Opinions on Using ATF For Bottom End in A 2 Stroke

Lightning78
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Lightning78
Edited Date/Time 1/27/2012 12:36am
Been looking at this for my 01 RM250 due to the grabby clutch....... but on the fence regarding using it.

Would like to hear you guys input (pros vs cons) on using this stuff for a 2 stroke bottom end.......
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ATKpilot99
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ATKpilot99 11/20/2011 11:54am
11/20/2011 11:54am
Do a search on this at Thumpertalk and you will find tons of threads on this subject. Never tried ATF myself but the people who use it claim smoother shifting and better clutch action. There is a certain type to use though as I believe some ATF fluids contain additives you don't want in a motorcycle gearbox.
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crf250pilot
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crf250pilot 11/20/2011 11:54am
11/20/2011 11:54am
Used to run ATF in our minis back in the day, But we changed it so often that it didn't matter much, between motos even. Also works as fork oil. I've gone to Maxima 85wt or Honda 2- stroke trans oil and can leave it longer before changing.
Lightning78
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Lightning78 11/20/2011 11:59am
11/20/2011 11:59am
crf250pilot wrote:
Used to run ATF in our minis back in the day, But we changed it so often that it didn't matter much, between motos even. Also...
Used to run ATF in our minis back in the day, But we changed it so often that it didn't matter much, between motos even. Also works as fork oil. I've gone to Maxima 85wt or Honda 2- stroke trans oil and can leave it longer before changing.
I usually run 10/40w in my trannys currently, while the 85wt lasts MUCh longer I was once told that the tradeoff is that 85wt will wear out a clutch faster due to the viscocity and it not being able to pass through the holes and channeld in a transmission as quickly as 10/40wt thus making the clutch run hotter and wear faster, I replaced clutches on all my bikes when using 85wt but cant remember the last time I had to replace a clutch using 10/40wt and I am a clucth abuser on my smokers. This may be a wives tale but from a logical standpoint it does make sense.
ebers
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ebers 11/20/2011 12:07pm
11/20/2011 12:07pm
i'm using rotella-t ... do a little search on that as well

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OldGuy
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OldGuy 11/20/2011 12:10pm
11/20/2011 12:10pm
If you use ATF, use Type F, made for the older fords. No friction modifiers to make clutch slip. Have used it with great success. Works great in 50cc that need to be changed all the time.
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OldGuy
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OldGuy 11/20/2011 12:11pm
11/20/2011 12:11pm
ebers wrote:
i'm using rotella-t ... do a little search on that as well
No friction modifiers also.
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ThegodSmith
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ThegodSmith 11/20/2011 12:28pm
11/20/2011 12:28pm
Because of the way you phrased your question I'll point out that the trans lube is not lubricating the bottom end (aka crank and rod).

The bottom end is lubed by the oil in your fuel. Surprisingly many people don't know this.
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headache
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headache 11/20/2011 12:58pm
11/20/2011 12:58pm
I've been running type F for years in all 2stroke quads and dirtbikes and have never had any issues. Just change it more than you would regular oil. And its a heck of a lot cheaper than buying 10w40 trans oil
kaboom645 11/20/2011 1:37pm
11/20/2011 1:37pm
I am EXTREMELY hard on the clutch in my bikes, and I usually go a full year without killing one using Bel-Ray Gear Saver 80wt oil in the trans. I change it every other ride, or if I at a track that I know the clutch will see some abuse I will change it, but regardless I have had really great luck with it and I will not run anything else in my trans.
Sheriff245 11/20/2011 2:07pm
11/20/2011 2:07pm
I've used ATF in the past, the Dexron III type. Worked well to keep the clutch from slipping but I felt the shifting was a tad harder. I would use wet-clutch safe gear oil and use ATF in a pinch to temporarily fix a slipping clutch.
loftyair
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loftyair 11/20/2011 2:09pm
11/20/2011 2:09pm
Why not use MTL or MTF, it is a manual trans, not an Automatic. I have had great results with the maxima MTL.
Chili
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Chili 11/20/2011 2:36pm
11/20/2011 2:36pm
We used Type F ATF in all of our 2 stroke Zooks over the years and liked the results for the grabby clutch.
Jakes Dad
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Jakes Dad 11/20/2011 3:04pm
11/20/2011 3:04pm Edited Date/Time 11/20/2011 3:04pm
loftyair wrote:
Why not use MTL or MTF, it is a manual trans, not an Automatic. I have had great results with the maxima MTL.
Ever seen the inside of an automatic trans? Very similar components, after over 12 years racing with a 600hp to 800hp big block chevy's. I'll stick with ATF type F in the kids dirt bikes.
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machine
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machine 11/20/2011 3:11pm
11/20/2011 3:11pm
The best tranny oil i've used is the Pro Honda trans oil.
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MtnBoy
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MtnBoy 11/20/2011 3:16pm
11/20/2011 3:16pm
ebers wrote:
i'm using rotella-t ... do a little search on that as well
That's what I use too
bvm111
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bvm111 11/20/2011 3:28pm
11/20/2011 3:28pm
machine wrote:
The best tranny oil i've used is the Pro Honda trans oil.
Agreed... It works so good that I used it in my Kawasakis when I switched from Honda!

