Old vs new?

Tenacious P
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Tenacious P 4/20/2017 9:44am
4/20/2017 9:44am
All pro motocross athletes are tuff, but the current crop are extremely, unbelievably fit as well. That was not always the case.
Our sport became exponentially more difficult in the top ranks after the 90's. You don't see current guys partying it up in Havisu or heading to the bars after races are done. Today's riders go home after races to eat free-range chicken breasts with kale and to sleep!


I'm going with New > Old, but attribute this to modern sport-science, not the athletes tenacity or fortitude.
Bultaco
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Bultaco 4/20/2017 9:59am
4/20/2017 9:59am
Tenacious P wrote:
All pro motocross athletes are tuff, but the current crop are extremely, unbelievably fit as well. That was not always the case. Our sport became exponentially...
All pro motocross athletes are tuff, but the current crop are extremely, unbelievably fit as well. That was not always the case.
Our sport became exponentially more difficult in the top ranks after the 90's. You don't see current guys partying it up in Havisu or heading to the bars after races are done. Today's riders go home after races to eat free-range chicken breasts with kale and to sleep!


I'm going with New > Old, but attribute this to modern sport-science, not the athletes tenacity or fortitude.
Well put.
JPT
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JPT 4/20/2017 10:09am
4/20/2017 10:09am
I think it was De Coster that said back in the day the top riders could break any bike they rode. Today's riders would have to adjust to the fact that they couldn't ride an early 70's bike like a current one without destroying it and themselves in the process. The old riders would be excited with the capabilities of the new bikes.

Who would do better, really hard to tell.
1-forty-8
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1-forty-8 4/20/2017 11:32am
4/20/2017 11:32am
Tenacious P wrote:
All pro motocross athletes are tuff, but the current crop are extremely, unbelievably fit as well. That was not always the case. Our sport became exponentially...
All pro motocross athletes are tuff, but the current crop are extremely, unbelievably fit as well. That was not always the case.
Our sport became exponentially more difficult in the top ranks after the 90's. You don't see current guys partying it up in Havisu or heading to the bars after races are done. Today's riders go home after races to eat free-range chicken breasts with kale and to sleep!


I'm going with New > Old, but attribute this to modern sport-science, not the athletes tenacity or fortitude.
Yeah, never seen a cigarette hang out of Dungeys mouth in between motos either lol..

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Falcon
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Falcon 4/20/2017 11:56am
4/20/2017 11:56am
Old guys would have an advantage on the current riders if they were riding vintage tracks on vintage bikes. The new guys' fitness would definitely be better, but they'd break their bikes pretty quickly and DNF too often.

The current riders would obliterate the old guys on modern bikes in virtually any track condition. DeCoster, Mikkola, Hannah and the like were not this fast. No way. (And I'm an old dude!)
1-forty-8
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1-forty-8 4/20/2017 12:02pm
4/20/2017 12:02pm
Falcon wrote:
Old guys would have an advantage on the current riders if they were riding vintage tracks on vintage bikes. The new guys' fitness would definitely be...
Old guys would have an advantage on the current riders if they were riding vintage tracks on vintage bikes. The new guys' fitness would definitely be better, but they'd break their bikes pretty quickly and DNF too often.

The current riders would obliterate the old guys on modern bikes in virtually any track condition. DeCoster, Mikkola, Hannah and the like were not this fast. No way. (And I'm an old dude!)
And I was just about to make a point how all of us seem to be biased towards our own generation and you go and say that haha thanks man. But fair play. Nice to read an opinion of a self called old dude and say that.

The generation of riders racing when I fell in love with motocross includes McGrath, Everts and RC.

So my generation is the actual best ever. LaughingTongue
wreckitrandy
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wreckitrandy 4/20/2017 1:10pm
4/20/2017 1:10pm
Hannah kind of bridged this gap. He raced DeCoster when RD was an old man. He raced Bailey and RJ when he was was an old man. He out ran Emig in a foot race around Southwick when he was an even older man. Emig beat MC. MC beat RC. RC beat everybody's butt..... Hannah said in DeCoster's prime, on bikes from his era, on tracks from his era, in a 40 plus 2 moto, he works all of them. There are no new techniques that would apply to the old tracks and bikes. Someone else mentioned the new guys would break the bikes. More than likely. Also, since all the new guys are constantly chasing setup with an army of technicians, how do you think they would do if they had to race a factory CZ with half worn out tires? On a track so dusty you literally can't see the ground? After welding their own frame between motos?

The new guys are great right now. They work hard. But I think the old guys would adapt better to new techniques than the new guys would to old style bikes and conditions.
Park Boys
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Park Boys 4/20/2017 1:14pm
4/20/2017 1:14pm
1-forty-8 wrote:
What do you guys think would be a harder transition, taking a great of the old era, say a Baily or Decoster in their prime and...
What do you guys think would be a harder transition, taking a great of the old era, say a Baily or Decoster in their prime and putting him in today's era, or taking a Roczen or Dungey and putting him in the 70's or 80's.

