Odds of another series..think aaf vs nfl

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2/19/2019 4:20 PM

As a businessman at heart and small time entrepreneur (at this point). I cant help but think that Feld is raking in the dough with sx. I have crunched numbers before and im sure i have missed expenses but there is no way Feld is not making money (i would believe very good money). If they werent they wouldnt keep doing it.

Is there a chance we see another series? Sure top riders on the factory teams may not race or the factories may not initially support it but if you cna do some good marketing, fair pricing, fair vendor pricing, BETTER PAYOUTS, PROFIT SHARING with the riders (even a little can go a long way). Let others pay to stream per race or series. Is it not possible that another series vould pop up.

Yes, i understand Feld has most larger stadiums under contract, but Feld doesnt have all stadiums under contract. If someone got creative enough i think it could happen. As matter of fact, i would love me a piece of that pie...maybe in time.

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2/19/2019 4:20 PM
Edited Date/Time: 2/19/2019 4:26 PM

Not even a small chance

The worst possible thing a small sport like SX/MX could do would be to further fracture itself with competing series etc.

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2/19/2019 4:24 PM

Reminds me of the Bookoo Arenacross series back in the day

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2/19/2019 4:28 PM
Edited Date/Time: 2/19/2019 4:40 PM

No... but also in my opinion thats bad for the fans anyways. Its already bad enough the GP racers dont race AMA guys, but to split up sx now would be horrible for fans. The only option for a “new” sx series would be a world sx series tying the Paris, Geneva, London, Canada, US, Japan, and maybe even Australian sx events onto 1 schedule like the MXGPs and FIM is the only ones in the place to ever do this.

Even then prob not doable because of MASSIVE travel costs... 250s and privateers could not go, so itd have to be only 1 premier class with like 15 guys. Even then the travel is nuts so maybe youd have to just double up stadiums in Europe, use a couple different in the US and Canada. Getting this off the ground would be near impossible unless your a billionaire with billionaire friends. Prob still impossible.

The only real way a brand new sx happens is if FIM SX becomes a world sx traveling series. “World championship” really just means Europe + a couple nearby countries anyways with MXGP, F1, etc... because insane logistics, but then make a US one in its place after this one expands if there is nothing that is left filling the void. Until then its really not possible, plus imo worse for the fans.

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2/19/2019 4:33 PM

Zero point zero. Or less.

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2/19/2019 4:34 PM

Like Insport in the mid 80s?

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vomiting equals disqualification.

2/19/2019 4:41 PM

BroFoSho wrote:

Reminds me of the Bookoo Arenacross series back in the day

That BooKoo energy was wild for a good couple of years lol

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Chuck Norris is the reason why Waldo is hiding.

2/19/2019 4:41 PM

Zero.

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2/19/2019 4:42 PM

with out the top teams committing the top riders, it will always be seen as a B series,

and i have not seen anything that says the factories are ready to leave the Feld/AMA/FIM

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2/19/2019 4:44 PM

scott_nz wrote:

with out the top teams committing the top riders, it will always be seen as a B series,

and i have not seen anything that says the factories are ready to leave the Feld/AMA/FIM

In reality, wasn't that basically what arenacross was? A B-series?

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2/19/2019 4:47 PM

From what I hear the AAF won't make it to the 3rd weekend. Proceed with caution.

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2/19/2019 4:58 PM

How did it work out for Indy car racing?

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2/19/2019 5:01 PM

Like the Jam Sports fiasco?

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2/19/2019 5:03 PM

There’s a non Feld series out there called the Kicker Arenacross series and on average 8-10 pro riders are showing up. It pays good too.

Supercross only has 40 guys showing up in the 450 class (plus or minus).

Plainly put- racing is declining. There is no need for a farm system.

I don’t know what the canary out of the colemine was, but he flew long ago. Now it’s just time to sit back and watch it burn to the ground. Cheers.

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2/19/2019 5:06 PM

I’d love to see a short Trans AMA series come back in the fall. Maybe a four race series, in October/early November. Let the euros come over and compete for a short title. Would be fun to watch, and wouldn’t take away from any other series. I think there would be more interest for that now than back then. Just for the love of god leave it as an outdoors series. No supercross.

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2/19/2019 5:37 PM

Slim to none!

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2/20/2019 6:41 AM

I have thought about this extensively in the past.