I always kept a TypeF ATF in my tool box incase the clutch started slipping at the track to save my second moto!
easton
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easton 11/20/2011 3:30pm
11/20/2011 3:30pm
I have used Spectro Clutch saver in all my 125's and have never had one problem.
mjskier
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mjskier 11/20/2011 3:36pm
11/20/2011 3:36pm
If you go the ATF route, be aware that some types might work better than other. For example, the guys from Gasgas say the GM Track II is too slippery. They recommend the Dextron or type F for their trial bikes.

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nytsmaC
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nytsmaC 11/20/2011 6:21pm
11/20/2011 6:21pm
Always used Type F in my Kawi's, it worked great. Like others have mentioned you need to change it more often. I've been using Motorex 15-50 in my Huskies, the 125 has a grabby clutch and I'm going to try Ipone as per my dealer's recommendation. I expect I'll be going to Type F again but they convinced me to give this Ipone stuff a chance.
Bret
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Bret 11/20/2011 6:55pm
11/20/2011 6:55pm
Nothing wrong with ATF in a two-stroke transmission. Type-F is what you want to use.

Regarding the viscosity of gear oil vs engine oil, as a reference,
10W-40wt engine oil is roughly equivalent to 75W-90wt gear oil and
15W-50wt engine oil is roughly equivalent to 80W-90wt gear oil.
Gear oil and crankcase oil SAE viscosity grades are not equivalent.

The following chart shows the relationship of "real" viscosity to
their S.A.E. assigned numbers. The relationship of gear oils to
engine oils is also shown.

_______________________________________________________________
| |
| SAE Gear Viscosity Number |
| ________________________________________________________ |
| |75W |80W |85W| 90 | 140 | |
| |____|_____|___|______________|________________________| |
| |
| SAE Crank Case Viscosity Number |
| ____________________________ |
| |10| 20 | 30 | 40 | 50 | |
| |__|_____|____|_____|______| |
|_____________________________________________________________|
2 4 6 8 10 12 14 16 18 20 22 24 26 28 30 32 34 36 38 40 42
viscosity cSt @ 100 degrees C

Basically, you can use standard motor oil, as long as it does not
have the "energy saving" logo on it.
seth505
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seth505 11/21/2011 6:29am
11/21/2011 6:29am
Back in highschool/when I was poor I used a 50/50 mix of ATF dextron and 10w-40 motor oil in my YZs. Worked great. but these days I just use Honda HP or Amsoil
Ing
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Ing 11/21/2011 6:44am
11/21/2011 6:44am
easton wrote:
I have used Spectro Clutch saver in all my 125's and have never had one problem.
X 2.
Mr. Ted
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Mr. Ted 11/21/2011 7:15am
11/21/2011 7:15am
What they all said (more or less). I've used Type F-no problems, Rotella-no problems, Amsoil-no problems. Just a matter of changing as frequently as required by the amount of time you put on the bike.
YZDAD
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YZDAD 11/21/2011 9:02am
11/21/2011 9:02am
Bret wrote:
Nothing wrong with ATF in a two-stroke transmission. Type-F is what you want to use. Regarding the viscosity of gear oil vs engine oil, as a...
Nothing wrong with ATF in a two-stroke transmission. Type-F is what you want to use.

Regarding the viscosity of gear oil vs engine oil, as a reference,
10W-40wt engine oil is roughly equivalent to 75W-90wt gear oil and
15W-50wt engine oil is roughly equivalent to 80W-90wt gear oil.
Gear oil and crankcase oil SAE viscosity grades are not equivalent.

The following chart shows the relationship of "real" viscosity to
their S.A.E. assigned numbers. The relationship of gear oils to
engine oils is also shown.