Obviously each would have there own challenges, but who do you think would have the most success, the gnarly old boys today or the current boys, taking with them the evolution of the sport and everything we now know (not just starting from scratch, as if they were always there) going back?
BobbyM wrote:
Put any of these modern racers on an actual MOTOCROSS track and they all would have a difficult time of it. There are literally no actual...
Put any of these modern racers on an actual MOTOCROSS track and they all would have a difficult time of it. There are literally no actual motocross tracks still alive today as far as I know.
By Motocross do you mean putting a street bike tire on and racing in California?
Park Boys
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Park Boys 4/20/2017 1:16pm
4/20/2017 1:16pm
Someone post the photo of Windham hucking that massive jump on a 70s bike. That should answer it all.
1-forty-8
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1-forty-8 4/20/2017 1:23pm
4/20/2017 1:23pm
wreckitrandy wrote:
Hannah kind of bridged this gap. He raced DeCoster when RD was an old man. He raced Bailey and RJ when he was was an old...
Hannah kind of bridged this gap. He raced DeCoster when RD was an old man. He raced Bailey and RJ when he was was an old man. He out ran Emig in a foot race around Southwick when he was an even older man. Emig beat MC. MC beat RC. RC beat everybody's butt..... Hannah said in DeCoster's prime, on bikes from his era, on tracks from his era, in a 40 plus 2 moto, he works all of them. There are no new techniques that would apply to the old tracks and bikes. Someone else mentioned the new guys would break the bikes. More than likely. Also, since all the new guys are constantly chasing setup with an army of technicians, how do you think they would do if they had to race a factory CZ with half worn out tires? On a track so dusty you literally can't see the ground? After welding their own frame between motos?

The new guys are great right now. They work hard. But I think the old guys would adapt better to new techniques than the new guys would to old style bikes and conditions.
Can you imagine the hissy fit that some of the new guys would have riding in conditions like that of the old school haha and them old school boys wouldn't think twice about kicking RV in his dodgy knees any chance they got...
1-forty-8
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1-forty-8 4/20/2017 1:24pm
4/20/2017 1:24pm
Park Boys wrote:
Someone post the photo of Windham hucking that massive jump on a 70s bike. That should answer it all.
We're there jumps that big back then though..?
mx295
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mx295 4/20/2017 2:29pm
4/20/2017 2:29pm
Park Boys wrote:
Someone post the photo of Windham hucking that massive jump on a 70s bike. That should answer it all.
I already did. Check page 1 Smile
drt410
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drt410 4/20/2017 5:08pm
4/20/2017 5:08pm
Riders are in so much better shape these days, ride the practice track 24/7, are more knowledgeable about bike setup, eat strict regimented meals, and don't drink alcohol. I think its pretty obvious.
bama205
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bama205 4/20/2017 5:26pm
4/20/2017 5:26pm
Even better question: who would score more women?
Rct851
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Rct851 4/20/2017 5:37pm
4/20/2017 5:37pm
what is going to have to happen to the equipment, technique and tracks to a point where we're having this debate and asking if Carmichael or js7 would be able to hang?


mattyhamz2
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mattyhamz2 4/20/2017 7:39pm
4/20/2017 7:39pm
bama205 wrote:
Even better question: who would score more women?
definitely the older guys
Crush
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Crush 4/20/2017 8:07pm
4/20/2017 8:07pm
bama205 wrote:
Even better question: who would score more women?
mattyhamz2 wrote:
definitely the older guys
Well yeah, the old guys would walk up to them and start talking, the new dudes would be trying to hit them up on tinder.
FreshTopEnd
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FreshTopEnd 4/20/2017 8:30pm
4/20/2017 8:30pm Edited Date/Time 4/20/2017 8:32pm
1-forty-8 wrote:
What do you guys think would be a harder transition, taking a great of the old era, say a Baily or Decoster in their prime and...
What do you guys think would be a harder transition, taking a great of the old era, say a Baily or Decoster in their prime and putting him in today's era, or taking a Roczen or Dungey and putting him in the 70's or 80's.

Obviously each would have there own challenges, but who do you think would have the most success, the gnarly old boys today or the current boys, taking with them the evolution of the sport and everything we now know (not just starting from scratch, as if they were always there) going back?
It would be a lot less of a transition back to the Bailey era than it would be to the DeCoster era; that period from 75-85 was a sea change.

But the very best in any era, the elite 3 or 4, would be the same strong willed competitors that would go to the top in any era.

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shortcourse
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shortcourse 4/20/2017 8:48pm
4/20/2017 8:48pm
In the middle you have "MAGOO", I think he'd be the best to go old to new. He rode in "Beast" mode on some pretty hard to ride bikes, I rode and owned some of them in the day...can still feel it everyday.
Rct851
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Rct851 4/21/2017 4:58am
4/21/2017 4:58am
bama205 wrote:
Even better question: who would score more women?
$$$$. I think the top modern guys have the edge.