What you say makes a lot of sense. If a promoter could get lined up with a couple good investors and corporate sponsors, I absolutely feel it could be done. The biggest challenge, like you mentioned, are the expenses associated with each race. If you could cover those expenses and consistently put fans in seats, that's all it would take to start.

To draw in the riders, you just have to put up the $$$. Look at what MEC has done. RBSR is also getting huge. The Pro-Am event at PIR. Point - put on a good show that is going to draw fans with a decent purse and riders are going to show up.

I agree that factory and factory-support teams are going to be bound to the current series, but what if someone offered up a lot of purse money to come race another series and over half of the 250 & 450 field decides to go race the new series? How long are the factory and factory support teams going to stick around?

Imagine how easy it would be to draw privateers in if a promoter could offer racing with no entry fees, a friendlier travel schedule, and higher guaranteed purse to make the night show.

If a promoter was offering $5,000 minimum to make the night show, how many would come?

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2/20/2019 7:06 AM

I would love a series that wasn't controlled or sponsored by a poisonous energy drink....

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Washed up mid pack B rider

2/20/2019 7:14 AM
Edited Date/Time: 2/20/2019 7:28 AM

mxtech1 wrote:

I have thought about this extensively in the past.

What you say makes a lot of sense. If a promoter could get lined up with a couple good investors and corporate sponsors, I absolutely feel it could be done. The biggest challenge, like you mentioned, are the expenses associated with each race. If you could cover those expenses and consistently put fans in seats, that's all it would take to start.

To draw in the riders, you just have to put up the $$$. Look at what MEC has done. RBSR is also getting huge. The Pro-Am event at PIR. Point - put on a good show that is going to draw fans with a decent purse and riders are going to show up.

I agree that factory and factory-support teams are going to be bound to the current series, but what if someone offered up a lot of purse money to come race another series and over half of the 250 & 450 field decides to go race the new series? How long are the factory and factory support teams going to stick around?

Imagine how easy it would be to draw privateers in if a promoter could offer racing with no entry fees, a friendlier travel schedule, and higher guaranteed purse to make the night show.

If a promoter was offering $5,000 minimum to make the night show, how many would come?

I think that may be a little unrealistic as only 2 riders get that now, 1st and 2nd and in the 450 class. Have had a hard time finding the 2019 numbers for the 250 class, it's possible that 1st in the 250 class may be at or above $5000, but not sure.

I think it is realistic to get closer to that number once you start including profit sharing though. It would be hard to judge profit sharing now, but being that the riders are the show, I do feel that profit sharing would be more enticing for the riders.

With all the riders that have retired over the past say 5 years and privateers I think you could get some good guys to show up with a good purse. I think even if it was limited to two classes maybe a 125 stock class and a 250f class similar to what we have now I think it could even be a stepping stone to SX. Make tracks that maybe aren't quite as gnarly as what the guys have now, but larger than the arenacross tracks.

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2/20/2019 7:19 AM

dickjackson170 wrote:

Zero point zero. Or less.

Photo
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2/20/2019 7:27 AM

dickjackson170 wrote:

Zero point zero. Or less.

slipdog wrote: Photo

I will admit that's good. Good laugh for the day.

wink

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2/20/2019 7:30 AM

mx 219 wrote:

As a businessman at heart and small time entrepreneur (at this point). I cant help but think that Feld is raking in the dough with sx. I have crunched numbers before and im sure i have missed expenses but there is no way Feld is not making money (i would believe very good money). If they werent they wouldnt keep doing it.

Is there a chance we see another series? Sure top riders on the factory teams may not race or the factories may not initially support it but if you cna do some good marketing, fair pricing, fair vendor pricing, BETTER PAYOUTS, PROFIT SHARING with the riders (even a little can go a long way). Let others pay to stream per race or series. Is it not possible that another series vould pop up.

Yes, i understand Feld has most larger stadiums under contract, but Feld doesnt have all stadiums under contract. If someone got creative enough i think it could happen. As matter of fact, i would love me a piece of that pie...maybe in time.

im all about this, being a business minded guy myself

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2/20/2019 7:53 AM
Edited Date/Time: 2/20/2019 7:56 AM

Bring back Mickey Thompson Ultracross. It's like supercross but without whoops, rhythm lanes or bowl turns.

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2/20/2019 8:06 AM

Never happen. OEM’s sit on AMA board. FIM Trumps AMA, OEM’s wont bite the hand that feeds them.

People just need to accept that it is what it is. Niche part of an extremely small segment of society.