_______________________________________________________________
| |
| SAE Gear Viscosity Number |
| ________________________________________________________ |
| |75W |80W |85W| 90 | 140 | |
| |____|_____|___|______________|________________________| |
| |
| SAE Crank Case Viscosity Number |
| ____________________________ |
| |10| 20 | 30 | 40 | 50 | |
| |__|_____|____|_____|______| |
|_____________________________________________________________|
2 4 6 8 10 12 14 16 18 20 22 24 26 28 30 32 34 36 38 40 42
viscosity cSt @ 100 degrees C

Basically, you can use standard motor oil, as long as it does not
have the "energy saving" logo on it.
Thanks for clearing that up, Bret! I have often wondered why you would run 85W in a tranny, thinking it was very thick.

Thanks again!
Bret
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Bret 11/21/2011 10:27am
11/21/2011 10:27am Edited Date/Time 11/21/2011 10:27am
Stay away from any oil that has this logo on the bottle, regardless of the viscosity. Your clutch will slip if it says "Energy Conserving".

Arkmx
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Arkmx 11/21/2011 11:17am
11/21/2011 11:17am
I used the Lucas Oil Semi Synthetic Sure Shift ATF in our 50's along with 10% of the Heavy Duty Oil Stabilizer with no problems.

Also Lucas Oil Semi Synthetic 10w-40 and you can go twice as long between oil changes on the big bikes.

A tip is to add 10% of the Heavy Duty Oil Stabilizer to the total refill capacity (90% oil / 10% HDOS) when doing your oil changes. If not comfortable using the 10w-40 there is a 20w-50 available or even the 15w-40 TBN Diesel oil too. The HDOS will not make your Clutch slip! The “Synthetic Heavy Duty Oil Stabilizer” may cause some slipping if too much is used. (I experienced that during our 50cc days mixing / adding with full synthetic 5wt oils).

My oldest Step son uses it in his bikes (250F & 450F) for the past few years, races in the +25 and Pro classes and experiences no problems whatsoever with the 10w-40 or the 20w-50 mixed as mentioned above.

Our 2008 KX 85 has only gone through 1-set of clutches during four seasons of races and non-race practice sessions, using the above 10w-40 set-up described above. (Trace pulled 4 Holeshots Saturday on a 2 1/2 year old clutch).

Changed the oil in our 125 after Zach's 4th moto Saturday & 6 1/2 hours of time on it since I rebuilt the motor after purchasing the used bike and it could have gone longer. It was brownish in color but not black or burnt etc. Put some on a paper towel and it was a dark golden color with no signs of clutch fiber goo.


Hope this helps in your choice of what to use.

JG.


.
Lightning78
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Lightning78 11/21/2011 11:44am
11/21/2011 11:44am
ThegodSmith wrote:
Because of the way you phrased your question I'll point out that the trans lube is not lubricating the bottom end (aka crank and rod). The...
Because of the way you phrased your question I'll point out that the trans lube is not lubricating the bottom end (aka crank and rod).

The bottom end is lubed by the oil in your fuel. Surprisingly many people don't know this.
That's what I meant I was assuming it was understood Haha id be amazed if anyone didn't know this
ThegodSmith
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ThegodSmith 11/21/2011 1:00pm
11/21/2011 1:00pm
ThegodSmith wrote:
Because of the way you phrased your question I'll point out that the trans lube is not lubricating the bottom end (aka crank and rod). The...
Because of the way you phrased your question I'll point out that the trans lube is not lubricating the bottom end (aka crank and rod).

The bottom end is lubed by the oil in your fuel. Surprisingly many people don't know this.
Lightning78 wrote:
That's what I meant I was assuming it was understood Haha id be amazed if anyone didn't know this
Just a couple of weeks ago I had to explain this to two of the guys I ride with. They were shocked, I was dumbfounded. Your post reminded of that, glad to hear it's not common.
T-Fish
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T-Fish 8/6/2019 8:10pm
8/6/2019 8:10pm
Bringing this thread back from the dead. A buddy of mine has a 2007 KTM 50 mini and we are wondering if he can run Ford Type F ATF in it. I can’t see it being an issue, but figured someone else may know.

Thanks!
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Nuffsaid
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Nuffsaid 8/6/2019 8:20pm
8/6/2019 8:20pm
Type F, run the cheapest you can find and change it often and religiously, run a magnet through it and have a look, usually clean as a whistle. Run expensive stuff for a year and run a magnet through it, you’ll end up running ATF.

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