Forkners Instagram gets pretty solid traffic
doghouse
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doghouse 4/21/2017 6:36am
4/21/2017 6:36am
bama205 wrote:
Even better question: who would score more women?
mattyhamz2 wrote:
definitely the older guys
Crush wrote:
Well yeah, the old guys would walk up to them and start talking, the new dudes would be trying to hit them up on tinder.
lol. Accurate.
doghouse
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doghouse 4/21/2017 6:37am
4/21/2017 6:37am
FreshTopEnd wrote:
It would be a lot less of a transition back to the Bailey era than it would be to the DeCoster era; that period from 75-85...
It would be a lot less of a transition back to the Bailey era than it would be to the DeCoster era; that period from 75-85 was a sea change.

But the very best in any era, the elite 3 or 4, would be the same strong willed competitors that would go to the top in any era.

My sentiments exactly.
1-forty-8
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1-forty-8 4/21/2017 1:01pm
4/21/2017 1:01pm
FreshTopEnd wrote:
It would be a lot less of a transition back to the Bailey era than it would be to the DeCoster era; that period from 75-85...
It would be a lot less of a transition back to the Bailey era than it would be to the DeCoster era; that period from 75-85 was a sea change.

But the very best in any era, the elite 3 or 4, would be the same strong willed competitors that would go to the top in any era.

I think this statement right here ends the argument. I've always seen determination a way more important trait than talent. Harder to come by to imo.
Honda88L
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Honda88L 4/21/2017 5:23pm
4/21/2017 5:23pm Edited Date/Time 4/21/2017 5:34pm
There are just way too many assumptions here as to what each would do "in their prime" on the different bike. The Windham, who I like, picture says nothing. I saw Cooper(74 Bultaco) and Lechien(74 CZ) launch the Skyshot at Unadilla in 13-like 120 feet. Doing that just takes a lot of balls.

The tracks today are designed for todays bike as they were back then. I had the pleasure of going to Nationals throughout the entire 80's and they ran those bikes to the limit they could tolerate. Trust me you would like to see a 500cc National back then-just an amazing thing to see how fast they went on all bikes back then. I am also in agreement that the top 3 in both eras would be at the top in either. You can't just assume Dungey would be beat Decoster or Hannah when they were at the top or vice versa.

If the only thing you've ever seen is a video of "back in the day" keep in mind the technology of the time. I have always said TV does not do MX justice but it has gotten WAY better. I think they look slow when I watch them.

Finally - if we are talking about a mud race - old guys all day long........ There wasn't the $$'s back then for everyone to live in dryer or even warm climate. They rode where they lived and if it rained you still practiced. Just sayin.
RPM68
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RPM68 4/21/2017 5:36pm
4/21/2017 5:36pm
I learned at a very young age to never underestimate grey hair. Old dudes are tough as nails.
cason402
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cason402 4/21/2017 5:39pm
4/21/2017 5:39pm
Decoster at the start of his career:



The bike he finished his career on (with a GP win at his last race):



Anyone arguing he couldn't beat Tomac, ever ride a factory 500?

Give Decoster his 20 year old body back, and he would DOMINATE. U.S. MX, GP's and SX
TeamGreen
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TeamGreen 4/21/2017 6:53pm
4/21/2017 6:53pm
1-forty-8 wrote:
What do you guys think would be a harder transition, taking a great of the old era, say a Baily or Decoster in their prime and...
What do you guys think would be a harder transition, taking a great of the old era, say a Baily or Decoster in their prime and putting him in today's era, or taking a Roczen or Dungey and putting him in the 70's or 80's.

Obviously each would have there own challenges, but who do you think would have the most success, the gnarly old boys today or the current boys, taking with them the evolution of the sport and everything we now know (not just starting from scratch, as if they were always there) going back?
BobbyM wrote:
Put any of these modern racers on an actual MOTOCROSS track and they all would have a difficult time of it. There are literally no actual...
Put any of these modern racers on an actual MOTOCROSS track and they all would have a difficult time of it. There are literally no actual motocross tracks still alive today as far as I know.
Bobby...

The Moto-Kids of today are the ultimate development of the DNA of Moto from yesteryear. They'd shred the old hill-side grass covered track at Sears Point and they'd pay homage to all of y'all at the end of the the racing day.

They are awesome.
They are us...and they are Danny.

Today.

The kids are alright.
Ted722
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Ted722 4/21/2017 9:17pm
4/21/2017 9:17pm Edited Date/Time 4/21/2017 9:23pm
The top guys of any era would figure it out. Would love to see Carmichael on a Vintage Bike or an in his prime Glover on a Factory CRF450 (..yes, I put him on a Honda, just having fun).

Anyway, I was looking at a few rounds from '98 tonight and stumbled on this. Mostly talking about machinery, but gives some insight and what riders had to think about back then.

The Man on yesteryear

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