book.

However, if I had to make that decision and knowing that 2/3 of the practice sessions had to be cancelled, I'd have likely made the same choice and lived with any backlash from it.

It was an exceptional case that really isn't considered well in the rule book and there is enough grey area to make an exception.
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