Good read on the JAM Sports, AMA, Clear Channel, FIM fiasco from years ago:

https://motocrossactionmag.com/ask-the-mxperts-how-the-fim-got-control-of-american-supercross/

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2/20/2019 8:08 AM

mx 219 wrote:

As a businessman at heart and small time entrepreneur (at this point). I cant help but think that Feld is raking in the dough with sx. I have crunched numbers before and im sure i have missed expenses but there is no way Feld is not making money (i would believe very good money). If they werent they wouldnt keep doing it.

Is there a chance we see another series? Sure top riders on the factory teams may not race or the factories may not initially support it but if you cna do some good marketing, fair pricing, fair vendor pricing, BETTER PAYOUTS, PROFIT SHARING with the riders (even a little can go a long way). Let others pay to stream per race or series. Is it not possible that another series vould pop up.

Yes, i understand Feld has most larger stadiums under contract, but Feld doesnt have all stadiums under contract. If someone got creative enough i think it could happen. As matter of fact, i would love me a piece of that pie...maybe in time.

I think it would Be awsome Even if it was a B series and imo
Competition is good for any industry
But it would be tough to pull off especially for the first couple of years, but i dont think it would be impossible.
I consider myself entrepreneurial also and i can see being done but it would take some capitol and take a while to become profitable in my opinion

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2/20/2019 8:24 AM

Premix wrote:

Never happen. OEM’s sit on AMA board. FIM Trumps AMA, OEM’s wont bite the hand that feeds them.

People just need to accept that it is what it is. Niche part of an extremely small segment of society.

Good read on the JAM Sports, AMA, Clear Channel, FIM fiasco from years ago:

https://motocrossactionmag.com/ask-the-mxperts-how-the-fim-got-control-of-american-supercross/

Damn so in the last paragraph of that
It says Jam sports won a $90 million dollar lawsuit
So they made $90 million dollars without having any Races
Who outsmarted who ??
Where is that money now who gets it? Crazy world we live in sometimes

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2/20/2019 9:07 AM

As soon as someone with funding stumbles across the inside info here on vital that feld is clearing $10 MIL a race I expect there to be a new competing series promising to open the books and share the wealth

They will probably retain some Bernie as a "share the wealth" consultant.

Now back to reality,

The danger is that another entity might form a new series that overlaps the mx nationals, starting several weeks after feld wraps up and running through the summer in either 2nd tier stadiums or other facilities with supporting infrastructure, like car tracks.

Of course if feld got wind of it they would either lengthen their series or start a new one in that time frame. Feld has a big advantage in being able to lock down venues, sponsor relationships, and TV packages.

Either way I fear that the current mx nationals would be a casualty, eventually being pushed to a fall schedule and ending up the same as the trans-ama series.

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2/20/2019 10:40 AM

kinda of like pride,ufc, and whats the third one strike force?

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2/20/2019 10:45 AM
Edited Date/Time: 2/20/2019 10:47 AM

I dunno. If you could start with the outdoors, where you could get the venues, and add the undiserable items, like
that annual race in Sweden or wherever. 3 day camping, a rock show, maybe a Rythum Section event on Saturday night, ending with motocross on Sunday. A wet T-shirt contest here and there. Bring in the masses.

Maybe then. But to go head to head with either MX or SX, using their business model, I just don't see it.

How about The Flaming Man Nationals? No?

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2/20/2019 10:50 AM

JustMX wrote:

As soon as someone with funding stumbles across the inside info here on vital that feld is clearing $10 MIL a race I expect there to be a new competing series promising to open the books and share the wealth

They will probably retain some Bernie as a "share the wealth" consultant.

Now back to reality,

The danger is that another entity might form a new series that overlaps the mx nationals, starting several weeks after feld wraps up and running through the summer in either 2nd tier stadiums or other facilities with supporting infrastructure, like car tracks.

Of course if feld got wind of it they would either lengthen their series or start a new one in that time frame. Feld has a big advantage in being able to lock down venues, sponsor relationships, and TV packages.

Either way I fear that the current mx nationals would be a casualty, eventually being pushed to a fall schedule and ending up the same as the trans-ama series.

Definitely a Lot of Hurdles to overcome, im surprised someone hasn't put together a National fall winter pro series
With big enough prize money im sure riders would show up
Like a 5-6 round series in warm states obviously
And optional to ride im sure the Top Dawgs wouldnt run it but i think some would

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